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@karasti said:
It doesn't mean getting rid of all of the desire, as has been discussed. But the attachment to the desires and especially the outcomes of them.
Had an instructive experience with this over the weekend - we went to see the annual lotus blossom festival in DC, and the flowers were gorgeous. I noticed how blissful I felt, seeing them. And then I also noticed the clinging aspect, as manifested in the desire to pull the phone out and start taking pictures for Instagram, etc. Which to my mind is partly about the wish to own these things somehow, or to hold onto them. I have been listening to some talks lately that are focused on vedana ("feeling" or "feeling tone"), which is succeeded by craving (tanha) and clinging (upadana), and it does seem to me that the practice is about working on the tanha and upadana, rather than trying to suppress the vedana.
I can't say I've had mystical experiences while meditating. Sometimes there's a feeling of joy or rapture. I don't go looking for this or expecting that it will happen, although it's nice when it does!
@lobster said:
I would suggest the purelands and hell realms are our potential but on the whole we are best served by heading for the Purelands.
Is this accomplished through meditation, or more through cultivating paramitas, good sila, etc? I mean from a Theravada POV, not Jodo Shinshu and so on.
@Lazy_eye there is no meditation or contemplation to the Pure Land. only the recitation of "namo Amida buddha." you can fit it into your other practice if you wish. I have tried visualization meditations prescribed in the Pure Land sutras, but didn't like it as much.
for me, Pure Land is all vedana. a feeling to experience. we can practice the nembutsu just as we are, wherever we are, whenever we are. it is that simple. but sometimes simplicity is hard to accept. when that happens I keep on with the nembutsu.
i think it is better to take all vada, yana etc., Theravada, Mahayana, Hinayana, Zen etc. into account and practise
our own practice will tell us what is right and which way we must go
then
what we are practising is Buddha's Teaching only
then there wouldn't be any conflict among any yana or vada
this is the 'how i come so far' and i can guarantee it helped me
now
i don't depend on any vada or yana
instead
i depend on my practice and i refer tripitaka (three basket- pali cannon) to see what i experience is correct or not
i do not depend on other' interpretation of theTeaching any more
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2017
Moderator Note:
If * you * are reading the book, please keep commentary to the relevant chapter. There is a 'Book of Eights' General discussion thread already, for comments not DIRECTLY concerning specific chapter content. .
If * you * are NOT reading - or following - the book, then I'm afraid your discourse isn't in the right place here.
This thread is for those reading and participating in the book discussion..
Many thanks.
@upekka but at one time you did depend on (or at least make use of) other's interpretations, which is what we are doing her. And truly, isn't every single written version of every sutra that exists, in some way an interpretation of someone else? They were all translated and that alone is interpretation. In any case, @Vastmind has been so kind as to post the sutra in each thread that the book comments on, so perhaps you have thoughts on that.
If he who desires sensual pleasures is successful, he certainly becomes glad-minded, having obtained what a mortal wishes for. (766)
But if those sensual pleasures fail the person who desires and wishes (for them), he will suffer, pierced by the arrow (of pain). (767)
He who avoids sensual pleasures as (he would avoid treading upon) the head of a snake with his foot, such a one, being thoughtful (sato), will conquer this desire. (768)
He who covets extensively (such) pleasures (as these), fields, goods, or gold, cows and horses, servants, women, relations, (769)
Sins will overpower him, dangers will crush him, and pain will follow him as water (pours into) a broken ship. (770)
Therefore let one always be thoughtful, and avoid pleasures; having abandoned them, let him cross the stream, after baling out the ship, and go to the other shore. (771)
Kâmasutta is ended.
@federica said:
This thread is for those reading and participating in the book discussion..
am i not allowed to participate in this thread?
ok, no problem
@karasti said: @upekka but at one time you did depend on (or at least make use of) other's interpretations, which is what we are doing her.
yes
And truly, isn't every single written version of every sutra that exists, in some way an interpretation of someone else? They were all translated and that alone is interpretation.
yes
In any case, @Vastmind has been so kind as to post the sutra in each thread that the book comments on, so perhaps you have thoughts on that.
Comments
Had an instructive experience with this over the weekend - we went to see the annual lotus blossom festival in DC, and the flowers were gorgeous. I noticed how blissful I felt, seeing them. And then I also noticed the clinging aspect, as manifested in the desire to pull the phone out and start taking pictures for Instagram, etc. Which to my mind is partly about the wish to own these things somehow, or to hold onto them. I have been listening to some talks lately that are focused on vedana ("feeling" or "feeling tone"), which is succeeded by craving (tanha) and clinging (upadana), and it does seem to me that the practice is about working on the tanha and upadana, rather than trying to suppress the vedana.
I can't say I've had mystical experiences while meditating. Sometimes there's a feeling of joy or rapture. I don't go looking for this or expecting that it will happen, although it's nice when it does!
Is this accomplished through meditation, or more through cultivating paramitas, good sila, etc? I mean from a Theravada POV, not Jodo Shinshu and so on.
@Lazy_eye there is no meditation or contemplation to the Pure Land. only the recitation of "namo Amida buddha." you can fit it into your other practice if you wish. I have tried visualization meditations prescribed in the Pure Land sutras, but didn't like it as much.
for me, Pure Land is all vedana. a feeling to experience. we can practice the nembutsu just as we are, wherever we are, whenever we are. it is that simple. but sometimes simplicity is hard to accept. when that happens I keep on with the nembutsu.
From Theravada POV all the methods and more, that you suggest. In Theravada:
Pureland is Nirvana, Para-nirvana, Suddhavasa
Hell realm (Naraka) is not being a monk
Lotus festival - yeah! Wot no pics?
i think it is better to take all vada, yana etc., Theravada, Mahayana, Hinayana, Zen etc. into account and practise
our own practice will tell us what is right and which way we must go
then
what we are practising is Buddha's Teaching only
then there wouldn't be any conflict among any yana or vada
this is the 'how i come so far' and i can guarantee it helped me
now
i don't depend on any vada or yana
instead
i depend on my practice and i refer tripitaka (three basket- pali cannon) to see what i experience is correct or not
i do not depend on other' interpretation of theTeaching any more
Are you reading the book, @upekka ?
Moderator Note:
If * you * are reading the book, please keep commentary to the relevant chapter. There is a 'Book of Eights' General discussion thread already, for comments not DIRECTLY concerning specific chapter content. .
If * you * are NOT reading - or following - the book, then I'm afraid your discourse isn't in the right place here.
This thread is for those reading and participating in the book discussion..
Many thanks.
(* you * generic, not 'you' specific.)
@upekka but at one time you did depend on (or at least make use of) other's interpretations, which is what we are doing her. And truly, isn't every single written version of every sutra that exists, in some way an interpretation of someone else? They were all translated and that alone is interpretation. In any case, @Vastmind has been so kind as to post the sutra in each thread that the book comments on, so perhaps you have thoughts on that.
i read this:
IV. ATTHAKAVAGGA.
Sensual pleasures are to be avoided.
Kâmasutta is ended.
am i not allowed to participate in this thread?
ok, no problem
yes
yes
thanks to you and gratitude to @Vastmind
Of course you are more than welcome to participate in this thread.
If you are following the book relevant to this thread.