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What a weird world we live in that these cumbersome buearacractic hoops must be jumped through to feel safe and sound or whatever this is. Lol. Can you tell that i don't work in corporate?
@Bunks it would seen, the more you have responded to the posts, the bigger the picture is presenting itself...Ie, it has been a consistent issue, something that's been ongoing for a long time....
lets just hope that the words of advice are not painting an even darker picture of this sentient being in your mind's eye...
The thing about Buddhism, is when it comes to situations like the one you now face it's different strokes for different folks that is, not one cap fits all...
So I repeat @Bunks do what "you" feel is the right thing to do...and if your gut feeling is telling you to comply, then do and be done with it...
After all....What's the worse thing that can happen ? (think Shantideva's approach to problems )
There's no such thing as a bad person, only bad behaviour...and this is changing all the time...
I know from your posts in the past, that you don't go into things emotional guns blazing, you take time to consider all the options and possibilities...Which is a good trait to have @Bunks
Metta
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@karasti said:
That said, compassion is always called for, and having compassion for someone is NOT enabling them. That would be idiot compassion and they are not the same thing. But having compassion, like everything else, needs balance.
Things like this always make me wonder about the extent to which psychology and Buddhism complement eachother. A phrase like 'enabling' is very much in the psychological lexicon, while here it shows a new light on the Buddhist virtue of compassion. I think studying the two side-by-side might be very revealing about the human condition.
@Shoshin said: @Bunks it would seen, the more you have responded to the posts, the bigger the picture is presenting itself...Ie, it has been a consistent issue, something that's been ongoing for a long time....
lets just hope that the words of advice are not painting an even darker picture of this sentient being in your mind's eye...
The thing about Buddhism, is when it comes to situations like the one you now face it's different strokes for different folks that is, not one cap fits all...
So I repeat @Bunks do what "you" feel is the right thing to do...and if your gut feeling is telling you to comply, then do and be done with it...
After all....What's the worse thing that can happen ? (think Shantideva's approach to problems )
There's no such thing as a bad person, only bad behaviour...and this is changing all the time...
I know from your posts in the past, that you don't go into things emotional guns blazing, you take time to consider all the options and possibilities...Which is a good trait to have @Bunks
This has been difficult for me as I work relatively closely with this guy and (for the most part) he is ok.
However, he has a long history of aggressive outbursts and intimidating / bullying behaviour.
Another concern here is that he has recently directed this toward some new staff members. For one reason or another, we have had some issues with staff retention so do not want to lose these guys because they're good.
To simplify it by saying "ignore his behaviour or you might create bad karma for yourself" is too simple a response. There are heaps of factors at play here and none of us can predict the karmic effects of my actions........
Hey @Bunks I'm not saying one should "ignore" this person's bad behaviour, far from it, but it is important (from a Buddhist perspective) to understand that we all have the ability to change our ways...some just take a little longer than others to do so...
Whatever you do, do it with honesty, integrity and "compassion". trying to keep in mind the "ok" qualities that you have just mentioned...
This has been difficult for me as I work relatively closely with this guy and (for the most part) he is ok.
And last be not least.... "This 'event' too shall pass!" ......making room for another....
Metta
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited August 2016
Many, many years ago, when I was a fresh, innocent, naive and simple little thing, (stop laughing!) still at school but just discovering the joys of having a job and earning my own money as a weekend-staff member, I began my life on the "life's-a-grind" wheel working at 'Boots' a very well-known national, High-street Chemist, in the UK.
Bear in mind we're talking early 1970's here. The workplace then was very different. People at that time were still not awake to Racial prejudice, sexual harassment or Bullying in the workplace.
Many of the Laws in place today, did not exist then, or were not implemented in appropriate and timely ways, so there was probably a lot going on which today would have made a crow blush.
I worked with one particularly bitter, nasty and spiteful woman, who took a dislike to me, but in such a way that others gradually became aware, and were witness to. Her vitriol became more and more overt and public, and her nastiness was evident. Other colleagues at work were quick to reassure me and comfort me about her attitude, and even though it felt nice to have them on my side, her nasty gibes often left me feeling hurt, vulnerable and in tears, making me leave the shop floor.
One day, she was being her customary nasty self to me on the store floor, and saying some deeply hurtful things, when I realised the person standing behind her was not a customer (I didn't take much notice, I was so intent on trying to ignore the woman) but the Store manager.
He tapped her on the shoulder, and said:
"Joan, nobody likes you here. You're nasty, unpopular and you're making this poor girl's life a misery. Everyone has told me things about you, so I came to see it for myself. I think you should leave now, and not come back. I'm dismissing you. Please fetch your things and leave the store."
You couldn't handle things that way now (procedure, procedure!) but it sure felt good to see the back of her.
But I think that sometimes, a direct and no-nonsense approach would do a great deal to alleviate workplace pressure.
Sometimes, people need telling a few home truths.
My temptation, in your place @Bunks, would be to tell the guy exactly what my manager said to Joan, all those years ago.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@upekka said: that is what you think, and that does not mean what you think is correct
True, not always, no. But in this case? It is.
@Bunks said:So @upekka, are you honestly telling me that you would stand by and let someone harrass, bully and intimidate others without speaking out against it?
honestly it depends
if i be mindful and wise enough at the moment i would let it be
The time to 'let it be' has long passed. This man is getting away with bullying and intimidating his fellow workers and it is both unacceptable and highly inappropriate. Not to mention against the Law. That's why disciplinary procedures and Contracts, exist. I think @karasti's example is excellent.
since still i am not 100% mindful and wise i would react differently
Given that @Bunks has shown himself to be both Mindful AND wise in seeking feedback, opinion and different views, he is now acting differently.
Do you think that is what the Buddha would have done?
if not
why did Buddha teach about Dependent Origination?
Sadly, this has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation, or to be more precise, cannot be taken into consideration by Bunks to any practical level. Buddhism is a Philosophical religion.
Philosophy is of little use here, to the depth of your implication.
I used to teach computing in a prison. One day one of the regulars did not show up. I asked one of the two guards to get Frank. They went to get the prisoner, who was 'unavailable'. Both guards found this amusing. GB prison guards 'rule' by fear. Not healthy. Reporting 'trivial' incidents in such an environment took a stronger constitution than mine. I was just grateful the guards let me out ...
Work practices vary. Work environments vary. For example soldiers may get 'legally' shot by their own side if suffering from PTSD whilst on war overtime ...
@Shoshin said:
Hey @Bunks I'm not saying one should "ignore" this person's bad behaviour, far from it, but it is important (from a Buddhist perspective) to understand that we all have the ability to change our ways...some just take a little longer than others to do so...
Whatever you do, do it with honesty, integrity and "compassion". trying to keep in mind the "ok" qualities that you have just mentioned...
This has been difficult for me as I work relatively closely with this guy and (for the most part) he is ok.
And last be not least.... "This 'event' too shall pass!" ......making room for another....
Metta
Indeed we do have the capacity to change. And let's hope a written warning (on top of the many verbal warnings he has received over the last two years) may be the catalyst for him he needs to change his ways.
2
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@Upekka, I think Buddha would advocate the path of least intended harm. To just "let it go" in this instance would be to let the chain of harm continue to make others suffer.
Sometimes the best way to show someone compassion is to show them how they are being harmful and stifling their medium.
Comments
What a weird world we live in that these cumbersome buearacractic hoops must be jumped through to feel safe and sound or whatever this is. Lol. Can you tell that i don't work in corporate?
@Bunks it would seen, the more you have responded to the posts, the bigger the picture is presenting itself...Ie, it has been a consistent issue, something that's been ongoing for a long time....
lets just hope that the words of advice are not painting an even darker picture of this sentient being in your mind's eye...
The thing about Buddhism, is when it comes to situations like the one you now face it's different strokes for different folks that is, not one cap fits all...
So I repeat @Bunks do what "you" feel is the right thing to do...and if your gut feeling is telling you to comply, then do and be done with it...
After all....What's the worse thing that can happen ? (think Shantideva's approach to problems )
There's no such thing as a bad person, only bad behaviour...and this is changing all the time...
I know from your posts in the past, that you don't go into things emotional guns blazing, you take time to consider all the options and possibilities...Which is a good trait to have @Bunks
Metta
Things like this always make me wonder about the extent to which psychology and Buddhism complement eachother. A phrase like 'enabling' is very much in the psychological lexicon, while here it shows a new light on the Buddhist virtue of compassion. I think studying the two side-by-side might be very revealing about the human condition.
Thank you @Shoshin.
This has been difficult for me as I work relatively closely with this guy and (for the most part) he is ok.
However, he has a long history of aggressive outbursts and intimidating / bullying behaviour.
Another concern here is that he has recently directed this toward some new staff members. For one reason or another, we have had some issues with staff retention so do not want to lose these guys because they're good.
To simplify it by saying "ignore his behaviour or you might create bad karma for yourself" is too simple a response. There are heaps of factors at play here and none of us can predict the karmic effects of my actions........
Hey @Bunks I'm not saying one should "ignore" this person's bad behaviour, far from it, but it is important (from a Buddhist perspective) to understand that we all have the ability to change our ways...some just take a little longer than others to do so...
Whatever you do, do it with honesty, integrity and "compassion". trying to keep in mind the "ok" qualities that you have just mentioned...
And last be not least.... "This 'event' too shall pass!" ......making room for another....
Metta
Many, many years ago, when I was a fresh, innocent, naive and simple little thing, (stop laughing!) still at school but just discovering the joys of having a job and earning my own money as a weekend-staff member, I began my life on the "life's-a-grind" wheel working at 'Boots' a very well-known national, High-street Chemist, in the UK.
Bear in mind we're talking early 1970's here. The workplace then was very different. People at that time were still not awake to Racial prejudice, sexual harassment or Bullying in the workplace.
Many of the Laws in place today, did not exist then, or were not implemented in appropriate and timely ways, so there was probably a lot going on which today would have made a crow blush.
I worked with one particularly bitter, nasty and spiteful woman, who took a dislike to me, but in such a way that others gradually became aware, and were witness to. Her vitriol became more and more overt and public, and her nastiness was evident. Other colleagues at work were quick to reassure me and comfort me about her attitude, and even though it felt nice to have them on my side, her nasty gibes often left me feeling hurt, vulnerable and in tears, making me leave the shop floor.
One day, she was being her customary nasty self to me on the store floor, and saying some deeply hurtful things, when I realised the person standing behind her was not a customer (I didn't take much notice, I was so intent on trying to ignore the woman) but the Store manager.
He tapped her on the shoulder, and said:
"Joan, nobody likes you here. You're nasty, unpopular and you're making this poor girl's life a misery. Everyone has told me things about you, so I came to see it for myself. I think you should leave now, and not come back. I'm dismissing you. Please fetch your things and leave the store."
You couldn't handle things that way now (procedure, procedure!) but it sure felt good to see the back of her.
But I think that sometimes, a direct and no-nonsense approach would do a great deal to alleviate workplace pressure.
Sometimes, people need telling a few home truths.
My temptation, in your place @Bunks, would be to tell the guy exactly what my manager said to Joan, all those years ago.
It should perhaps have been said long ago...
Oh, Iz wikkid. (with a nod to @lobster).
True, not always, no. But in this case? It is.
The time to 'let it be' has long passed. This man is getting away with bullying and intimidating his fellow workers and it is both unacceptable and highly inappropriate. Not to mention against the Law. That's why disciplinary procedures and Contracts, exist. I think @karasti's example is excellent.
Given that @Bunks has shown himself to be both Mindful AND wise in seeking feedback, opinion and different views, he is now acting differently.
Sadly, this has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation, or to be more precise, cannot be taken into consideration by Bunks to any practical level. Buddhism is a Philosophical religion.
Philosophy is of little use here, to the depth of your implication.
I used to teach computing in a prison. One day one of the regulars did not show up. I asked one of the two guards to get Frank. They went to get the prisoner, who was 'unavailable'. Both guards found this amusing. GB prison guards 'rule' by fear. Not healthy. Reporting 'trivial' incidents in such an environment took a stronger constitution than mine. I was just grateful the guards let me out ...
Work practices vary. Work environments vary. For example soldiers may get 'legally' shot by their own side if suffering from PTSD whilst on war overtime ...
There is no one cap fits all dukkha ...
Hope it all works out @Bunks ...
Indeed we do have the capacity to change. And let's hope a written warning (on top of the many verbal warnings he has received over the last two years) may be the catalyst for him he needs to change his ways.
@Upekka, I think Buddha would advocate the path of least intended harm. To just "let it go" in this instance would be to let the chain of harm continue to make others suffer.
Sometimes the best way to show someone compassion is to show them how they are being harmful and stifling their medium.