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@SpinyNorman said:
I don't think any of really knows what we'd do in such extreme circumstances. That's the whole problem with these hypothetical scenarios.
@federica said:
Hey, I'm sorry - you're both right, but don't shoot the piano player, it was WanMin's fault!!
Curiosity killed the cat I guess, I take the karmic responsibility.
2
SarahTTime ... space ... joySouth Coast, UKVeteran
Anything that annoys you is teaching you patience. Anyone who abandons you is teaching you how to stand up on your own two feet. Anything that angers you is teaching you forgiveness and compassion. Anything that has power over you is teaching you how to take your power back. Anything you hate is teaching you unconditional love. Anything you fear is teaching you courage to overcome your fear. Anything you can't control is teaching you how to let go.
~ Jackson Kiddard.
4
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
I don't know about anybody else, but I'm sick n tired of being such a know-it-all!
@Sunspot5254 said:
I read a story today about a two year old in Independence Missouri who was a victim of child abuse. I won't go into details as they're very upsetting but how do you handle your hatred for these things? How do you find compassion for serial killers and those who rape children? How do you not cry about these things and keep them out of your mind? I can't find any reason to defend the character of someone evil. I have trouble with this and I'd appreciate any insight.
Luckily, Buddhism doesn't ask you to defend the character or the actions of someone who causes harm. But there are difficulties in confronting 'evil' in the world in terms of how we react to it. The first step is the non-doing of further harm, both to others and ourselves. And this means developing tools like compassion and equanimity.
As I mentioned in another thread, Ajahn Thanissaro describes compassion as "what goodwill feels when it encounters suffering: It wants the suffering to stop"; and it covers everything from the passive non-doing of harm to others to the active relieving of suffering. So in that sense, we're not limited to just loving and embracing someone who's causing harm. In addition, compassion is something we also direct towards ourselves, which means we seek to reduce and relieve our own suffering as well as that of others.
But people often forget that compassion is just one of many mental states we're encouraged to develop, each having its own use. If there's nothing we can do, if things are beyond our control or capacity to endure, for example, then we need to also develop equanimity—the even-mindedness that remains neutral in the face of experiences that we simply can't change.
I find a similar attitude in Christianity. Jesus says to "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you." Why? Perhaps because our love and our prayers and our actions will help make a difference in the world, help change the minds and hearts of those who would do us and others harm. But even if not, Fr. Michael said in one of his homilies that to hate something or someone is to bring that hate and darkness into your own heart. The same with things like anger, jealousy, and resentment. To hate is to pollute our own hearts and minds; to love is to purify them. Much like how the Buddha said:
Phenomena are preceded by the heart,
ruled by the heart,
made of the heart.
If you speak or act
with a corrupted heart,
then suffering follows you —
as the wheel of the cart,
the track of the ox
that pulls it.
Phenomena are preceded by the heart,
ruled by the heart,
made of the heart.
If you speak or act
with a calm, bright heart,
then happiness follows you,
like a shadow
that never leaves.
We may feel hate and disgust as a natural reaction, but we don't have to feed those emotions. So one way of dealing with these kinds of things is to realize that cultivating hate hurts us more than the person or thing we're hating. It may not be easy to develop love or compassion, but doing so is for our own sakes as much it is for others.
5
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@Jason said: "...But people often forget that compassion is just one of many mental states we're encouraged to develop, each having its own use. If there's nothing we can do, if things are beyond our control or capacity to endure, for example, then we need to also develop equanimity—the even-mindedness that remains neutral in the face of experiences that we simply can't change."
>
There was so much good stuff in your post, but this stood out to me as the heart of it. (*)
@Vanilli said:
Isn't aversion to suffering and problems somewhat the first step to freedom?
(Lobster puts on thinking cap)
Yes.
It is VERY difficult to have compassion for the KKK, child molesters or Hinayana Buddhists - we have to try as suggested, to know the racist, the misogynist and the dharma psychopath are suffering.
Not easy, indeed not required or advisable to associate with those we should have aversion towards.
Apart from the evil Hinayanists (probably a good place to start), hanging out with sangha and practitioners is preferable.
Simples.
NB: No Theravadins were harmed in the production of this post.
Comments
Indeed.
Curiosity killed the cat I guess, I take the karmic responsibility.
~ Jackson Kiddard.
I don't know about anybody else, but I'm sick n tired of being such a know-it-all!
I thought it was interesting how Alan Watts talked about feeling "hate"... he tries to explain that there are no wrong feelings, just wrong actions.
Luckily, Buddhism doesn't ask you to defend the character or the actions of someone who causes harm. But there are difficulties in confronting 'evil' in the world in terms of how we react to it. The first step is the non-doing of further harm, both to others and ourselves. And this means developing tools like compassion and equanimity.
As I mentioned in another thread, Ajahn Thanissaro describes compassion as "what goodwill feels when it encounters suffering: It wants the suffering to stop"; and it covers everything from the passive non-doing of harm to others to the active relieving of suffering. So in that sense, we're not limited to just loving and embracing someone who's causing harm. In addition, compassion is something we also direct towards ourselves, which means we seek to reduce and relieve our own suffering as well as that of others.
But people often forget that compassion is just one of many mental states we're encouraged to develop, each having its own use. If there's nothing we can do, if things are beyond our control or capacity to endure, for example, then we need to also develop equanimity—the even-mindedness that remains neutral in the face of experiences that we simply can't change.
I find a similar attitude in Christianity. Jesus says to "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you." Why? Perhaps because our love and our prayers and our actions will help make a difference in the world, help change the minds and hearts of those who would do us and others harm. But even if not, Fr. Michael said in one of his homilies that to hate something or someone is to bring that hate and darkness into your own heart. The same with things like anger, jealousy, and resentment. To hate is to pollute our own hearts and minds; to love is to purify them. Much like how the Buddha said:
We may feel hate and disgust as a natural reaction, but we don't have to feed those emotions. So one way of dealing with these kinds of things is to realize that cultivating hate hurts us more than the person or thing we're hating. It may not be easy to develop love or compassion, but doing so is for our own sakes as much it is for others.
>
There was so much good stuff in your post, but this stood out to me as the heart of it. (*)
It's constantly repeated that we all wish to be free from suffering and to have happiness in dharma teachings.
(Lobster puts on thinking cap)
Yes.
It is VERY difficult to have compassion for the KKK, child molesters or Hinayana Buddhists
- we have to try as suggested, to know the racist, the misogynist and the dharma psychopath are suffering.
Not easy, indeed not required or advisable to associate with those we should have aversion towards.
Apart from the evil Hinayanists (probably a good place to start), hanging out with sangha and practitioners is preferable.
Simples.
NB: No Theravadins were harmed in the production of this post.
samvega & pasada ≠ dosa