At Monday evening's group we read from one the Dalai Lama's books (Can't remember which one)...What we found interesting was he more or less said Nirvana is when one is free of all negative thoughts (not his exact words I should add)...and if one thinks about it (pun intended) ...it does make senses....And simplifies the definition somewhat...
Hmm the Twin Verses come to mind (well one take on them anyhow)
After all We are what we think.......but then again......we are not our thoughts
Some food for thought perhaps ...What do you think ???
Comments
I try not to.
Old habits die hard
I think when you have found nirvana it is easier not to associate yourself so closely with the mind, and the mind is more quiet, except when you choose to call on it to perform. It certainly seems to be possible to still think negative thoughts, or critical thoughts.
Negative thoughts so it would seem, are for want of a better term unwholesome and counterproductive ... ...
One of my favorite sutta references AN 4.35
Although. it depends on how you define "negative thought". Some people might say that "everyone will die one day" is a "negative thought". Other people would not consider that to be a negative thought at all.
Positively No!
Equinimity is a pause and choose capacity. Free will if you will ...
Here is the teaching of the Heart Sutra which may be useful:
Ay carumba ...
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/7546/heart-sutra
A Zen teacher said: the conditioned life is the functioning display of unconditioned. The unconditioned is the essential nature of the conditioned life.
"Two is the essence's function. Not two is the function's essence." -Ven Jízàng
@Shoshin said
One can get rid of negative thoughts, and yet not be free of them - they can become a sort of negative mindset that is harder to get rid of than the thoughts themselves - like the dark raincloud hovering over Joe Btsplk in the old Lil Abner comics.
Simplification of terms is useful - gives you something to work on, a target to aim for - but it doesn't really simplify the path.
Very true @Fosdick
Not thinking lovely thoughts, avoiding unwholesome neural meanderings? Developing karmic saintly empty Bodhi-Mind is all very well for the dharma hard nuts. They reside in Nutty Nirvana Mindfulness but what about us Buddhist plebs?
We have to practice mind settling - no-thought, no-arising. Hence meditation. Who knew?
Oh the humanity!
Wait a minute, @Shoshin. I think we would need to define "negative thoughts", first. Do you (or did the DL) mean--ruminating on negativity? That's attachment to negative thoughts. I agree that attachment to negativity isn't compatible with Nirvana.
But negative thoughts arise, if briefly, in response to, for example, wrongdoing observed. The Buddha said we should speak out in the face of wrongdoing. So when we're addressing wrongdoing, we're necessarily entertaining negative thought about the act or behavior we're speaking out against. Negative thoughts can be constructive, perhaps even "wholesome" if directed toward ending the suffering of others. If we're making use of a negative thought in order to catalyze an effort toward ending suffering, that's a good thing.
So, I feel that more info is necessary about the material you read. Context is everything. Pretending there's no harm being perpetrated in the world, and sitting on our cloud of Enlightened Bliss all the time, ignoring the Samsaric world in order to avoid having negative thoughts, sounds like escapism, not Nirvana. That's not what the Bodhisattva vow is about.
Lots of food for thought, here. Great discussion topic.
I think we need insight into what is good and bad. But before that we need concentration for that insight to arrive. And this meditation is process of letting things settle and seeing what is there. We can easily have a 'monkey mind' version of deciding what is good and bad that is just mental chatter. As in 'oh no I am having thoughts'.
When negative thoughts was mentioned n the book, I took its meaning to be lacking positive or affirmative qualities eg, thinking negatively about someone or something...
However I'll find out the book title at this evening's meeting ...I think it might be "Many Ways to Nirvana"
Nibbana=Cessation of thoughts both positive and negative. It transcends.
"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana.".
Attachment to pink unicorns and fluffy new age rainbow thoughts are another form of ruminating (I would suggest karmically more helpful but also an attachment)
In the stillness of mind from practice, genuine or unattached expression arises. In this sense it is calm and right for the situation.
The Right Concentration that @Jeffrey mentions of a disciplined mind, moves away from ruminating, wallowing, indulging and becomes empowered by stillness and quiet as @pegembara illustrates ...
The plan. We haz it ...
The book was "The Eight Verses of Mind Training" Unfortunately the group member didn't bring the book to this Monday's meeting, so I can't give the precise location of where the Dalai Lama mentions things along the line of being free of all negative thoughts in the book and how we the group came to this conclusion ...
However I guess some who are familiar with theses verses will no doubt see the connection relating to one must seek to be free of all negative thoughts ( negative being unwholesome thoughts that wish to harm others and so forth) just as some may not see it this way at all...
Some teachers use the term "The Eight Verses of "Thought" Transformation"
But each to their own thoughts I guess
Being free of all negative thoughts may simplify the definition of the state of Nirvana but achieving this goal is just as daunting... so it would seem
I love the Eight Verses, I used to say it everyday as a part of my prayers.
can nirvana be where there is a low there is a high.such as a sneeze. such as deep sleep after overworked all day. a warm bath to relieve the ache.nirvana can be real.,concreate,from the abstract,imo.
nirvanic feeling tone,the buddha siddharth suggest.the feeling tone wins out the negative feeling tone that those concreate example suggest.
"This is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor between the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones and the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person."
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don't charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.
Painful feelings are neither welcomed nor rejected. The same goes for pleasant ones. Don't be a masochist.
https://www.mehermount.org/story-blog/2016/hiss-but-dont-bite
Well said @pegembara ??
Someone once summarised her years of listening to dharma talks in this most valuable advice:
‘Hello thought, goodbye thought!’
?