"KARMA" Do You Pay It Much Mind ?
Shoshin
No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
"Thoughts manifest as words, words manifest as deeds, deeds develop into habits and habits harden into character, so watch the thought and its ways with care and let it spring from love born out of concern for all living beings!"
Karma is an intricate part of Buddhist philosophy... But it would seem amongst its followers there are slightly different takes on what it is and how it works...Even though most of us have read up on what karma/kamma is, we no doubt, still have our own personal take on it,(that is either through experiential knowledge or perhaps belief with no proof due to one having yet to connect the dots ) ... One things for sure it is not "fatalistic"
Samsara=Mind turned outwardly lost in its projection!
Nirvana=Mind turned inwardly recognising its true nature!
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
http://viewonbuddhism.org/karma.html
Here's a couple of short youtube clips on Karma
Alan Watts "Determinism and Karma"
"Bond to Past and Future"
just out of interest, in your everyday lives how often does 'karma' come to mind ?
How mindful are you of your actions ?
Comments
Wonderful quote.
I believe in karma beyond causality. In other words I think bad things happen to good people and innocents. I also believe in generating good ripples in unison with others of good will.
So I am not dependent on a justice karma, I choose to do good as well as I can because it is a good plan.
So my motivation is independent of the concept.
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I don't give it much mind. As the result of volitional action, karma is so pervasive in our experience, to give it a lot of thought is futile. Thinking about it, being mindful of it, niether negates or purifies karma. To act upon karma, in all but the most realized motivations, only geverates more karma. I believe that certain actions, with certain motivations can balance out or purify karma. But I'm not of the persuation to evaluate the merit or the karmic burden associated with my actions.
This is what I call the "new-world view" that's aligned with modern scientific causality (cause and effect). Karma is causality focused on an individual's thoughts, speech and actions and how those came about and will plant seeds for future actions. Most importantly it's about avoiding/deprecating the unskillful habits and performing/cultivating the skillful ones. However causality also transcends the realm of personal responsibility. Bad things can/do happen to people who haven't done anything to deserve them, as well as to those who have. That's why all we can worry about are our own actions!
The "old-world view" where someone born with a debilitating deformity is considered to have done something to deserve it (in a past life) just doesn't sit well with me; I think it's not only wrong but also ignorant, and is used to judge people and/or ignore their plight. Caste systems are perpetuated by such understandings (or misunderstandings).
This moved me deeply. Since the beginning of June I've been off work, first because of blowing out my knee, and then since more and more because I dread going back. That's one thing. So it's been a lot like a self-imposed 'retreat'. There's nowhere to go but here, and the longer I am 'here' the clearer 'here' gets.
Karma in the sense Watts talks about, and the second video too, has been completely overwhelming, but less so the longer I am 'here' in tight orbit. Anyway, was ready to 'hear' some new stuff and I did hear it. Especially about the past. Dragging the past along with me because it's been a consistent point of reference with which to cling to. In this 'retreat' from the world, I'm beginning to see the clinging as a kind of choice.
I'd go to a surgeon right this minute if the past could be cut off like a tumor. It's point of reference that can only perpetuate suffering.
Everything matters.
I have no control over my past actions and where they have led me, but if my future is in any way determined by my present actions, then my point of focus will be on making my choices as ethically skillful as I can.
Very true, but I have some control over the way I relate to my past. For example I used to suffer with guilt over my past (many alcoholics do) and it's hard to be in the present moment when you're dragging twenty years of remorse around with you.
So by dealing with my past, amending the harm I've created (creating good karma if you like), has helped treat the guilt and remorse problem that stem from my past actions.
I say karma for myself but I never tell anyone else that their bad karma is the reason for their suffering.
For example if I become ill I say karma in a positive way. It is positive because I have the opportunity to bring the negativity to the dharma practice of love and wisdom. I can work right on the source of suffering. I will say that I have only experienced some limited forms of illness, but I am confident that any situation I can at least bring to my meditation or mindfulness.
I prefer to engage in positive actions simply because they, hopefully, benefit others and not really because I'm overly concerned about racking up karma credits. That said, I do engage in, say recitation of the Vajrasattva mantra or Prostrations to the 35 Buddhas, but largely because those practices work very well for me in terms of mentally processing some of my more unskillful behaviors.
I don't speculate as to other people's karma. I've heard people say, "Oh, I look at kids with disabilities and wonder what sort of karma they're carrying from previous lives." Um, no. How about focusing on acting beneficially for that person instead of making assumptions about other their karma?
I think the most humane thing to do in this lifetime is to believe in karma. And try not to break the precept of "treating others how we want to be treated".
Nothing is beyond causality. When "bad" things happen to "good" people, it is because they were in the "wrong" place at the "wrong" time. That doesn't mean that being "good" is not going to get "good" results either.
Causes/conditions giving rise to their results. To me causality comes before intentionality(kamma).
When being mindful one is naturally 'aware' of ones thoughts words and deeds, and the practice of mindfulness is a big part of many member's daily lives, so indirectly I guess we have karma on our minds, just by being mindful...It would seem one can't have one without the other....
"Life is full of drama-created by ones karma-With diligent practice of the Dharma-life could become much calmer!"
Karma as causality is what I try to focus on. "Is this action helpful?" "If I put this plan to action, could anyone be harmed?" "Is this right speech?"... These are what matters.
I don't think someone born with a handicap or in other pain deserves it from a past life. If Karma works in such a way as to eventually lead to our awakening then a process built on punishment and reward should seem like fantasy.
We toss our coin and we take our chances. Wherever we land, we land. And we go from there.
Does the drop of rain that falls in the ocean have "better" karma than the one that lands on a dog turd in the gutter?
I've lost count of the number of times when the topic of Buddhism comes up and people (non Buddhists) have called Buddhism "Pessimistic" ( that we only see 'suffering') & "fatalistic" ( we can't change things, it's ours or others fate 'karma' ) ...
According to John Peacock (Associate Director of The Oxford Mindfulness Centre) the idea of Buddhism being pessimistic & fatalistic came about when translating the Pali cannon back in the eighteen hundreds, most if not all translations were carried out by 'Christian' missionaries who at the time thought that Christianity was the bee's knees of religions and when translating "Dukkha" the nearest English equivalent to the term 'Dukkha" they could come up with was "suffering"(This suited their superiority complex ie,"Christianity was all about loving and saving souls and Buddhism was all about 'suffering') ) and sadly it stuck-"lost in translation"...
Even though as Buddhists, many of us more often than not still use the term 'suffering' when talking about 'Dukkha',( most of us know that there's more to it than that) there' also been a gradual shift to more appropriate terms like "unsatisfactory" "dissatisfaction" ...
Hello, I am brand new here and am very grateful to be permitted into your discussion forum.
I believe the term "Karma" is Sanskrit for "action". I think that was mentioned in the wonderful video "Bond to Past and Future".
I think of Karma a lot. I think of "Dukkha" a lot too. There's pain, sorrow, grief, and despair everywhere. Sorry, I don't want to sound so depressing. As a result of how I view things, I'm trying to pray and meditate more (easier said than done) so I can be more compassionate and helpful. When I am kinder, good things happen.
I think the most interesting definition I've encountered for dukkha is a feeling of "ehhhh." That subtle, ambient feeling of things not being quite right.
I took care of that by drinking VERY heavily in my younger days and practically killing off any memories I have before the age of about 18.
I wouldn't recommend it though.
Unfortunately, I did explore that method.
To a large extent -- although this is an oversimplification -- I tend to look at karma a bit as The Golden Rule, and that is always something that I have relied on...sort of just second nature.
There are a couple of students whom I have contacted years after they were "wronged" at my school, and I apologized for my lack of action (this was before I was principal) to right the wrong. And that was based specifically on my view of karma.
@vinlyn You reap what you sow, so sow good seeds. It's all the same.
I think of karma as a rough tendency, not as an absolute rule. Friendly people tend to get a friendly response and blunt people a blunt one. That’s mainly because people often – and certainly on the long run – mirror the way that I treat them.
Another thing is that there is immediate reward and punishment. When I’m being friendly I probably make someone happy and the mirror neurons (the mudita) makes me happy instantly. When I do harm, I may not even see it, but instantly I’m suffering. If I could look into the mirror at the exact time of my outburst of anger, I would see a face full of pain.
If I carry around the memories (and I can’t really avoid that) the reward and punishment are repeated every time I remember what happened.
I don’t buy karma as a cosmic law though. There probably exist mechanism that work roughly in the direction but there are leaks and exceptions. The universe isn’t fair.
@zeniff,
The universe is neither fair nor unfair, the universe just "is"....And for the most part, life is just what we make of it....
Just "is" what?
Neither fair nor unfair...
Fair and unfair are subjective terms dependent on the concept of self and others.
I think...Just "is" what?....is pointing out the difference between the universe from the egos point of view, from the universe outside of the confines of the egos dream of it.
I also wondered if when Zenff said he doesn't buy karma as a cosmic law, he was actually meaning to saying that it is not the only cosmic law.
I was thinking here of the law of karma being only one law of the 5 laws of the universe.
I would say that was neither a fair nor unfair answer to the question @how
Sorry if I was unclear.
What I mean is that there is no law of karma. There are other psychological mechanisms that could be confused for it because they work roughly in the same direction.
There is something like a tendency to reciprocity in human behavior. The tendency is for instance exploited by companies who give small presents to potential customers. We tend to feel uncomfortable with an emotional debt.
Also it is emotionally rewarding to be helpful and friendly.
When I said the universe (imo) isn’t fair, I probably meant to say that it is indifferent.
I just thought that the law of karma is often perceived as a fundamental fairness built-in the universe; and I don't agree with such a general notion.
@how What are the other laws of the universe? Just wondering.
Yes I believe my actions, words and thoughts have a consequence, not that I always live up to that belief.
@ Nerima
Ah....you know Buddhists, always micro managing their observations through endless lists.
While I sometimes think that Buddhism's never ending lists of observations are often clear evidence of how difficult it is to get beyond our attachments to our own mentality, they are helpful here in explaining karma's place in the universe and why everything is not subject to Karma.
The laws, in one form, are:
(1) the laws of the physical world - that the world is not answerable to one's will;
(2) the laws of the organic world - that all things flow;
**(3) the laws of morality - that karma is inexorable; **
(4) the law of the Dharma - that evil is vanquished and good prevails;
(5) the laws of mind - that of the will to enlightenment.
Thank you @how.
For Buddhism, a list of five is a very short list.