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Is everyone here an atheist?
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Interesting quote.
An atheist is a Gnostic, who does not know God. A Buddhist ideally leans towards what they know. What do you know?
Is it a fish school? I know fish.
I'm an Atheist till the day I die.........then I'm open to offers
Sort of like the Thais who will pay homage to a Hindu statue or even Christian statue...just in case.
When the spiritual stakes are high....A bet each way could win the day
If you're of the view that the Buddha taught Brahman/universal consciousness, then the onus is on you to provide evidence to that effect. I don't have to prove a negative. Logic 101.
Nope. He accepted it as a waste of time thinking about it.
Read on...
Ok edited to get to the point:
Bollocks techie - you made the original statement, you need to prove it.
Well, I might have used a different phraseology, but yeah, basically, that, @techie.
Exactly so. And the same applies to "God".
I could claim that space aliens exist for example, but then the onus would be on me to provide some credible evidence for this claim....assuming I hadn't been abducted again.
Yes. You could say that Buddhism is Hinduism minus Atman and Brahman. There is nothing wrong with Hinduism, but it is different from Buddhism and it is good to be clear about this.
Exactly. It's like that old saying: "Did God make man, or did man make God?"
That's how it works, yes @techie.
That's not how it goes. Maybe you should re-read the thread as you seem confused as to your original claim.
You say that Buddha outright denied the possibility of a universal consciousness. Asking you to prove that is not asking you to prove a negative and I never claimed Buddha taught there is universal consciousness.
Are you done back peddling and misrepresenting my position now?
Why can't people just debate honestly?
You know (she said, to nobody particular, in general), sometimes it's absolutely fine to let go of the resolute opinion that you're right. If you believe you're right, that's fine. Everyone else might well believe the same about themselves, and that's fine too.
It's not your job to make sure everyone is a convert to your way of thinking.
It IS, however, your job - if you're that way inclined - to make sure that what you believe, IS right. And back it up with evidence.
And do the research.
And provide your evidence.
Provide that evidence, so that, based on your evidence, others can then choose what they believe to be right.
You might change their minds to your way of thinking, if your logic is so startlingly clear it's hard to argue against.
You might.
If you don't?
It's really not worth breaking a bead of sweat over.
Is it?
Thanks for accepting that. Case closed.
No it's not case closed. To quote our awesome moderator
It's not your job to make sure everyone is a convert to your way of thinking
It IS, however, your job - if you're that way inclined - to make sure that what you believe, IS right. And back it up with evidence.
And do the research.
And provide your evidence.
You've done neither, except throw a tantrum and place words in other people's mouths.
Put up or shut up, bluntly. Why the incessant need to be right? Buddhism isn't a proselytizing path, why browbeat people to believe what you do?
Moderator note:
Seriously @techie, pack it in.
You really don't want to be at the sharp end of a blunt Mod.
I do not know if I am an atheist. Belief is NOT knowledge. Buddhism supports self-observation and personal experience, rather than belief. The problem with believing in the existence of God is that these inner experiences always have more than one possible explanation, and cannot be considered proof of the existence of God. Belief has more to do with wishful thinking than with verifiable knowledge and Truth.
The experience of Unity and universal love ... experienced so often during meditations ... may be nothing more than increased activity in the right hemisphere of our brain. Meditation, btw, increases activity in this area of our brain.
This video is a talk by a brain physiologist who had a massive left-brain stroke. Her experience is relevant to all of us who explore our consciousness.
Does God exist? No one knows. The EXPERIENCE of God is a valid experience. But whether or not our brain is a receiver or creates this experience .. no one knows.
Before too many people jump on anyone about not being able to prove there is a God, it might give some pause to some to do a Google search of "did Buddha exist". There are lots of questions out there about that issue, or -- assuming he did exist -- how much do we factually know about him.
@vinlyn Yep, really even considering the story of Budda and what he taught requires belief on some level. Yes, we can test that what we learn works from our perspective. But a degree of belief is required that Budda existed and was who he was (rather than perhaps just a crazy person) to even start to undertake Buddhism.
I originally became interested in Buddhism because it provided a code of ethics that I could agree with completely. Also, it seemed to provide a path to peace and happiness. All this without having to believe in any imaginary BS. The thing is, the deeper that I've gone the more "spiritual" I've become. I'm not really satisfied with the word spiritual but I don't know what else to call it. It turns out I want to believe in imaginary BS. I laugh at myself but, as Popeye said, "I am what I am.". To put it in a kinder way, I'm open to everything.
In my opinion - and it IS just my opinion - as far as western Theology is concerned, there is more myth and fantasy written about God and Christ, than is good for us.
I hear a lot of objections from many atheists declaring that the Bible is an inaccurate and untrustworthy volume of stories written hundreds of years after the event, and that having been translated, transcribed, and transferred from one branch of Christianity to another, it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
Yet it is good enough for many Buddho-Christian, who thereby adheres to the inner principles of basically every other religion existing: To be good to others, to be kind, and to love.
Why complicate matters?
Is it really important whence this message of Compassion Loving-kindness and Unity comes?
Ubuntu is the key: "I am, because we are".
My step-son today was bemoaning the British decision to leave the EU.
That we're hurling a boulder off a cliff, to which we are tied, and that this could spell the end of the EU as we know it.
(Quite apart from the fact that the UK didn't join the EU - they joined the Common Market, but that's a whole different game of bar billiards) I told him that it really didn't matter, in the great scheme of things, and I asked him this:"If you were to die tomorrow, what difference would that make to the world's turning? How would your demise affect our French, Italian, german, Spanish, Portugese, North African neighbours?"
It gave him pause for thought, and a little glimmer of understanding within him sparked.
In the same way, I would ask those with deep Political interests here, what would your Passing do, to the Trump administration, and the future of America?
And what difference would it make to the argument for/against God's existence?
How would your death change the views of others?
It wouldn't make one iota of difference.
So why fuss about it whilst alive?
Just live each day in a Good Way.
The imponderables will take care of themselves, with or without our help.
I don't think that analogy really fits. More appropriate would be comparing the possible life and teachings of Buddha with that of Jesus.
Thich Nhat Hanh did that beautifully in Living Buddha, Living Christ ??
The problem is that nobody claimed any Buddhist schools teach the concept so you both are being dishonest in your argument.
This is why I figure you are not being genuine and it makes me wonder why somebody would bother with such tactics.
Good plan!
... meanwhile don't try this very real ritual at home ... Ay caramba ... not suitable for children, the crazed, lobsters without a sofa to hide behind etc ...
Amazing film for those of us aware of Mahagick, the worlds beyond, Pagans, Wizards and those awaiting 'tangible' proof ...
http://lwlies.com/reviews/a-dark-song/
I guess, maybe it's just humour, @David.... Each to their own, eh....?
One thing I found after working for 33 years in the field of education was that when people want to use different standards for one group than another is that they're usually afraid of what the result will be if they don't. Since Christians believe God and Jesus are one in the holy trinity, the comparison is valid.
If anyone is interested, I had a difficult time throughout my previous life as a Catholic, coming to grips with what exactly 'The Holy Ghost' (3rd player in the trinity) actually was. Eventually, a wonderful Priest and his Curate, explained it to me very simply: It's the Love and Grace, between Father and Son; that unique Relationship and affection bestowed by a Father UPON his son, and subsequently shared out to Humanity by connection.
I rather liked that.
(sigh)
On page 2 @techie said "Buddhism denies Brahman/universal consciousness. Just saying."
You replied: "Lol. You mean you do. Nice try though."
So you clearly didn't accept what @techie was saying ( it's correct, by the way ). From that it was reasonable to assume you thought that Buddhism might teach universal consciousness, in which case it was reasonable to ask you to name a Buddhist school that did ( you couldn't ).
I really think you need let this go, and stop the lame ad-hom attacks. It is completely inappropriate to accuse people of being dishonest and not genuine because they happen to disagree with you.
Tit-for-tat discussions are not appropriate to any thread.
There is one active Moderator here.
That would be me.
If something - or someone - pisses you off, there is a flagging system (I don't know how many times I have to point that out to members) so use that if you have gripes.
Quit resorting to pointless spats that de-rail threads and take them off-topic.
I think we're done here.