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Did Sid ever have fun?
ScottPen
Maryland Veteran
Is there anything in the Pali Canon (or otherwise, this ain't a Theravadan forum) where Sid the dude kicks back or enjoys himself? I imagine there isn't, considering the fact that it would diminish the "perfection" of the Buddha. But c'mon, didn't he ever have a laugh? I believe I remember reading a few scoffs, but a real laugh or maybe even some joy, caused by anything other than the words coming out of his own mouth?
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I don't know about Sid, but Hotei AKA the laughing Buddha was full of laughs
This seems to be a topic that crops up now and then. I think if we want to know whether the Buddha had fun or not, we should look to some of the contemporary Buddhist personages we hold in high esteem, and see if THEY have fun; HHDL, Matthieu Ricard, TNH, Pema Chodron, Tenzin Palmo, Bhikkhu Thannisaro, Ajahn Brahm, and ask them whether they ever have a laugh and a giggle.
I think you'll find they do.
Go and do likewise.
Good point fed. That's what got me thinking about it in the first place.
The Buddha spoke of attachment, and also implemented rules for his Monks and nuns.
There is no doubt in my mind that, as with any other religion, the personal opinions, views and interpretations of those committing his teachings to writing, might well have got in the way of transmitting The Buddha's words as he spoke or intended them, and the agendas of those submitting their writings infiltrated the suttas, thus putting a somewhat 'unenlightened' slant on some matters.
I am of the personal belief (and some research of mine has borne this out) that some of those 'Precepts for the ordained' were either altered or inserted by later 'authorities' to either suit their own whims, or to comply by social mores, attitudes and traditions.
I am certain the Buddha laughed.
I'm sure he laughed at a lot of things, but probably, the fundamental cause for his mirth was *Peoplekind's folly and attachment to cravings.
Take those in all and any form you will....
(* I use the term 'peoplekind' with my tongue firmly embedded in my cheek. Political correctness prevents my use of 'Mankind'. Appeasing egos who deem such distinctions necessary in order to measure every human being as the same as the next, seems to be the current vogue, although to my perception, such extremism is arguably just as bad as sexism itself, and further, illustrates my above point admirably, if you will... )
You need to wait until the Mahāyāna scriptures to get some nice deadpan humour.
At the opening of the Vimalakīrti scripture, the venerable Sāriputra knocks on Vimalakīrti's door.
Vimalakīrti responds: "No one's home."
=|
Let me start with your postscript. I'm cool with political correctness in this way: those who consider being "politically correct" in order to be thoughtful and mindful of the way that their word choice affects other people? Cool. Those who purposefully eschew the notion that their word choice may hold nuanced meaning to folks that have a different frame of reference, just so that they don't have to leave their comfort zone? Not cool. Last, but not least, those who's insecurity and feelings of powerlessness lead them to hyper-sensitive group-thinking self-righteous indignation? Not cool, and they give the rest of us compassionate thinkers/doers a bad rap.
I led with that in order to set up the fact that out of respect for many Buddhists' veneration of the Buddha, I'll be mindfully treading lightly here. So... I believe that the Buddha was intuitive, intelligent, tenacious, charismatic, and kind- and many parts of the buddhadharma that I am ingesting wholeheartedly and practicing seem to me to have dependently arisen from those characteristics. I also believe that the place and time in which he lived generated parts of the buddhadharma that are implausible, thereby inducing my skeptical nature to do some rationalizing and justification in order to allow myself not to throw the baby out with the bath water. But I'm cool with that. That sort of reasoning is endlessly (so far) fascinating to me.
My Dad raised me, by example and encouragement, to be a skeptical free-thinker who isn't apprehensive about challenging authority and who requires things to make sense in order for me to swallow them. This helps me and hurts me in different situations, both of which occur in my dharma practice.
My belief that Gautama was a "regular dude" both allows me to accept his teachings and causes me to question them. It gets in the way of taking refuge, though, but that's off topic so if someone wants to open up that can of worms we can do it in another thread. Anyway, since HHDL is such a prominent figure in Buddhism today I think you're right that he's a useful example of a venerated dharma practitioner who ain't a stick in the mud. To borrow a phrase from @genkaku, I get a stick in my craw when I consider the idea that Gautama's "fundamental cause for his mirth was *Peoplekind's folly and attachment to cravings." That's also what I've noticed in my very scratch-the-surface scriptural study, and _I'd like to think that someone as intuitive, intelligent, tenacious, charismatic, and kind as the Buddha, finds humor in things other than the shortcomings of other people,_ regardless of the universality of those shortcomings. I just don't think I'd like being around that type of scoffing and pompously rueful head-shaking.
I'm trying to work through my tendency to want to poke holes in the veil of perfection that any venerated religious historical figure seems to have covering their faults, but it's hard for me... I just don't trust anyone who presents themselves as faultless. And since I think Gautama was, in the beginning and the end, a regular dude... I'm probably going to have to continue to poke these holes if I'm going to continue to trust his ideas.
My apologies to anyone if these ideas offend, and I know, I know, I'm a heretic and all that.
Thanks, @Vimalajāti... It does seem like the Mahayana scriptures appeal to people who like a little sugar in their coffee.
Thanks, @Shoshin! The only Buddhist image in my house is a hand-carved wooden Hotei. He certainly seems like a dude to have fun with.
Maybe it's just my perceptions but this story of the Buddha always felt to me like he was partially having a go at someone.
@ScottPen A couple of thoughts:
1. If you want a laugh, stick with the Hindus. They are the eldest of the religious flock and as such have a maturity that such new kids as Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. have not yet attained. That is my un-researched assessment.
But on the day of my interview, I was pissed off. Don't ask what I was angry about. I don't recall. Long periods of silent meditation will bring up all sorts of stuff. Anyway, I was pissed as a wet cat when the bell rang and I ascended the stairs for my interview. I entered the room where Soen Roshi sat. I did the requisite bows and settled myself on a cushion perhaps three feet from his. We were face to face.
"Good morning," he opened.
"Good morning," I replied.
"How are you?" he asked mildly.
"Shitty!" I replied with force.
"Every day is a good day," he said. This is the classic answer to one of Zen's many koans. It can be bang-on true or regurgitating bullshit. I chose the latter interpretation. I wasn't in the mood for platitudes.
"Every day is a good day and some days are shitty days!" I spat.
And Soen began to laugh. I mean really laugh, as if I had told him the best dirty joke in the world. This was no CEO, watch-me-be-in-control crap. He sincerely seemed to think something was funny. He laughed and laughed. I was not sure he could stop.
When he finally did stop, he looked me right in the eye.
"You're exactly right," he said. "Every day is a good day, some days are shitty days AND every day is a good day."
And for some reason, he got through to me. I was flummoxed and flabbergasted and the only thing I could do was...
Laugh.
If shit didn't happen then what ??? So every day is a good day, even the shitty ones
I would say sure, he had lots of joy.
For a Buddha, just sitting in meditation is enjoyable. Even just walking in the woods is enjoyable.
I can't help feeling there's something personal in all this @ScottPen - don't you like the Buddha? Have those 'words out of his mouth' hit you on the raw as many times as they have done to me? They are no picnic but I find joy in the elegance and simplicity they offer, it really depends on what you percieve as joy!
@kando, I may have turned a phrase a little harshly there. But yes, I think you're right, perception is important here. Ya know, I just wish I could imagine the guy acting a little goofy or bellowing laughter. Nah, I don't really feel any joy in the scriptures, it's more like peaceful relief.
@kando -- Someplace or other there is a verse that goes
I have always thought the word "playfully" was very important.
[lobster faints] ... now he tells us ...
My favourite Humorous Hindu is Ganeshe, an elephant of chocolate.
https://www.hungryforever.com/eco-friendly-ganesha-chocolate-ganesha/
om gam ganapataye soha
I also like Harry Krishna for comic relief ...
@ScottPen
I'm reminded of this....
"Great Faith and Great Doubt are two ends of a spiritual walking stick. We grip one end with the grasp given to us by our Great Determination. We poke into the underbrush in the dark on our spiritual journey. This act is real spiritual practice — gripping the Faith end and poking ahead with the Doubt end of the stick. If we have no Faith, we have no Doubt. If we have no Determination, we never pick up the stick in the first place.”
~Sensei Sevan Ross~
Peaceful relief is good, and I bet he did act goofy at times but it wasn't recorded
Yes, playfully is the word, those briars can still sting though!
A chocolate Ganesh @lobster - how indulgent is that! I was addicted to indian sweets when I lived there, you really need the sugar in that heat, my favorite festival was always Holi - I remember sitting watching the sunrise early one morning, plastered with paint and drinking sugar cane juice. Unforgettable.
The master sat in the hall with the student.
"My child," the master spoke, "tell me what you saw when you studied the body, feelings, the mind, and phenomena. When you studied embodiment, sensitivity, perceptivity, activity, and mentality?"
"Master" , the student spoke, "I have found this body to be inconstant, impersonal, and unsatisfactory. I have found these feelings to be inconstant, impersonal, and unsatisfactory. Likewise with the mind and phenomena I have found them both inconstant, impersonal, and unsatisfactory, lastly with perceptions and formations I have found them to be likewise. So, I, in these five aggregates of binding have seen no me, and have seen that they are nothing that I own."
A long silence. The master and the student sit.
Calmly, serenely, quite suddenly, the master strikes the student.
A long silence of a different sort. The student rights himself, sits on his cushion. Further uncomfortable pauses.
Eventually, the student asks: "Master, why did you strike me?"
The master serenely responds, "Who? Me? I didn't hit anybody."
shakyamuni aka The Buddha was aware of Hindu deities and Jain teachings. The Jains are hardcore spiritual comedians:
Some have to wear masks because they grin so much ...
I went off the deep end back there @ScottPen and apologise, I admit to finding the dude difficult at times also, I get the feeling he makes a point of it and I'm sure there's quite a bit of insightful leg pulling going on with his hapless recipients in quite a few sutras!
@kando, no apologies necessary. I think I've gotten bogged down with all of the deep thinking and serious thought in my head. Seems like I should lighten up for now
That is brilliant, and I'm offended by how brilliant you can be @lobster - how to ruin a relationship next
Your sincerely @lobster
You have that capacity.
As a a figure of ridicule and laughable spirituality, I frequently find humour in my professed light. In other words tightness and tension around serious points of view, dharma or practice are best dealt with a lighter hold ...
Hey, after the day I had yesterday anyone who handed me something so wonderfully funny would be a light in the darkness!