Merits/demerits

upekka

we get the knowledge of the world through our sense bases

for example, if our eyes see the writing of this post, we can say 'eyes see the form with the help of the consciousness' and there is 'seeing'

it says, if we know there is just 'seeing' then there is no demerits or merits

but

we can not avoid getting know that there is writing and there is a meaning of those writing because we have learnt english and we know how to read and the meaning of words

now we have gone beyond 'seeing'

what do you think about the 'gone beyond seeing'

is there any demerits in knowing beyond 'seeing'?

genkaku

Crime and punishment, better and worse, merit and demerit: The habits are strong, perhaps, but a determined practice lays them to rest. Pay attention, take responsibility and the need for some sort of virtuous or profound understanding dwindles. "Answers" are just rephrased questions. Relax.

lobster

@genkaku said:
Relax.

Good plan.

Do the best you can. 'Don't have a cow!'

how

@upekka

The problem with approaching one sense gate in isolation from all of the others, when talking about merits & demerits, is that very act of isolating one sense gate from the others, in itself, sets up the potential conditions for pandering to our conditioned impulses.

What is going on in our meditation when one sense gate dominates over the others?
What allows the obfuscation of any other sense gate info that is also incoming?
How do the machinations of our own conditioning exert control over that information?

Personally I find more experiential answers when that question gets referenced to what allows for equinimity compared to what doesn't, instead merits and demerits.

grackle

@upekka. Going beyond seeing is to enter the realm of discrimination/evaluation which certainly can cause us to act in such a way to produce merit/demerit. I think that is why the aware so often remain silent.

upekka

@grackle said:
@upekka. Going beyond seeing is to enter the realm of discrimination/evaluation which certainly can cause us to act in such a way to produce merit/demerit. I think that is why the aware so often remain silent.

do you see the depth (gravity) in your answer?

if so, it means you are on .....................

pegembara

@upekka said:
we get the knowledge of the world through our sense bases

for example, if our eyes see the writing of this post, we can say 'eyes see the form with the help of the consciousness' and there is 'seeing'

it says, if we know there is just 'seeing' then there is no demerits or merits

In the seeing just the seen.

but

we can not avoid getting know that there is writing and there is a meaning of those writing because we have learnt english and we know how to read and the meaning of words

>
Then we add things on to experience. Mine, yours, good, bad etc.

The poison apple is eaten and then came the knowledge of "good and evil". We get thrown out from the garden of Eden and became "mortal". Oops, I did it again - adding on stories.

now we have gone beyond 'seeing'

what do you think about the 'gone beyond seeing'

is there any demerits in knowing beyond 'seeing'?

Jeroen

Certainly I find it interesting what happens in reading. In seeing the real world, one imposes a certain judgments on what one sees. 'Pear' is fruit, edible, good, 'wasp' is insect, stings, bad. But when you read, your mind is absorbing knowledge at a higher level. A self-help book may turn into useful concepts. But the reverse can also happen, a novel can turn into visions of castles, romantic heroes, an idealised dream where you work directly with the values of myths and ones preconceptions.

upekka

@pegembara said:

@upekka said

now we have gone beyond 'seeing'

what do you think about the 'gone beyond seeing'

is there any demerits in knowing beyond 'seeing'?

@pegembara you haven't said anything about 'above'

it is much appreciated whatever it is

namarupa

I believe one can demerit oneself by your example if say for example one reads something false, then believes it without questioning it, or reads something that leads to increase further craving and attachment.

lobster

"Answers" are just rephrased questions.

Who would have thought ... better still ... when do we start ...

pegembara

@upekka said:

@pegembara said:

@upekka said

now we have gone beyond 'seeing'

what do you think about the 'gone beyond seeing'

is there any demerits in knowing beyond 'seeing'?

@pegembara you haven't said anything about 'above'

it is much appreciated whatever it is

You said =
if we know there is just 'seeing' then there is no demerits or merits

Going beyond seeing, if I understand you, is adding things onto seeing. By going beyond seeing, you add on things like merit and demerit.

So the advice to Bahiya in the seeing just the seen is to transcend merit/demerit or kamma.

In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.than.html