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Was Jesus An Enlightened Buddha? Was he Buddhist?
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If I say or write violent things, am I violent? Or am I only violent if i DO violent things? Are violent metaphors violent?
I think it's fair to say that some of the violence in the Bible is metaphorical. It's a little risky to say it's ONLY metaphorical, as it still trades on violence. But it's also fair to say it was written in its time, for its time, and "you have reach people where they are" as modern Christians like to say.
As Karasti points out, if one wants to find disagreement, one can find and accentuate and exaggerate turns of phrase, and stretch them beyond their intended meaning. Religion and politics are both vulnerable to this. There is plenty of raw material ready to be mined, polished, and sold.
That's Truth, with a capital T. Like a lot of people, you're missing the point. It's spiritual truth that's being exhorted
I think that's a fallacy. Spiritual truth doesn't have to be poetic or metaphoric, there is plenty of it that is quite clear. That's a basic point of all communication - spiritual or not - clarity.
If you take what is quite clearly a parable as literal that's YOUR decision to do so. If you think the Bible, Torah, Koran etc is BS then say so.
A parable is a short story illustrating a point. The quote I brought up is nothing like a parable.
I have some respect for the bible as a document of historical importance and for some of its wisdom, but I also think huge tracts of it are the produce of psychosis and ancient superstition.
Never said it wasn't.
Que?
This seems how can I say it - clearly incomplete.
Most ordinary communication occurs on the non verbal level. Ordinary human communication has nuances and subtleties. It has subconcious and emotional tones.
Fortunately metacognition is now being considered a valid teaching skill to empower children ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacognition
The Bible, especially Ye Olde Testerone Testament that Jesus was brought up on, is regarded as having several layers of meaning. At twelve, Jesus was already understanding scripture on a more profound level, as is clear from a New Testament tale ...
Spiritual communication at its most effective, is highly multi-layered ...
Christ be with you - as we Buddhists might say ...
The Buddha, I believe, taught in the same way, did he not? He taught according to his audience, and what he taught, was vastly smaller than what he could have taught, or knew.
Yes, there is a plethora of material to be viewed according to one's on interpretation. I find that interpretation can be distinctly affected by one's own biases, prejudices or pre-formed opinions.
If one were to be an ardent and outspoken Atheist, for example, pretty much the entire Book is going to come in for disdain, ridicule and downright dismissal....
s I read somewhere, "The Trouble with a Closed Mind, is that it opens its mouth...."
I feel bad for Jesus. I wonder how he would have felt if he knew his teachings would inspire a death cult where people envision themselves bathing in his blood to save themselves from the wrath of an angry, jealous and all around unenlightened godhead.
Metaphorical or not, the Bible is a pretty twisted work, filled with violence and disturbing sexual references which I would think Jesus would separate from, not condone.
He is more than a karma toilet but that's his main function according to some of his supposed followers.
If the recent verifications of the discovered tablets are anything to go by, they clarify Jesus' intentions to re-establish the traditional, Compassionate original 'Order of Things'. He envisioned God as genderless, and upheld the benevolent discipline of the teachings of his forefathers, from the time of King David.
I have the feeling he would not look too kindly on some interpretations...
Which part - the Old Testament/Torah or the New Testament?
He said he came to FULFILL the law - Jewish Law (halacha). So I'm pretty sure he was down with a lot of it. He had his issues with the Pharisees and their interpretation of halacha but not the halacha itself.
I might add here that the Old Testament in the Christian Bible DOES have translation discrepancies. Particularly in Leviticus and regarding homosexuality. Judaism denounces men acting effeminent and taking a female role in a relationship, Christianity focused on the sexual act. I say this from what I've gleaned from my Torah classes. But I digress.
And the Buddha is more than that as well, but hey sometimes we belittle his efforts too.
I get it, you have a negative view of Christianity, Christians and maybe religion in general - that last part is a guess on my behalf. But the attitude from a lot of us on this thread is really shitty. No one path is perfect, especially not Buddhism. In another thread on the forum, there's been heated debate on an alcoholic Buddhist teacher.
I'm starting to wonder if people are trolling for shits and giggles on here. It's pretty disappointing. And I'm disappointed that I've allowed people to bait me into acting unskillfully on here too.
As someone trying to follow the Dharma, a Jew and a student of history and anthropology, I try to be a little more understanding of other paths. This doesn't mean I accept them, it just means I'm trying not to be a judgmental so and so.
We, as a collective we, need to not consider ourselves above traditional theistic paths. It's not a competition as to who's path is better. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the Buddha's intention.
No, you pretty much have to believe in the concept of original sin for the blood of the lamb to mean anything, sorry @dhammachick.
If people giving an opinion that differs from you is trolling in your eyes, I'm afraid there's little I can do about that.
I am speaking from the heart.
Are you sure you are not just looking for problems?
On a side-note, but with reference to he above, it's one of the reasons I left Facebook. I realised it was insidiously turning me into someone I didn't want to be.
You totally misunderstood her post.
No I'm not, but given this isn't the first time you've singled me out David I don't need to make my point any further.
Especially given I was speaking in general as specified. But thanks.
Singled you out?
Um, please go back and look. Both times it was actually you that singled me out. @Dhammachick
I saw it as trying to imply I would mix up the O/T with the N/T and that I was being a troll for giving my opinion. One that I've shared here for 5 years or something and that I am a bit passionate about.
I will reread it and take the insults out. Maybe it will make more sense.
Yes
I recall you insulting myself AND the mod if you want to be pedantic.
You conveniently ignored my clarifications then. And length of time is irrelevant, I've been here for 7 years. That has nothing to do with it.
We both know I was not insulting you.
Do what you want. I won't engage you in any further conversation on here given your personal umbrage at me.
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You are seeing what you want to see. I had and still have respect for you, lol. I don't really see where this hostility came from but it is none of my business and I refuse the gift @dhammachick.
For a reminder, I said it was too bad Hitler bastardized the swastika and you jumped on me. I was more rude than I had to be in my response to being jumped on, I admit, but you jumped on me for something like that. Then Hitler was brought up again in the political thread and nobody got offended or jumped on for it.
Here, you can plainly see that I was just jumped on, lol.
I don't know... Sorry but I was not addressing anyone or singling anyone out on this thread until you quoted me and basically called me a troll.
I mean really.
And no, I don't think Jesus would approve of Christianity anymore than he approved of Judaism. His good news was that of forgiveness and he explains how to get into the Kingdom of God. It had nothing to do with him being tortured and killed and everything to do with compassion in my honest opinion.
Sue me, geez.
Moderator Posting:
You've got a funny way of showing it...
I jumped on you for that too. And rightly so.
Your comments show anything BUT respect, to dhammachick as a member, a woman and a Jew.
Hitler? Politics? How strange he should be directly connected. The mention of Hitler's use of the swastika here was off-topic.
No, you weren't. You misinterpreted her post entirely, as I said, and you completely twisted her meaning.
You were displaying the characteristics of one...
Yes. Really.
@dhammachick is referring to the insults and patronising demeaning and frankly ignorant comments being made by those who have done little or no homework on the subject, yet choose to criticise, interpret and condemn certain passages without an deeper understanding of the matter. Taking isolated passages of scripture and presuming they mean something specific, is a mistake.
Furthermore, these teachings are not OUR teachings but they are someone's teachings. As such, no matter what our opinions of these scriptures, both those who follow them, and the teachings themselves, should be afforded a degree of respect.
Criticism of the kind here, both from you and others, is not an admirable trait, and demonstrates a prejudicial ignorance that is beneath us all.