Joining a monastery, then leaving
dogandbanjo
New
Hello all,
I'm not sure where this question would best fit, but this category seemed to make sense. My apologies if it would have been better somewhere else.
So, I am hoping to get some perspectives on different schools of Buddhism and their respective attitudes toward staying in a monastery for some time, to learn about and practice Buddhism, but then leaving and going on to live your life outside of the monastery. Does that make sense? I read that in the Theravada tradition of Sri Lanka, for instance, once you become a monk it is frowned upon for you to leave the monastery. I would like to know what Theravada Buddhism in other countries teaches about this, as well as Zen, Tibetan, and any other tradition.
This question, by the way, is purely hypothetical, I'm not planning on joining a monastery anytime soon. But, I am curious about this. Maybe one day, who knows. It'd be nice to know what the options are.
Can someone enlighten me on this? Thanks, - dogandbanjo
Comments
There are some traditions where this is quite acceptable, and 'normal'.
It depends on which Tradition you prescribe to, obviously....
"A Bhikkhu or Bhikkhuni first ordains as a Samanera (novice) for a year or more. There are some conditions which must be met in order to be allowed into Buddhist monaticism, such as age between 7 to 70 and haven't broken sīla in some manners when undertaking them.[ Male novices often ordain at a very young age, but generally no younger than 8. Women usually choose to ordain as adults, since there is no expectation that they do so in childhood. Samaneras live according to the Ten Precepts, but are not responsible for living by the full set of monastic rules, vinaya. Higher ordination, conferring the status of a full Bhikkhu or Bhikkhuni, is usually given only to those 20 or older. Women monastics follow a similar progression, but are required to live as Samaneras for a longer period of time, typically five years. In Thailand, monks are considered well supported by the community, and in return the monks offer guidance in life and in the Dharma. They can give the Bhikkhu or Bhikkhuni vows back and return to non-monastic living. According to the vinaya, the sangha should not accept a former Bhikkhuni to retake these vows, and for Bhikkhu up to taking three or seven times in a life. Breaking some important vinaya in manners according to the Vinaya Pitaka would not be accepted for monasticism again for a lifetime. In Burma, Taiwan and Hong Kong, sometimes there are short term monastic ordination available to lay buddhists to take some vows may be for a week or a month. In Thailand such arrangements are currently available for male only."
From here:
All teach Buddhism. Theravada keeps it to the core principles of the Buddha's teachings. Zen is a combonation of Dao+Buddhism, Tibetan, what I was introduced to, is Buddhism+Bon+Hindu tantra
This man is a member of this page and last summer started the ordination process with the Bhavana society, which is Theravada. I believe (but am not positive) he has the option to leave openly at least at certain points. As was said above, often times you do it in steps. His page is a good read and might help you answer some questions. I believe he has somewhat regular access to the internet, so you can probably send him a message with questions as well. He's very kind and personable.
http://jayantha.tumblr.com/
This is also good and fairly short, a youtube documentary (about a half hour) about a Finnish man who gives up all his stuff to go be a monk. I think he had done it once before, and since this was made, he left again. I think you can find more of his story online if you search.
Thanks everybody. karasti's link is really interesting. I guess I could ask another, related question, can you live in a monastery without becoming a monk or novice? I guess I mean, live as a monk for some time, without taking a vow to become a monk? I mean at a typical monastery. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here.
With some of them yes, you can visit and stay for anything from a weekend to months. For a weekend you'd just be visiting (for example) but for a several week or month stay you need to apply. In fact, many of them require you to visit for a length of time before making a decision to ordain. Many monasteries have web pages that explain the process. I would really like to stay a few weeks at Thubten Chodron's monastery. As an example, this is what her abbey says about visits and residences: http://www.sravastiabbey.org/visiting/index.html
@dogandbanjo
Zen tends to face plant on this issue.
Zen tends to have a lot of writings saying how special ordination is to a practice.
Some portion of those teachings were functional in exhorting lazy monks who cared more for there own comfort than for others, to try harder and some portion was just simple self serving monastic empire building.
I have found that those who have become monks, look at those who wish to become monks very favorably as if it verifies their own livelihood.
Those who have become ordained who later decide to leave, are often looked upon unfavorably for how it appears to be a rejection of their own ordained livelihood.
Sadly, the responses from the ordained towards anyone returning to lay life often results in some form of shunning.
It is always good to question whether one is actually resolving ones attachments or just reforming them to better fit within a monastic life.
I went to a Zen monastery with the intention of staying at least six months. I lasted two. I am happy I went, even if I flunked out, because it underlined, for me, the fact that I was not monk-material, however much I admired Zen. I was in what I now think of as the drug-addict spiritual mode: If one's good, two's better ... meaning practice extra hard in circumstances that looked more conducive to an honest understanding.
Naturally, I quit with a lot of mixed emotion ... guilt, fear, sadness and who knows what else. But I kept up my practice and now ... now it's 35 years later and I am grateful for the experience I had. Sometimes I think that discovering what you can't or won't do is every bit as important as discovering what you can or will.
Best wishes to all.
Well, Jayantha is in seclusion right now. Try him in about a month, though, after March 6. His site has an email link, and a link to his facebook page, and if he is active on FB he might respond to a message there.
In Thailand's Theravadan temples, a majority of Thai men spend a few weeks (maybe 3) to a few months as monks, with every intention of returning to the lay life. Although the practice is declining, it's been traditional for centuries.
You could join any monastery and then leave [more lobster top tips available . . . ]
By the time you leave the monastery you won't care what they think.
Sadly, that was the last and only time dogandbanjo visited our forum, so I doubt any further input or discussion will ensue. Thanks for the comment though.