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My "I" is in space

JaySonJaySon VeteranFlorida Veteran

Here's a practice I find helpful for eradicating attachment and ignorance.

These aggregates are the base to be labeled "I". They are not the "I."

Once you've examined your aggregates and found them to be devoid of self, devoid of an "I", focus on space-like emptiness single-pointedly. Just rest in the absence of the label "I". This is called space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness.

Your experience should be space-like, but you're not focusing on nothing. It's merely the absence of the conceptual "I" that you have been mentally projecting onto your aggregates.

The "I" is just a conceptual elaboration you have been projecting onto your aggregates. It was never really "there" in the first place. So you're not losing anything. Your "I" has only ever been a label, existing in name only, a concept, mere appearance.

If you're not yet certain about the fact of impermanence and non self, go back to the scriptures and also examine the ever changing aggregates until you are certain they lack inherent existence.

Once you're certain, practice space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness and rest in it.

Once you're certain about emptiness and have practiced space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness of the "I" as described above, you can use the following meditation to quickly rest in space-like emptiness...

Say "My I is in space."

Throw the "I" (the label) into space and rest in space-like emptiness.

Shoshin

Comments

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    @JaySon said:
    Here's a practice I find helpful for eradicating attachment and ignorance.

    These aggregates are the base to be labeled "I". They are not the "I."

    What does this mean? What is the "I" aside from the aggregates and what is there to put the aggregates aside?

    I am not trying to be a pain nor will I try to debate your point, I am just honestly curious as to your take.

  • JaySonJaySon Veteran Florida Veteran

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:
    Here's a practice I find helpful for eradicating attachment and ignorance.

    These aggregates are the base to be labeled "I". They are not the "I."

    What does this mean? What is the "I" aside from the aggregates and what is there to put the aggregates aside?

    I am not trying to be a pain nor will I try to debate your point, I am just honestly curious as to your take.

    The I is just a conceptual elaboration here. It's not on the aggregates when you examine the aggregates. So you're putting aside the conceptual elaboration of the I. It was never there, but the label was projected onto the aggregates. As long as you understand the I is just the conventional label to identify these aggregates, then this is the same thing.

    The problem is when you believe the I is more than a conceptual elaboration, more than a mere label.

  • pegembarapegembara Veteran Veteran
    edited January 29

    Be in the knowing or being in open awareness.

    “Present awareness is empty, open, and luminous; not a concrete substance, yet not nothing. Empty, yet it is perfectly cognizant, lucid, aware.”

    https://www.thewayofmeditation.com.au/blog/the-incredible-mind-altering-meditation-of-sky-gazing/

    "Bhikkhus, when a noble follower who has heard (the truth) sees thus, he finds estrangement in the eye, finds estrangement in forms, finds estrangement in eye-consciousness, finds estrangement in eye-contact, and whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful- nor-pleasant that arises with eye-contact for its indispensable condition, in that too he finds estrangement.

    "He finds estrangement in the ear... in sounds...

    "He finds estrangement in the nose... in odors...

    "He finds estrangement in the tongue... in flavors...

    "He finds estrangement in the body... in tangibles...

    "He finds estrangement in the mind, finds estrangement in ideas, finds estrangement in mind-consciousness, finds estrangement in mind-contact, and whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with mind-contact for its indispensable condition, in that too he finds estrangement.

    "When he finds estrangement, passion fades out. With the fading of passion, he is liberated.

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.028.nymo.html

    lobsterFosdickDavid
  • lobsterlobster Veteran Veteran

    Hope this is helpful ... B)

    You might ask, “I’ve been practicing for ten years now—exactly when is this going to hap­pen to me?” The difference between delusion and enlightenment is only a moment away. In an instant, you can be free from the constructs of your identity and see through the veil of your fabrications.

    https://www.lionsroar.com/you-are-already-enlightened/

    David
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    @JaySon said:

    The problem is when you believe the I is more than a conceptual elaboration, more than a mere label.

    What have you decided to do with it now that you've seen through the illusion?

    Shunning it seems like a waste when it can be so useful.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    @pegembara said:
    Be in the knowing or being in open awareness.

    “Present awareness is empty, open, and luminous; not a concrete substance, yet not nothing. Empty, yet it is perfectly cognizant, lucid, aware.”

    https://www.thewayofmeditation.com.au/blog/the-incredible-mind-altering-meditation-of-sky-gazing/

    "Bhikkhus, when a noble follower who has heard (the truth) sees thus, he finds estrangement in the eye, finds estrangement in forms, finds estrangement in eye-consciousness, finds estrangement in eye-contact, and whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful- nor-pleasant that arises with eye-contact for its indispensable condition, in that too he finds estrangement.

    "He finds estrangement in the ear... in sounds...

    "He finds estrangement in the nose... in odors...

    "He finds estrangement in the tongue... in flavors...

    "He finds estrangement in the body... in tangibles...

    "He finds estrangement in the mind, finds estrangement in ideas, finds estrangement in mind-consciousness, finds estrangement in mind-contact, and whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with mind-contact for its indispensable condition, in that too he finds estrangement.

    "When he finds estrangement, passion fades out. With the fading of passion, he is liberated.

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.028.nymo.html

    I like to note that finding estrangement in the body, Buddha still used it to turn the wheel and prescribe the method to the rest of us.

  • pegembarapegembara Veteran Veteran
    edited January 31

    That's where everyone starts from. No getting around this.

    "Mara, although the eyes, ears, nose etc are yours, I am using those very things to ultimately be free of them."

    lobsterDavid
  • lobsterlobster Veteran Veteran

    ... and now for a cryptic interlude ... ?

    My meme is mimi unforgotten ?
    My I is in Space but knot in Nowt ?
    My circle is full but without a scenter ?
    My zen was then ?
    Now How ?
    do I smell? ?

    ... normal service is now resumed ... ?

    Kerome
  • JaySonJaySon Veteran Florida Veteran

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    The problem is when you believe the I is more than a conceptual elaboration, more than a mere label.

    What have you decided to do with it now that you've seen through the illusion?

    Shunning it seems like a waste when it can be so useful.

    Vipassana is useful for gaining wisdom, but so is resting in space-like emptiness. Why would anyone want to rest in space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness of the I? To diminish self-grasping.

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited January 31

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    The problem is when you believe the I is more than a conceptual elaboration, more than a mere label.

    What have you decided to do with it now that you've seen through the illusion?

    Shunning it seems like a waste when it can be so useful.

    Vipassana is useful for gaining wisdom, but so is resting in space-like emptiness. Why would anyone want to rest in space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness of the I? To diminish self-grasping.

    Ok, but that's not really what I meant. You've seen through the illusion and are being dispassioned with the "I". So what now? Do you get up from your tree and use the illusion?

    Is enlightenment the endgame or do mountains once again serve as mountains on the Middle way?

    At some point it serves to let go of letting go too. It is possible to be grasping at diminishing self grasping to the detriment of sufferings cessation.

    I don't mean to imply you would do that or anything and I do get carried away so I won't be offended if you simply disregard.

    Just thought it could be a decent talking point but I've been wrong before.

    Very, very wrong.

    JaySon
  • lobsterlobster Veteran Veteran

    @David said:

    Is enlightenment the endgame or do mountains once again serve as mountains on the Middle way?

    Enlightenment is a good start.

    At some point it serves to let go of letting go too.

    Eyes on the road ...

    Just thought it could be a decent talking point but I've been wrong before.

    Very, very wrong.

    Me too. Well said. B)

    David
  • JaySonJaySon Veteran Florida Veteran

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    @David said:

    @JaySon said:

    The problem is when you believe the I is more than a conceptual elaboration, more than a mere label.

    What have you decided to do with it now that you've seen through the illusion?

    Shunning it seems like a waste when it can be so useful.

    Vipassana is useful for gaining wisdom, but so is resting in space-like emptiness. Why would anyone want to rest in space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness of the I? To diminish self-grasping.

    Ok, but that's not really what I meant. You've seen through the illusion and are being dispassioned with the "I". So what now? Do you get up from your tree and use the illusion?

    I'm aiming for the union of appearance and emptiness in which you always see everything as empty and impermanent during meditation break. Unfortunately I am addicted to frivolous speech, so I lose focus during the day. The ideal practice during meditation break, though, would be mindfulness of everything being like a dream or an illusion. I try to do this when I remember to at work.

    Everything is like an illusion. It all appears permanent and inherently existent. In reality everything is impermanent and empty of inherent existence. So, I'd say my goal is the union of appearance and emptiness in which appearance and emptiness merge. Appearance is emptiness and emptiness is appearance. This way you are mindful of ultimate reality but you still live within conventions, like a king acting in a play who acts according to convention yet you are also always aware and understanding of the ultimate.

    David
  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran
    edited February 2

    Ah there it is, nice. I like being able to see how others find the Middle Way. Thanks and sorry to pry.

    Emptiness implies potential to me. If there were no emptiness, there would be no potential and nothing would ever happen period. Because things are empty, we have the ability to wake up so I view emptiness as a source of great joy.

    Emptiness of self can point to the lack of identification but it also alludes to self awareness being an illusion. Self awareness is the ability to distinguish between one and the world but that distinction is a false one.

    To me, it makes sense that that illusion can be used as a tool of exploration once we see it as such.

    If it weren't for the disease of us and "them" we would be much further ahead in ending suffering so I think we would be better off expanding the sense of self to include us all rather than quashing it. No reason we can't use this illusory spectrum of infinite perspectives to our advantage and benefit.

    Nirvana is said to be lacking identification but the dharma points to the Middle Way and skillful means.

    Seven billion heads are better than one.

    JaySon
  • herbieherbie Veteran Veteran

    @JaySon said:
    Here's a practice I find helpful for eradicating attachment and ignorance.

    These aggregates are the base to be labeled "I". They are not the "I."

    Once you've examined your aggregates and found them to be devoid of self, devoid of an "I", focus on space-like emptiness single-pointedly. Just rest in the absence of the label "I". This is called space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness.

    Your experience should be space-like, but you're not focusing on nothing. It's merely the absence of the conceptual "I" that you have been mentally projecting onto your aggregates.

    The "I" is just a conceptual elaboration you have been projecting onto your aggregates. It was never really "there" in the first place. So you're not losing anything. Your "I" has only ever been a label, existing in name only, a concept, mere appearance.

    If you're not yet certain about the fact of impermanence and non self, go back to the scriptures and also examine the ever changing aggregates until you are certain they lack inherent existence.

    Once you're certain, practice space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness and rest in it.

    Once you're certain about emptiness and have practiced space-like meditative equipoise on emptiness of the "I" as described above, you can use the following meditation to quickly rest in space-like emptiness...

    Say "My I is in space."

    Throw the "I" (the label) into space and rest in space-like emptiness.

    Dear Dharma friend JaySon,

    I find your intro problematic. It reads: 'Here's a practice I find helpful' but you do not state where that practice is from.
    Don't misunderstand me, you are free to set up your own practice as you experience it to be helpful for you. But I think you should openly declare 1. if it is a practice you developed on your own, 2. if it is a practice you developed through modifying a traditional practice or 3. if it is an authentic traditional practice.
    In cases 2 and 3 you should provide information about the traditional practice in question.

    Why do I think so? I think so because original traditional practices have been applied for a long time, many teachers and students being involved, and have proven to be effective and there are teachers at present who can clarify misunderstandings as to these practices and instruct individuals to do it right through detailed explanations.

    I think readers here should know whether this practice is based on hundreds of years of experience within a tradition or whether this practice is your product.

    Thank you for your understanding <3

  • KundoKundo Veteran Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @herbie - we're not in a class here. We can offer opinions without having to convince others why it's right or not. I get you're new here. Many of us have been here a long time, so we settle into the flow all the time. Maybe you should observe at times and see what kind of sangha we are and if we suit you.

    Thank you for your understanding <3

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