Being present at difficult state of mind
mockeymind
Veteran
My question in my mind recently was - how I could be mindful in the midst of difficulty, such as physical pain, anger, confusion and related state of mind. So far I was able to pass simple itch when meditating, i Just go back to breathing and the itch just simple goes away. With regards to pain, well I could again pay attention to may breath, but it only last of minutes, when I lost mindfulness of breath, the pain goes back. Same thing happens with anger and confusion.
Is there a mantra that can eliminate pain or discomfort while meditating? I don't know if I am doing it right. But I can't sustain the level of tranquility. My first mind reactivity is "I need to get out of this- or this not right" It is a trial and error, sometimes I win sometimes I lose. Can pain and mindfulness go together without losing it? Thanks.
Comments
@mockeymind
Meditation is for proceeding along the path towards the cessation of suffering, not the cessation of pain.
Pain is as inevitable as birth, old age, disease and death.
Just not being able to accept the pain that you feel will just add suffering to that pain..
One's ability to accept pain for what it is, is no less of a practice than learning how to accept anything that is uncomfortable. I personally think that it largely depends on how much of a priority you make of that meditation over anything else in your life.
There are concentration exercises that can have you focus on something else to the degree that the pain becomes un noticed but that is definitely not meditation.
There are also spiritual breakthroughs in meditative understanding that can allow for a deep enough acceptance of the pain itself to makes its occurrence be little more of an interesting observation.
It is all just a work in progress.
@how What noticed is that once I pay attention to the breath again- it is somehow more manageable -but it doesn't last long - like 5 mins but not longer. Hope to do progress by accepting unpleasant as they are. I do half lotus as posture, I will take a look on right sitting positions. Thanks for the advice.
@Mockeymind
I think you could consider seeing/hearing/smelling/tasting/feeling & thinking about any pain arising to be just as much a part of your meditation as anything else.
Feelings of fear and a lack of acceptance for where you are just more phenomena to observe.
Few things can stifle a meditation practice like thinking that the meditation practice should be something......
but the other question I have is what is this pain from?
Is this pain related to posture?
I may have missed that part but why do you feel pain during your meditation?
Are you sitting in an uncomfortable position?
Basics: look for a position that works for you.
Yes. If it hurts, you're doing it wrong.
I never sit in lotus or even half - lotus. Sometimes even sitting with my legs in any folded position gives me the most painful cramps.
If it feels good, do it.
When in doubt (pain) - don't.
Where is it written that you must endure this?
Here is a two minute guide for comfortable floor sitting
if you see the video to its termination, there are also other videos on the same subject you can select to watch.
The bottom line is this: Do what works for you.
My take is that if meditation's role is simply to feel better or feel worse, we could all just take a pill and have done with it. But if subtracting the bad stuff and adding the good stuff hasn't worked very well prior to taking up meditation, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate the interest in meditation at all. Is it just a feel-good pastime, a way of subjugating what is painful or unpleasant? Is it some relaxing, serene pose where everyone turns out smooth and bland as a strand of cooked spaghetti? If doing what you want didn't pan out very well in the past, is there some evidence that it will work out in the future?
I'm sorry, but pain hurts. That's why we have tears and the perfectly acceptable word "ouch." But, as pointed out above, pain is part of life. The suffering -- the desire for relief and escape -- is optional. If doing anything you want doesn't work and not doing anything you want also doesn't work, I think it is reasonable to ask meditation what works. Will it hurt and will it be confusing and will there be moments of acute discomfort or scrumptious understanding? Sure. Will there be those who see nothing but masochism in a disciplined meditative effort? Sure. Will I wonder if I'm out of my cotton-pickin' mind? You bet.
But somehow the pain anyone might seek relief from needs to be integrated into the whole-lifeness of practice. And to my mind meditation is useful in this regard. No more pill-popping serenity -- meditation addresses the whole ball of wax. Making nice won't improve it just as making unkind won't demean it. Trying to turn it into a smorgasbord where you pick the good stuff and duck the bad ... well, try it if you insist but don't be surprised if pill-popping doesn't offer a better alternative.
For my money, the blessing of having a stylized, formatted way is useful. I am referring to the literal, physical posture of sitting. Sit when things are neat as a pin. Sit when they are more messy than an Oklahoma tornado. This is the go-to stuff, the stuff that works when nothing else works. How does it work? I haven't got a clue but I do know it has nothing to do with "getting it right" or "doing it wrong;" nothing to do with relief and relaxation; nothing to do with subtracting one thing or adding another; nothing to do with blessings and curses. If you want to feel good, take a pill. If you want to straighten things out, find a practice and practice it. Will there be pain? Count on it. Will there be pleasure? Count on it. Discipline means doing what no one much wants to do.
Sit anyway.
For once, don't cop out.
You deserve it.
Great post @genkaku. Many thanks. Meditation is a discipline, that becomes a habit. It polishes our sharp edges but creates new sharp insights. Exposes our hypocrisy. Makes us face life as is. Very well said ... wish I was as eloquent ...
It took me quite a few years before I could manage to sit 'comfortably' in the quarter lotus position with no pain...
Nowadays when doing the daily practice ( between 20 & 40 minutes twice a day) I either sit quarter lotus or Burmese style....
The longest I've sat was in the Burmese style was for just under two hours before slight pain started to creep in...this was when sitting in the front row listening to a Dharma talk, not so much meditation, so I could gently rock the body back and forth every now and again easing the pressure on the leg muscles....
There are some people who can sit quite comfortably in the full lotus position for hours on end...(And they actually look quite comfortable doing so )
Like anything worth doing "Practice makes perfect" It won't happen over night but it will happen..
"I want it all, I want it all and I want it now" Queen but "you can't always get what you want" Stones
Thanks for sharing. I found a better sitting position using zafu/zabuton instead of carpet. The pain is gone and can breath with the whole body. I meditate 20-30 mins when I wake up and before sleeping.
In Spinyana the use of comfy chairs is encouraged.