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I suppose some people do that, but most people I know at least are as involved as they can be which differs based on where you live. But there are a lot of problems with only blaming the people, because in a lot of countries, it's an illusion that citizens have a lot of control of what happens. Our 2 major parties are basically nothing but privately run corporations and people have little control over what those parties do, and we can only vote or not vote for the choices they offer us. Locally we have a lot more control. Nationally, not so much. But at least we have the right to vote for who we want, and then complain about the result without the government jailing us for not supporting the right guy.
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@karasti said:
Locally we have a lot more control. Nationally, not so much. But at least we have the right to vote for who we want, and then complain about the result without the government jailing us for not supporting the right guy.
Very well said, I think. At least locally you can influence your politicians, and so on. But nationally you are expected to attach yourself to "the group" without having much input into what is actually done.
I wonder what it would be like to not have a national government. Of course, they take taxes from everyone and then use the money all around the country, doled our to states for many things. What would the US look like if the states only support themselves? If the money that went to the federal government went to the individual states, what would things look like? I'm not saying it would work, or work well but just something I'm thinking about this morning. How it would change various states and so on.
I live in a small community so our resources are fewer than urban areas. But we also do a pretty good job supporting families who run into rough spots and everyone kind of takes turns needing support or offering support. We have some wealthy people who maintain summer cabins here, and even they invest in our community by giving money to school sports programs and whatever. It's just interesting to note the differences where you live in a smaller locale and you know everyone. So that shared connection is much more present even when we don't agree on "the issues." No one, no matter their religion or political views, thinks twice about helping a family who needs it. If we HAD to be better at supporting our communities, maybe we'd do a better job of it.
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
That's so American... I live in the Netherlands, and it's a small country, about one and a half times the size of Massachussets with about three times as many people living on it. The whole country is explored, allocated and used, and carefully looked after. Communities overlap and live on eachother's doorstep, and the densely populated west of the country where I live is like a series of interconnected towns and villages.
But it has a feeling of tolerance, of hearty openness, of shared coziness that we will try and make it all work together. We have to, and we have to give eachother space to do the things that need to be done. And that includes looking after the rivers, the dikes and the coasts - since more than half the country is below sea level. It is no wonder that there is a strong social fabric in this place, although it is more a question of live and let live, than always being on eachother's lips.
Privacy is respected and valued, survival is easy, the social systems managed by the government take care of the weak and needy, and nobody has to suffer. Governments are all coalition, which has good and bad sides.
@Kerome a friend of mine moved to Denmark and goes frequently to the Netherlands and loves it She has nothing but great things to say.
I live in a very rural area, so not like most Americans live. We look after each other pretty well but to go along with that, everyone is nosy and knows everyone's business,and think it's important to do so, lol. The are pros and cons to every imaginable living situation, as well as government make up and everything else. A lot of our lack of ability to "live and let live" is thanks to religion and puritanical ideas we brought with us back in the day. I wish I knew what the answer was to get others to just let people live their lives. But then again, that isn't how our country as a whole operates on a global scale, is it? How can the people live that way if sticking our noses in everyone's business is how our country manages it's affairs?
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
It's a culture and values thing... People are taught a certain attitude by their parents and teachers and social environment, and they don't question it. In fact it forms their cultural operating system, the rules by which they decide what to do.
Buddhism is one way to change things. Even if it's something as simple as no longer killing things, where effort you wouldn't have thought twice about swatting a mosquito. On the grand scale of the operating system, that's not such a big change, but through many such all done with conscious awareness one might be able to free oneself from conditioning.
There are some interesting counter-culture thought movements out there, like David Icke or the whole set of matrix memes on the Internet. They're mostly very cooky, but many contain elements of the truth as well.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Comments
not true.
I suppose some people do that, but most people I know at least are as involved as they can be which differs based on where you live. But there are a lot of problems with only blaming the people, because in a lot of countries, it's an illusion that citizens have a lot of control of what happens. Our 2 major parties are basically nothing but privately run corporations and people have little control over what those parties do, and we can only vote or not vote for the choices they offer us. Locally we have a lot more control. Nationally, not so much. But at least we have the right to vote for who we want, and then complain about the result without the government jailing us for not supporting the right guy.
Very well said, I think. At least locally you can influence your politicians, and so on. But nationally you are expected to attach yourself to "the group" without having much input into what is actually done.
The idea that the individual citizen has an effect on the actual result of governmental decisions is pretty naive imo... maybe I'm just jaded!!!
I wonder what it would be like to not have a national government. Of course, they take taxes from everyone and then use the money all around the country, doled our to states for many things. What would the US look like if the states only support themselves? If the money that went to the federal government went to the individual states, what would things look like? I'm not saying it would work, or work well but just something I'm thinking about this morning. How it would change various states and so on.
I live in a small community so our resources are fewer than urban areas. But we also do a pretty good job supporting families who run into rough spots and everyone kind of takes turns needing support or offering support. We have some wealthy people who maintain summer cabins here, and even they invest in our community by giving money to school sports programs and whatever. It's just interesting to note the differences where you live in a smaller locale and you know everyone. So that shared connection is much more present even when we don't agree on "the issues." No one, no matter their religion or political views, thinks twice about helping a family who needs it. If we HAD to be better at supporting our communities, maybe we'd do a better job of it.
That's so American... I live in the Netherlands, and it's a small country, about one and a half times the size of Massachussets with about three times as many people living on it. The whole country is explored, allocated and used, and carefully looked after. Communities overlap and live on eachother's doorstep, and the densely populated west of the country where I live is like a series of interconnected towns and villages.
But it has a feeling of tolerance, of hearty openness, of shared coziness that we will try and make it all work together. We have to, and we have to give eachother space to do the things that need to be done. And that includes looking after the rivers, the dikes and the coasts - since more than half the country is below sea level. It is no wonder that there is a strong social fabric in this place, although it is more a question of live and let live, than always being on eachother's lips.
Privacy is respected and valued, survival is easy, the social systems managed by the government take care of the weak and needy, and nobody has to suffer. Governments are all coalition, which has good and bad sides.
@Kerome a friend of mine moved to Denmark and goes frequently to the Netherlands and loves it
She has nothing but great things to say.
I live in a very rural area, so not like most Americans live. We look after each other pretty well but to go along with that, everyone is nosy and knows everyone's business,and think it's important to do so, lol. The are pros and cons to every imaginable living situation, as well as government make up and everything else. A lot of our lack of ability to "live and let live" is thanks to religion and puritanical ideas we brought with us back in the day. I wish I knew what the answer was to get others to just let people live their lives. But then again, that isn't how our country as a whole operates on a global scale, is it? How can the people live that way if sticking our noses in everyone's business is how our country manages it's affairs?
It's a culture and values thing... People are taught a certain attitude by their parents and teachers and social environment, and they don't question it. In fact it forms their cultural operating system, the rules by which they decide what to do.
Buddhism is one way to change things. Even if it's something as simple as no longer killing things, where effort you wouldn't have thought twice about swatting a mosquito. On the grand scale of the operating system, that's not such a big change, but through many such all done with conscious awareness one might be able to free oneself from conditioning.
There are some interesting counter-culture thought movements out there, like David Icke or the whole set of matrix memes on the Internet. They're mostly very cooky, but many contain elements of the truth as well.