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Due diligence to grace?

DavidDavid some guy Veteran

Heyyo. I'm just wondering if anybody knows when due diligence becomes second nature.

It seems that every time I let my guard down I end up saying or doing something unskillful and so I'm sitting here thinking about clear skies while using clouds to perceive.

There must be a point at which the raft is abandoned and awareness is our natural state just as there must be a difference between striving for wakefulness and being awake.

I'm not rightly sure why I'm posting this so I apologize. I'm at a point where I need a retreat or even just a vacation from everything but there is just no way I can get away from the responsibilities of life even for one weekend.

I'm just polishing and polishing the glass and after these years I seem to just reek of the effort.

When does due diligence turn to grace and where can one turn in a beaten and ruined raft?

Comments

  • DavidDavid some guy Veteran

    Hmm... Maybe that's in the wrong category.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited April 28

    I’ve wondered about this as well, I don’t have an answer for it. But I’ve often found effort in mindfulness to be counter productive. Just have a cup of tea, relax, and be.

    Often if you try and strengthen your concentration you find you are just tightening the muscles around your eyes or elsewhere.

    KundoDavidadamcrossley
  • Lee82Lee82 Veteran

    That's a similar thought process to me @federica. I think this life may be my first exposure to the Buddha and his teachings. Whatever progress I make in this life gives me a head start in the next so I'm not starting all over again. I'm amazed with the state I am in now compared to 5 years ago, or 30 years ago, and that's without serious practice. At some point I will take up more regular and serious practice and who knows where it will lead me.

    personDavid
  • ZeroZero Veteran

    @David said:
    Heyyo. I'm just wondering if anybody knows when due diligence becomes second nature.

    It seems that every time I let my guard down I end up saying or doing something unskillful and so I'm sitting here thinking about clear skies while using clouds to perceive.

    There must be a point at which the raft is abandoned and awareness is our natural state just as there must be a difference between striving for wakefulness and being awake.

    I'm not rightly sure why I'm posting this so I apologize. I'm at a point where I need a retreat or even just a vacation from everything but there is just no way I can get away from the responsibilities of life even for one weekend.

    I'm just polishing and polishing the glass and after these years I seem to just reek of the effort.

    When does due diligence turn to grace and where can one turn in a beaten and ruined raft?

    I think that while one is alive, there are actions and consequences - as actions are constant, hence attention and mindfulness must also be constant - in a way, the difference between striving and being is a matter of perspective - the former may wish to be the latter however the irony is that the latter is the acceptance of the former - wishes thus are distractions.
    I think I would say, take it with grace rather than look for grace as an escape.
    One would otherwise be waiting for a saviour.

    personDavid
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @David said:
    Hmm... Maybe that's in the wrong category.

    Maybe
    https://www.zenmister.com/nirvana-now/

    Maybe not.

    @David said:
    When does due diligence turn to grace and where can one turn in a beaten and ruined raft?

    Now.
    . . . oh you heard that one?

    Not yet! Maybe not ever. Now what?
    Chop, chop. Carry water ... <3
    http://www.interluderetreat.com/meditate/chop.htm

    BunksDavid
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @David said:
    Heyyo. I'm just wondering if anybody knows when due diligence becomes second nature.

    It seems that every time I let my guard down I end up saying or doing something unskillful and so I'm sitting here thinking about clear skies while using clouds to perceive.

    There must be a point at which the raft is abandoned and awareness is our natural state just as there must be a difference between striving for wakefulness and being awake.

    I'm not rightly sure why I'm posting this so I apologize. I'm at a point where I need a retreat or even just a vacation from everything but there is just no way I can get away from the responsibilities of life even for one weekend.

    I'm just polishing and polishing the glass and after these years I seem to just reek of the effort.

    When does due diligence turn to grace and where can one turn in a beaten and ruined raft?

    Every now and again as we paddle our raft across Samsara's rough waters, we may find ourselves riding the crest of a wave which gives us a glimpse of the land ahead "Nirvana" (land ahoy) but if we are not careful, expectations may arise, and if so, so could the wave, turning it into a gigantic Dukkha dumper, causing the raft to come crashing down 'almost' capsizing it...However, with right effort we manage to stay on the raft and hold on to the paddle and continue paddling in the direction of land...

    These Dukkha waves are (so it would seem) making their presence felt @David ....Keep on paddling...

    Due diligence may becomes second nature.... when we least expect it....

    lobsterpersonDavid
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the void Veteran

    I feel you, I've despaired many times thinking of the effort I make only to seemingly not get anywhere or lose ground. I think what has helped was reflecting on where I'd end up if I didn't keep trying and remembering that this too shall pass, things won't always be so difficult. I really do recommend finding a real life sangha if you can, spending an hour or two a week in a positive and uplifting environment really helps keep the battery charged.

    What can also help is to try to take a more process oriented approach, try to focus less on the results and more on the practical steps you need to take to reach that goal. When motivation flags and despair or frustration raise up just take the next step, one step at a time, then when its time, take the next step.

    lobsterDavidZero
  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    david,i feel ya about effort.yes go on a retreat,like your neighborhood park,find a place and be.do you do sitting meditation?perhaps some suggestion.just sitting,shift the functioning mind--thinking --and be with any sense organ of your choice.seeing or hearing,etc.bring attention or direct awareness towards the sense organ.the point of the exercise,is to develop the habit of being aware.it may lead to numerous insight.it makes us aware of the functioning vehicle or body.of course this is dharma 101 for us. to experience the dynamic of constant perminence and imperminence.

    also grace is the essence of emptiness ,imo.the grace of life has helped my walk.by no means am i a perfectionist . looking at life,there is a rhyme and a rythum.dao is of interest.may i suggest, investigate the nature of grace.look at any nature made element.this will make us aware the as thich nat hahn--sorry bad spelling--said interbeing.all things are interelated.

    importanty,be aware we won.being decent people,is a victory in itself.time and grace or emptiness whose nature,imo ,is to give.as buddha suggest the dharma is a safe bet in the here and now and the here after.my advise ,work and rest,until we experience as the gnostic jesus eluded to rest and motion.rest is essence of emptiness and motion is function of any vehicle such as our body.the body is the vehicle for awakening.the point we are laypeople but the sky the limit.

    DavidlobsterKundo
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Thus have I heard:

    DavidKundolobster
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited April 29

    I'll say after step 5 of the Ox herding pictures.

    The whip and rope are necessary,
    Else he might stray off down
    some dusty road.
    Being well-trained, he becomes
    naturally gentle.
    Then, unfettered, he obeys his master.

    From another perspective, it when one attain the 2nd bhumi.

    Nāgārjuna,

    The second is called the Stainless
    Because all ten [virtuous] actions
    Of body, speech, and mind are stainless
    And they naturally abide in those [deeds of ethics].
    Through the maturation of those [good qualities]
    The perfection of ethics becomes supreme.
    They become Universal Monarchs helping beings,
    Masters of the glorious four continents and of the seven precious objects.

    lobsterDavid
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    OH OH OH HUM
    Bravo @seeker242

    Exactly right.
    It does happen. Many of us know this from personal experience. We are on a promise and guarantee. We do not abandon our family as the tormented and anguished Buddha did. They become part of our five a day ... <3

    I am on retreat. Away from the turmoil BUT also my Greater Practice. I will dedicate mantra for your peace and well being.
    OH OH OH HUM

    “Others will adhere to their own views, hold on to them tenaciously, and relinquish them with difficulty; we shall not adhere to our own views or hold on to them tenaciously, but shall relinquish them easily” (MN 8.12.44).
    https://frederickmeditation.com/wisdom-anatta-amidst-political-turmoil/

    Bonus Track ...

    OH OH OH HUM

    ... or then again ...

    personDavid
  • QuandariusQuandarius Explorer

    Every time you discover that your attention has been wandering, that you have indulged in wool-gathering, that moment is a moment of awareness.

    Davidlobster
  • techietechie India Veteran

    I think we underestimate the karma we've accumulated over many lives. Karmas take time to ripen. We need to bear them patiently. We expect mindfulness or meditation to do the trick. But karma is powerful. It can't be overcome by meditation. It has to be gone through. No grace or God from above can help.

    David
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Dear friends and fellow sheeple,

    There I was gathering wool (trying to hide a woolf) when I realised I am just a dharma sheep in disguise. :3
    https://www.treetopzencenter.org/coyote-enters-the-garden/

    David
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @techie said:
    I think we underestimate the karma we've accumulated over many lives. Karmas take time to ripen. We need to bear them patiently.

    I’m not so sure... karma if it exists seems to manifest through life events, which means that being reclusive and withdrawing from the stream of society events is perhaps not good.

    We expect mindfulness or meditation to do the trick. But karma is powerful. It can't be overcome by meditation. It has to be gone through. No grace or God from above can help.

    Karma can’t be seen or felt, or observed or proved. So ehipassiko, can I see it for myself? No I cannot. While the effects of meditation are easy to feel, and seem to be beneficial.

  • techietechie India Veteran

    @Kerome said:

    @techie said:
    I think we underestimate the karma we've accumulated over many lives. Karmas take time to ripen. We need to bear them patiently.

    I’m not so sure... karma if it exists seems to manifest through life events, which means that being reclusive and withdrawing from the stream of society events is perhaps not good.

    We expect mindfulness or meditation to do the trick. But karma is powerful. It can't be overcome by meditation. It has to be gone through. No grace or God from above can help.

    Karma can’t be seen or felt, or observed or proved. So ehipassiko, can I see it for myself? No I cannot. While the effects of meditation are easy to feel, and seem to be beneficial.

    Since this is a Buddhist forum, I thought I could use a word like karma and get away with it. My bad. Seriously, let's say there's no such thing as karma. So what? Events happen, over which we seem to have little control. Did you plan your birth in a certain family? No, it just happened. Events keep happening. Good things, bad things, all things. Do we have control over them? The illusion of control, yes. Actual control? That's up to you to answer.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 3

    @techie said: Do we have control over them? The illusion of control, yes. Actual control? That's up to you to answer.

    Some yes, some no.

    "Life is like a shopping trolley: You go partly where you want to, and partly where the damn thing takes you."

    You wanted dog food? You got dishwasher liquid.

    make the most of it.

    lobsterDavid
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