sympathy and empathy

genkaku

Woke up this morning noodling about "empathy" and stuck it on my blog ... and now I'm sticking that on here just FWIW.

Not to get into a pissing contest about it, but I woke up this morning thinking that "empathy" is one of those tales people tell themselves that subtly elevate their standing and simultaneously fall short of accuracy. This is not to say there isn't a potentially-benevolent social fallout, since taking others into consideration really does make life a little less isolated or grim.... [complete post]

What's your take?

DairyLama

Most of us face similar challenges and problems in our lives, so empathy shouldn't be that difficult or unusual, at least with a little imagination. Perhaps the problem is sometimes a reluctance to share another's suffering because it reminds us of our own?

lobster

Empathy is about recognition and solidarity of similar not identical experiences.

For example I have just become entranced at how water vapour on my screen is refracting (if that is right?) into rainbow coloured minute jewels. Now some might be delighted, some 'yeah whatever' and so on.

The other day water droplets on a tree breaking up the sun could not be shared with my sister who was battling inner demons at the time. Just getting her to go for a walk, communicate, live outside her reality bubble is difficult. However it can be recognised, acknowledged, treated sympathetically and not dismissed as [insert label].

So it not about elavating us but elevating others - oops touch of the Mahayana there ...

genkaku

empathy shouldn't be that difficult or unusual, at least with a little imagination.

@SpinyNorman -- It's the imagination that is brought to bear that interests me. How often do imaginings line up with facts in anyone's life? And if the answer is "infrequently" or "close but never perfectly" then isn't it worth acknowledging that a good social lubricant (I try to see your feelings and difficulties), is not the same as saying I can actually know your state? Surely I can sympathize. But "empathize?"

Of possible relevance, here is Merriam Webster on "empathy:"

: the feeling [could we insert "imagining?"] that you understand and share another person's experiences and emotions

the ability to share someone else's feelings

federica

This is quoted directly from 'Dictionary.com:

What is the difference between empathy and sympathy?

Both empathy and sympathy are feelings concerning other people.

Sympathy is literally 'feeling with' - compassion for or commiseration with another person.
Empathy, by contrast, is literally 'feeling into' - the ability to project one's personality into another person and more fully understand that person.

Sympathy derives from Latin and Greek words meaning 'having a fellow feeling'.
The term empathy originated in psychology (translation of a German term, c. 1903) and has >now come to mean the ability to imagine or project oneself into another person's position and >experience all the sensations involved in that position.
You feel empathy when you've "been there", and sympathy when you haven't.

Examples: We felt sympathy for the team members who tried hard but were not appreciated.
We felt empathy for children with asthma because their parents won't remove pets from the household.

David

Sympathy - What women feel when seeing a man get hit in the balls or what a man feels when a woman is in labor.

Empathy - What a man feels when seeing a man get hit in the balls or what a woman feels when another woman is in labor.

how

@genkaku
Noodling back atcha

Empathy is only limited by our sense of separation from anything else (the human condition).

If the process of thought about empathy has to overcome the underlying inertia of such adversarial beliefs, then ones understanding of empathy is likely to be remain a theoretical construct.

If the process of thought about empathy is represented by ones meditative understanding that all separations between self and other are an illusion, then empathy simply manifests as the truth of that practice.

I think this is really about allowing your process of thought to be a disciple of your practice
and not the other way round.

karasti

Like @how said, I think meditation/practice can get us there. On an immediate level, it seems if you have experienced related things in life, it is possible to be empathetic. I have never been homeless, but I have in the past struggled to pay rent and bills. I can imagine it a step farther. I think without practice it would be hard for a rich person who never worries about paying bills (and likely has someone who does it for them so they might be unaware of what stuff even costs) to get to that same level because of their complete lack of experience in that area, generally speaking. I think without practice, putting ourselves in the shoes of others who are very different can be hard. I can have sympathy for the super rich based on logic and things I have read about their suffering. And Ican practice so I can develop empathy. But I don't think it is there naturally because of the separation like @how said.Rather it is there, but we are not connected too it until we can connection with that love and compassion.

Bringing rebirth in, I wonder if "past life" experiences influence this at all. I find myself having an easier time, even amongst the most ignorant of humans, to have empathy or even sympathy. Other types of ignorant people it's much harder even though the logic is there. It makes me wonder why. How is it I can have sympathy for even terrorists and torturers but not Donald Trump?

DairyLama

@genkaku said: @SpinyNorman -- It's the imagination that is brought to bear that interests me. How often do imaginings line up with facts in anyone's life? And if the answer is "infrequently" or "close but never perfectly" then isn't it worth acknowledging that a good social lubricant (I try to see your feelings and difficulties), is not the same as saying I can actually know your state? Surely I can sympathize. But "empathize?"

I think the imagination element is related to putting yourself in somebody else's situation, getting a better idea of what the experience is like for them.

Bunks

On a slightly different note, this link is to a talk given by Ven Jampa at Sravasti Abbey about the benefits of cultivating compassion as opposed to empathy.

Bunks

deleted

Shoshin

"sympathy and empathy"
Both are important and beneficial when naturally expressed towards those in need but.....

No one benefits when this happens....I guess this is why we are practising the Dharma to be free from being puppets on emotion's strings

techie

Sympathy is quite shallow, many worldly people do that by donating to charity. Empathy is profound, like Jesus healing the leper or Mother Teresa hugging the sick. These two are the best examples of empathy - they 'felt' the pain of others and didn't merely sympathize as outsiders.

lobster

@SpinyNorman said:
I think the imagination element is related to putting yourself in somebody else's situation, getting a better idea of what the experience is like for them.

I also find @federica dictionary defining useful.

Clearly there is an element of association and processing. We do not 'become' the person we relate to.

The wider our experience, the greater our sensitivity and the more we engage a dispassionate imagination, the more empathy and sympathy we truly find ...

yagr

@Bunks said:
On a slightly different note, this link is to a talk given by Ven Jampa at Sravasti Abbey about the benefits of cultivating compassion as opposed to empathy.

This is the closest monastery to my home.

yagr

@lobster said:

@SpinyNorman said:
I think the imagination element is related to putting yourself in somebody else's situation, getting a better idea of what the experience is like for them.

I also find @federica dictionary defining useful.

Clearly there is an element of association and processing. We do not 'become' the person we relate to.

The wider our experience, the greater our sensitivity and the more we engage a dispassionate imagination, the more empathy and sympathy we truly find ...

I did not want to erase anything because it was all so good, but I wanted to draw attention to the bolded part and comment on it. Perhaps we do not 'become' the person we relate to, but we can cease to be ourselves for that moment - letting go of our beliefs, feelings, and thoughts and just be - with them.

Practicing empathy is the most effective way I know to simultaneously lose myself and connect. Reading that - it makes no sense but I can't find words that are true that do.

Bunks

@yagr said:

@Bunks said:
On a slightly different note, this link is to a talk given by Ven Jampa at Sravasti Abbey about the benefits of cultivating compassion as opposed to empathy.

This is the closest monastery to my home.

Lucky you! I am jealous....

yagr

@Bunks said:
Lucky you! I am jealous....

It is about forty miles away. There is five wooded acres for sale next to it, with a pond on it for sale. It is my wife and my dream that my social security disability will come through and we'll be able to purchase it with the lump sum. I've mentioned here before that we want to build our home there and grow a garden for ourselves and donate the excess to a nearby monastery. This was the one.

how

@yagr

I would suggest that losing oneself is actually the letting go of the delusion that one expression of sentience is ever innately separate from any other.
Empathy is just the manifestation of this truth.