PTSD and C-PTSD
redapple
Veteran
Hello everyone 
!
I am a PTSD sufferer (I also have C-PTSD, which affects my ability to trust, causes chronic low self-esteem, and causes me to easily feel hurt or to have painful emotional flashbacks to pain, shame, and sadness).
and I practice what I call 'Buddhism-Lite', I regularly follow teachings, I practice metta, I try to keep my ethics good (but not super strict - though I've recently being going to sangha more often which I feel is putting me on the right track). In addition, I practice a mindfulness based therapy called Somatic Experiencing, which focuses on bringing attention to bodily awareness and I find it very helpful. However, I know from my own reading that meditation can be dangerous for trauma survivors, so I steer away from sitting meditation extensively... this is something that has been recommended by two trauma specialists (the guy who founded Somatic Experiencing) and Bessel Van Der Kolk (a prominent trauma specialist in the US) - though both are advocates of body-based mindfulness practices. I wonder if anyone has any experience of PTSD and meditation and what they personally think of practising with PTSD (I don't personally wish to debate whether or not it can be dangerous for trauma survivors )?
I just wondered if anyone else was a sufferer who practices here ? In addition, does anyone have any general advice on what kind of Buddhist practices may help ?
Thanks everyone !
Comments
I think keep doing what you're doing, get some good books to read - those by Lama Surya Das (in particular his 'Awakening' Trilogy), Thich Naht Hahn and particularly Pema Chodron, are extremely beneficial. They're user-friendly, easy to follow and full of wisdom in extremely palatable bite-sized portions... Relax. You're among friends, and although we have many members, there are certainly a few who for various reasons, are personally empathetic to your situation, having themselves been party to varied psychological "upsets". And that's ok.
Hope this helps.
Awesome - thanks
! does playful, uber-relaxed cartwheel and orders the books you kindly mentioned 
:P!
Well @Kaydeekay,
Anything which helps you to center and quiet the dragon is a step in the right direction, with the exception of self-medication and total retreat. Never Be defeated and never give up!
In truth, the core to my putting the dragon in it's place has been my Buddhism.
Once I knew what the problem was (the PTSD), I was able to apply my Buddhist philosophy and practice to overcome it, rise above it, and muzzle that beast.
PTSD is not a weakness. It is what happens when the after effects of severe stress overpower our ability to process the event and our own built in coping mechanisms.
Most given methods of coping with PTSD are passive. That is, one is taught to refocus, to find that quiet place and recenter. For me, that was/is only a part of the process.
Yes, I found my quiet place, I re-centered.
Then I counter attacked.
The great dragon turned out to be a tiny mouse with grand illusions.
I ultimately, I told the beast, "I am greater than you. You are but a little mouse and I am the Lion. Your 'roar' is but a squeak. Back to the little mouse cage for you." (And it is true)
Nam myoho renge kyo!
No matter if you practice only meditative or if you go beyond that, you are the power.
You are the Lion and the beast is no match for a Lion. Keep going, the victory is yours.
Peace to you
Peace to all
@Kaydeekay I'm less so in the middle of it but it was my life for a very long time though I didn't know it. What worked for me was to find a supportive person to speak about my feelings, started meditating regularly and learned to find my limits. The most important thing was to learn to be kind to myself.
Sometimes it won't feel good but that doesn't mean it's bad. Just take your time and don't be in a hurry. Love and care are central. Do your best to keep that in mind.
As for the discussion board, sometimes it can be difficult to understand whether it's an attack or an opinion or for any other reason it sounds a bit harsh or aggressive. Take it as a practice to learn to see if it really is an attack or to wait a bit before getting too reactive. If you feel you're hurt or reacting badly, either ask for further clarification in the politest possible way or take a 24 hour break. I used to get so offended and hurt by things people say (I guess I still do) but now I take more time to soften the way I respond (which is harder to do when in the middle of a heated reaction).
In all things, be kind to yourself and respect everyone else.
@Kaydeekay this short Dharma talk might be of help, it's possible it will plant a seed that will grow in time, ie, you'll be motivated to seek out more information....Especially the concept of "Dependent Origination"
Metta
Welcome @Kaydeekay
Some great advice from everyone. [group hug]
I particularly liked @federica advice.
Buddhism-lite is a great start. A seed as @Shoshin mentions. We are all on the stress/dukkha continuum/spectrum. So if people seem a little rogue at times, be patient and understanding.
Good luck.
Hi @Kaydeekay and welcome!
What I found the most use - more useful than sitting meditation to be honest - is learning to apply insight. Buddhism is great for learning about the structure of the mind and emotions, the Three Poisons, negative mind states and how they relate. So definitely I would suggest to read up on these.
If you can learn to look with a meditative eye, you can disentangle over time the origins of your own weaknesses, gaining insight into how they are put together and how to counter them. Often just a little bit of insight goes a long way, some things just fall apart.
I've found it really useful to just google everything I came across. For example I was feeling anger, so I googled "Buddhism dealing with anger" and up come some very good articles on that particular mind state. It's a gradual process which just deepens your knowledge bit by bit.
Best of luck with your ptsd!
metta bhavna?
- so maybe mantrayana could be helpful for you?
Make sure you send me some, I am off to rougher parts of dharma land shortly and need the good will and blessings. @Lionduck is our cocoa drinking token nichiren practitioner
May you be well
Thank you all so much for all your wonderful advice!! Maybe I will rethink the steering away from meditation thing, I'm also in trauma therapy at the moment, so hopefully it will help clear out all the ghosts and demons in the closest, so that I can embark on meditation without fear.
Sending good wishes, freshly baked cookies, and snuggly winter jumpers your way
@Kaydeekay
Meditation is such a personal choice. There's a well-known Australian nun called Robina Courtin - took her 7 years to sit on the cushion!
Your opening post was very honest.
Freshly baked cookies meditation? I feel a plan coming on ... Mindfulness/awareness is very advanced/natural/easy/flavour of the month etc. It might suit.
Zen might suit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treeleaf_Zendo
You might even follow Bodhi JC - the well known birthday boy ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Sutras
Sadhana might be your way ...
http://thubtenchodron.org/2007/08/medicine-buddha-practrice/
Be kind to yourself
keep us posted ...
It sounds like you're in contact with some of the best practitioners in the field, OP. Are you getting some relief of symptoms? I had PTSD treated via EMDR, and went on to have a very nice, calm meditation practice. The symptoms were resolved, so nothing traumatic came up during meditation, or after. But your case sounds more intense and more challenging to treat. I have an interest in trauma; I think it's at the root of much of the human suffering in the world--more common than any psychologists ever imagined before. I hope you're in good care, and are seeing some gradual improvement.
Meditation IMO is contraindicated for trauma victims. In fact, I doubt it would even be possible for trauma victims with active symptoms, until the condition is resolved. You're wise to inquire.
Like @Dakini I had success with PTSD with EMDR but that was combined with a good amount of therapy and a long way into it. I was already much eased by then. If EMDR is of interest, take the advice of those working with you as to if, when, how etc.
I'm not sure what IMO means but I remember reading an article that people who had experienced domestic violence found it hard to meditate in a group, and preferred solitary practice. I find meditating with eyes open much better (lowered gaze about 4-6 feet in front) than with eyes shut.
The high concentration style (e.g. Goenka's 10 day retreat) is a big ask for traumatised people so it's good to wait until you're comfortable with emotion before undertaking something like that.
Thank you Tiddlywinds! I do see such value in the practice, but I'm also ambivalent and cautious because of my history! I think I need to work through my trauma fully first, before developing a more intensive practice. I would love to meditate regularly!
Thank you lobster
!
Hi Dakini! Oh I wish I was actually in contact with these amazing psychologists! I really have such an appreciation and admiration for them, as they really have pushed the boundaries of trauma treatment and have a real passion and deep sense of caring for helping to heal the traumatised, despite not having direct experience of PTSD themselves. I was just quoting them from the things that I have read
.
I am booking in treatment with an EMDR/CBT therapist this January, I am pretty excited for it! If you don't mind me asking, was your trauma multiple? I have a complex and varied history of trauma, but I don't think it is as severe as other people's... so it's a mixed bag. I think it's challenging in that I have PTSD and C-PTSD, which are two different disorders. I'd describe C-PTSD as like having raw nerves exposed, and people can easily hit your pain points, and it's also a complete lack of self-worth or a sense that people care for you. Though I think many people have more severe experiences of it than I do.
Me too, I think trauma (small traumas and big traumas) are at the root of most of our mental health issues, not just PTSD.
In regards, to meditation, I am open to discussion and curious to hear your opinions
. It's just i discussed my reservations with a meditation teacher once and he was like, "that's never happened" "no one has ever had a 'nervous breakdown' or anything from meditation practice", which was kind of frustrating and invalidating, because from my reading I know that it has happened and it's not always recommended by experts. I guess I have been trying to find people who can openly discuss how to navigate potential pitfalls, rather than deny they exist, then i would feel more confident and safe in practicing.
Thank you for sharing your advice ^_^! I am curious to try EMDR with a therapist
.
Thanks everyone for being so supportive and offering such thoughtful advice. It helps to talk to people who have been there and who are getting a lot out of the practice
! Thank you 
A little bit of meditation goes a long way... you could try starting with mindfulness moments, which is just taking a few times during your day to come to a complete stop and focus on the breath for just 30 seconds at a time. Many people do this in the office, after breakfast, etcetera.
I have PTSD as well (among other things) and I find that meditation and general practice really helps. For me, meditation is not always sitting on a cushion. It can be working on my Zen garden, painting miniatures, building with legos (I'm an adult, I can do this if I want.
), reading, etc.
Life isn't always groovy, but, I try to make the best of it I can. I'm sorry that you have to suffer through this stuff, PTSD sucks. I'm glad to have all of you as such as wonderful support system though.
And it's good to know that the Dude is out there, taking it easy for our sins.
Yes, OP; having a nervous breakdown from meditation, or other stressful symptoms, does happen. I would proceed with caution. If you're in a state of shock, or are having flashbacks, having trouble focusing other than on traumatic events, you wouldn't be able to meditate, anyway.
No, mine wasn't multiple. I felt relief after the first EMDR treatment. It only took a few more to resolve all symptoms. However, after that, I discovered years later that I became prone to PTSD, for example, with a relatively minor car accident. Once the neural pathways are laid down, I think people are more susceptible. So with that later trauma, the practitioner I found administered the EMDR a little differently, so it took longer to have an effect. I've since learned that there's some variety in how it's practiced, and some therapists don't do it right, others prefer to introduce an aural component with earphones, so it takes a few sessions to get used to the technology and the method, etc. Personally, I think some methods are rip-offs.
However, due to the complexity of your case, I expect it will take you time, anyway. But I think you should feel some relief within the first couple of sessions. Good luck, and let us know how it goes, please!
Hi everyone -thank you so much
! It really is such a weight off of me to have your support ^_^! I struggled to do any practice yesterday, as the person who caused by PTSD recently contacted me and my mind has been all stirred up. Sometimes I feel upset and defeated, like it will never end. But I'm going to try and do some mindful running and walking and just take it easy on myself 
. I hope things will get better once I start EMDR as well, so I can put some of the traumas to rest.
@ajhayes - thanks for sharing with me
! Did you go for any trauma treatment yourself? Good to hear that practice has helped you 
!
Thank you @Dakini, yes - this is what I have read, by that PTSD is for life - once your brain is susceptible, then it can come back if you go through anything that is quite stressful or traumatic.
Thanks everyone! I will come and update you on how it is going
!
I attended two inpatient treatments at the Veterans Affairs hospitals (two different locations in Wisconsin, USA). I've done EMDR, Prolonged Exposure, group sessions, one on one sessions, and a lot of different acronyms which I can't remember. There is a blend of a lot of things that are working (kind of) for me. It's not very comfortable trying to be ok with being alone with my thoughts. But, gradually I'm making my way there.
I've read comments from some Vets saying that what helped them the most was acupuncture. There's an acupuncture technique for resolving trauma; it's a traditional Taoist exorcism treatment that not all acupuncturists know. You'd have to find a practitioner familiar with "ghost point acupuncture", and specifically, the "7 Dragons" treatment. I can vouch for it; it has worked for me. It's worth a try if you can find someone qualified to administer it. The new Vet Admin facility being built in my town will offer it, I'm told.
Hi @ajhayes, thank you for sharing. My old PTSD counsellor, was an ex-vet and what he shared with me that he experienced in his first week of deployment, really gave me a a small fragment of insight into the levels of trauma that you have to deal with, and how hard it must be to work through that. Best of luck on your healing journey
. Would be nice to keep in touch 
.
I also find acupuncture helpful
.
I've recently started acupuncture, but, I'm not able to attend my sessions frequently as the wife and I had twins almost 4 months ago in addition to our 4 year old. Once things calm down, I'm very excited to see what acupuncture will lead to. Thanks for sharing your journey and for being so supportive of me. Looking forward to good times coming up.
Yes, good luck. Frankly, I find it very unfair what servicemen and women are put through these days. The trauma level didn't used to be this high, by which I mean--compound traumas.
However, I just want to be clear that the most effective treatments are in the "ghost point" acupuncture modality, vs. more standard techniques. That is where you'll see really significant results, after just one or two treatments. These are NOT the type of treatments you get weekly on a regular basis. It's a whole other deal, and it's contraindicated to get them too often. This speaks to how powerful they are. Just giving you more info to work with.
That's awesome
! Thank you to you too 
. I hope we can keep seeing growth and change. In the meantime, you could try some ear seeds? My acupuncturist put them in when my PTSD was really bad, and they helped and I've just bought some for myself 
. I like these bad boys because you can just press on a seed when you're feeling anxious...http://www.acupuncture.com/education/tcmbasics/earacu.htm. No idea how any of this stuff works scientifically, but it seems to get results 
.
Hi Dakini, I just read up on the Ghost Point, apparently it is very powerful, and should only be used once you are stabilised. Not that I really get what that means with PTSD lol?
Ghost points can be found on The Governor Vessel (GV - spinal access) and the Conception Vessel (CV - central front of body, mirroring position and location of the Governor Vessel). The GV is Yang, the CV is Yin.
ETA: Other channels also have Ghost points: Lung, Large Intestine, PeriCardium (AKA Heart Protector), Stomach, Spleen, and (Urinary) Bladder.
It is important to note the uppercase letters. This is because the Channels relating to these organs are to be taken in the context of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), which views these organs, or Seats of Energy, in a different context or light, to the way they are accepted in Western Medicine.
As has already been emphasised - These points should only ever be accessed by a specialised and extremely experienced practitioner, preferably one you know you can trust, or whom has been personally recommended to you.
Shiatsu practitioners practise acuPRESSURE - that is, they access the most superficial points, directly, through manual pressure, and the deeper points can also be manipulated this way, but the process is gentler. Although results take longer to manifest, shiatsu is considered a 'safer' method of stimulating or calming the points (or 'tsubos' as they are known, in shiatsu/acupuncture parlance). Perhaps you could also explore the possibility of Shiatsu therapy.
Just came across my pages on the 21 Tara practice I used to do at least once a day
http://web.archive.org/web/20040804180344/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/lobster/tara/
The full sadhana takes over an hour the way I was taught it. Other version variant:
http://thubtenchodron.org/2009/10/tara-meditation-front-extended/
http://greendharmatreasury.org/blog/classic-sadhanas-from-the-tibetan-tradition
It is considered an 'open and safe for everyone' vajrayana practice particularly suited to those dealing with fear, anxiety, stress etc.
OM TARE TUTTARE TURE SVAHA
Thank you Lobster
!
Hi everyone, I've decided to take up meditation again. I just apply the same caution as I do in trauma treatment, if I feel myself slipping too far into the trauma, then I bring myself back out with some grounding techniques and body based mindfulness. I think by applying mindfulness to my mindfulness :P, I can navigate any potential hazards (i hope at least
!).
Hey, great, OP! Best wishes with your therapy. Let us know how it goes, OK? I'm curious as to whether you get results by whatever the de-trauma technique you chose is. It's always helpful to hear that kind of feedback; it could help the next person.
Bravo.
eh ma ho (Tibetan translated = 'How wonderful') I think hope and developing resources are the way. Good luck. The 'next person' as @Dakini says ...
Thanks Dakini, I will ^_^! The Somatic Experiencing Therapy, coupled with Therapeutic Writing, are both helping a lot
. And with more than just the overt PTSD symptoms, I feel both get to the heart of what has been missing in my life for so long, as a result of being traumatised. They give me hope and inspiration/passion for life, which are two things that trauma steals from you; it's healing to feel alive. It's hard to describe, but I feel like I am part of the flow of things, and can react to things around me rather than in a state of non-reactive shutdown to the freshness of life. That has been the norm for so long, that I couldn't even recognise that I was shutdown when my therapist was explaining it to me: not me, I thought, I am just fearful and hyper-aroused.
I start CBT this week and EMDR in January, I'm ready to throw everything at it, as the PTSD has really helped me see that I can't do it alone and that the impact of lifelong trauma has been festering for a long while.
I hope to one day be able to help others heal from trauma, no one should have to live with this.
Thanks all for all your support and openness towards me, it's so refreshing and healing
!
Hi everyone ^_^, just came to say thanks so much for your support and advice. I recently began my EMDR therapy and it has been amazing, it has helped me so much and I resolved a lot of the effects of my childhood and beyond. I'm doing really well now and suffer minimal anxiety (pretty much minimal, or very manageable PTSD issues a lot of the time) and the other difficult emotions are a lot more subdued. I'm feeling happier and freer than I have probably ever done. Mediation has also been a big help.
Just thought I'd also leave this here in case it is useful for anyone and anyone had any worries about mediation or how they could work with their PTSD
.
Thank you everyone
Good to hear. I have PTSD from my time in the police, I find mindfulness and living simply, openly and honestly works a treat. Quiet times and meditation are vital. All the best toy you for the future,
Thank you @JohnMac - good advice
Hey @Kaydeekay sending you every best wish . Great advice from everybody here. May you be happy. May you be well. May you be safe. May you be free.
did you read the thread 'how to practice Buddha's Teaching in day-today life'
practice it few days when you feel like doing so
come back with the results
or
you might know what is the result and what you should do next
Thank you Hozan, that's very kind of you
. Sending lots of metta your way 
Are you replying to my first post lol? I've been practicing for a few years now, think I've got the hang out the basics
. Working out well for me 
, thanks for taking the time to reply. Metta.
if so you should know by this time the 'thing you should know' and 'what you should do' accordingly
if that is so, then why was OP? is the intention for others sake?
if so, it is a meritorious deed
anyway thanks for the OP
@upekka, look at the date of the original post. It was a few months ago....
@Kaydeekay updated their position on the 21st of this month. It's the update you should refer to.
I think the complexity of the issue was explained in the first post and it's not relevant now because I am practicing mediation without any issue, which was the original concern - as I explained in the updated post
.
Thanks @Federica
my mistake, apologies
thanks, sorry
No problem. It's an easy thing to overlook. No worries, @upekka, I suspected it was a simple error....