Is Zen nonsense?
lobster
Crusty Veteran
The importance of nonsense hardly can be overstated. The more clearly we experience something as 'nonsense,' the more clearly we are experiencing the boundaries of our self-imposed cognitive structures. 'Nonsense' is that which does not fit into the prearranged patterns which we have superimposed on reality. There is no such thing as 'nonsense' apart from a judgemental intellect which calls it that.
http://zennist.typepad.com/zenfiles/2016/01/is-zen-nonsense.html
Can it be true? [lobster faints and dials for a white van)
Now that I have joined the righteous Theravada school of Dharma (Buddha be praised), will I have to take up critical thinking?
For example I don't even know the difference between kenosis and emptiness.
Emptiness and kenosis comparison
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha135.htm
Emptiness is not awakening, tsk tsk. Back to the beginners class for lobster.
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/articles/emptiness-in-theravada-buddhism/
Should I take up knitting instead, or is that just nonsense?
Comments
Are "nonsense" and "not-nonsense" arbitrary conceptions?
Seems like it fits!
Just a warning guys:
Nonsense and crazy wisdom do not equate with gibbering and mental health issues. I would suggest they are skilfull means in the hands of the zeniths and saintly dharma loons.
We might consider conventional sanity as wasteful, ignorant and suffering intensive and that is where most of need to ground ourself in ...
This Middle Way sure is confusing this cructacean ...
Is zen nonsense?
1). Yes.
2). No.
3). Knitting.
4). Zen is a word.
5). All of the above.
6). None of the above.
I just mean that when you're dreaming, it doesn't really matter what is nonsense and what is not.
In dream world, it's whatever floats your boat. Zen just points out that dream. Zen, itself, is still of the dream.
Our ego/ identity or selfish self are innate empire builders.
They successfully expropriate anything that we crave, reject or ignore.
What we hold up as sacred often becomes too holy to be honestly examined
Zen's nonsense is just a means of exploring that possibility.
Hee. Zen is non-sense of course. Except for when it's not.
To say something "makes sense" is to say it fits into our predictions of how the world and people in it should behave. It's the old definition of sense as "what is reasonable".
Zen does not "make sense". It is non-sense. It tries with mixed success to drag your mind away from its comfort zone of reasoning. Show me the sound of one hand clapping. Say what? That doesn't make sense. That's non-sense. It's also a deep statement about your assumptions. What is sound? It's what your ears tell your mind. Suppose it tells your mind there is nothing to hear. Can't silence also be a sound? And down the rabbit hole we go, and somewhere within you smile and stick your hand out.
You have heard the sound of one hand clapping. It's the sound of silence.
It's all pure non-sense. A hundred precent nonsense. Except for when it makes sense, of course. What's the difference between sense and nonsense?
The birds fight over the seeds I leave out for them in the snow today.
Zen is whatever Zen wants to be or not to be...That is the question...(and I guess answer too)
Mu!
Being unreasonable in reasonable quantities [lobster puts up guilty claw] is part of my nonsense, nothing too zen there.
Part of the value of aware discordance is to short circuit our usual modes of ignorance.
http://www.zengardner.com/wisdom-dr-seuss/
As rational creatures, we use 'logic' to make sense of life. That doesn't mean life is logical. Life is not logical or illogical, as these things only apply to beings with will and desire. Life is life.
Do not try to become anything.
Do not make yourself into anything.
Do not be a meditator.
Do not become enlightened.
When you sit, let it be.
When you walk, let it be.
Grasp at nothing.
Resist nothing.
~ Ajahn Chah ~
The Thai Forest tradition is about as far from Zen as you can get, yet at its core is the same paradox as Zen teaches. The greatest truths can only be expressed as nonsense. To strive with all your might to do nothing. To learn that there is nothing new to learn. Isn't it wonderful?
EVERYTHING is non-sense. Just as everything is Sense.
Eh ma ho ... as I might have said if Tibetan ...
That Ajahn Chah sure is the Dharma ChahChahCha ...
No dancing amongst the precept keepers ...
The Thai Forest is actually very close to Zen in approach, with a strong emphasis on here-and-now practice. Ajahn Chah was very Zen, he also talked regularly about embracing uncertainty, basically the same as don't-know mind in Zen.
Still sect-bashing? Your sarcasm is most unappealing.
@seeker242 With that Diamond Sutra quote, you've reminded me that I'm a rank beginner. There are several advanced sutras I need to study with a qualified teacher, in order to make sense of them and progress. Thanks for the reminder.
Take a couple of liters of ice cream, Spiny, and chill. The lobster is just being the lobster.
The last time I heard one of the Zen "masters" answered the question,"What is enlightenment" with "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" My one-handed friend got a mite testy.
As for the question, " Is Zen nonsense?", I will not throw my lit match into that dry grass.
Have fun, y'all.