Considering Buddhism and money
Jeroen
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlands Veteran
I was wondering about this. I find that the more I am involved with my finances and planning for the future, the more thoughts of money end up kicking around in my head. It seems really easy to get attached to that. Which is obviously a bad thing as far as Buddhism is concerned.
In a way it makes me concerned about a lot of the world I see around me. There seems to be a lot of materialism and money orientation going around in the world today, even compared to say a hundred years ago when a lot of people were still very much into religion. Nowadays here in the western world people are confronted with the need to work for money in a capitalist jobs market in their teens.
It’s the pressure of living in a modern system, where economic modes of thinking are disseminated in all kinds of ways. The world becomes very clinical. I’m pretty convinced it’s not healthy.
Have you ever considered the effects of this on your own Buddhism?
Comments
With my being self employed there isn't an explicit guarantee that work will always be available. As such money can come in in waves, sometimes busy, sometimes not. I've had to learn to keep an even keel and not get excited by peaks and worried during lulls. So, for me, in some ways my work has had some benefit in developing equanimity.
And yeah, I think having to work and think about money does have an impact on my Buddhist practice. I've thought about becoming a monk but haven't done so yet, so maybe it hasn't been so bad, working for money beats working for food enough to live.
Society puts pressures on us today just as it did in Buddha's time. Its up to us, just as it was up to the people then, to take responsibility for our own attitudes and adjust our way of relating to it.
I am poor.
Makes me rich in other ways.
For example I can afford to not be sanghafied, can get up early enough to have London to myself and the crows.
Had a home made healthy pastry for breakfast.
It is raining at the moment. For free.
I am rich poor
As a friend of mine puts it, "Sometimes, it pays to remember we're upright, walking and above ground, to reap the blessings of the day"...
I have many feelings about this subject. In some ways I’m disappointed the world isn’t better organised, that people cannot follow their dreams without being subjected to these pressures. I’m sad that the world is so full of people. I’m depressed that people keep coming back to greed and personal status ladders to climb.
I suppose I am an idealist, I’d like to see the world as a garden where we can all do the things that bring us fulfillment without worrying about paying for housing, food, or compulsory insurance.
For every wonderful idea, there will always be someone looking for the loophole, or chink in the armour, to exploit it to their end. The increase in Security measures when dealing with your own bank account, and the recent massive overhaul of Data Protection Laws, shows that sadly, that ideology is a distant and unattainable pipe dream.
I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I think along the same lines, but as the saying goes, "By all means call on God, but at least, row away from the rocks".
Our local Council and community members all worked hard this year to participate in the "Britain in Bloom" regional competitions, but under the scrutiny of CCTV, it is evident that a small minority of hooligans and ne'er-do-wells will stop at nothing to ruin other people's hard work and achievements, out of sheer desire to spoil and destroy. They uproot and rip plants, destroy hanging baskets and shatter planters simply because they want to.
Look in any sphere of business, industry Religion and Politics and to some extent, in some way, the same scenario is playing. In more subtle and sophisticated ways, certainly. But wherever you get a plus, there's a minus lurking.
We just have to keep piling on the pluses and hope we drown the minuses eventually....
Not really. How other people behave really has nothing to do with me.
Really excellent post, @person. Thank you for sharing it.
That's not strictly true. How you treat people, react to them, or utilise their services has everything to do with you. If you are part of society, you have an effect, and as such, affects you.
Consequently, your Actions have an effect on others. And the effect you have on others, bounces back at you. Life is not a one-way street, and whatever you do, creates ripples and consequences.
So the way people behave, like it or not, DOES affect you. Unless of course, you are a self-sufficient hermit living in the wilderness.
Which I somehow doubt.
I feel in the sense @seeker242 means it, our behavour is not dependent to others motivations and attachments. We may live in a money/youth/status obsessed culture. However we can be independent of such fashionable sheeple behavour.
We are Buddha enriched ...
Yes, that's it. My personal practice is going to be the same practice, regardless of what society is doing or not doing. Still going to keep precepts either way. Still going to meditate either way, still going to make efforts to abstain from what's unskillful either way.
But these other people are potentially members of our Sangha. Ultimately their problems are our problems, and educating them would improve the lot of all people on the planet.
There's a wisdom story I've heard Ajahn Brahm tell about 3 different stone masons working on a cathedral.
I also remember a Hidden Brain podcast about finding meaning in work (transcript). The example I'm thinking about was hospital janitors. For some it was just a way to make money, but for some others they took it as if they were also part of the patient care. They would occasionally rearrange the patients room (artwork, etc.), make sure it was clean for their visitors, make sure the ceiling above the bed was clean. Just as in the story of the stonemasons the janitors who thought of themselves as helping in the patients healing, were happier and more fulfilled with their work.
Definitely, but helping others is already the default Buddhist way to begin with. Helping others is already part of the practice, even if society at large is overly attached to money and material things etc., or not, that would still be the case either way
You noticed?
I stopped watching TV and its adverts or reading consumerist magazines. The economic dissemination still impacts, youtube is now inundating uploaded content with targeted advertising. I believe you can pay not to be brainwashed, which is ironic.
Mindfulness does not mean a mind full of garbage.
GIGO as we used to say in computing. Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Mindfulness is a process.
and now a message from my sponsor
We have been raised to believe that happiness comes from outside of ourselves, so it is easy to become materialistic. It sounds SO easy ... just get the right "things" in life, and happiness is supposedly guaranteed.
It would be nice if it was that easy.
And because life is uncertain, we often seek safety from this uncertainty, by seeking financial security. Part of the Buddhist practice is to recognize when we are seeking "ground under our feet" (as Pema Chodron puts it) ... a relief from our fear about uncertainty and impermanence. So the more we seek TO find security, the less we are able to relax into uncertainty.
Also, our brain spits out whatever we put into it. The more we attend to something, the more it becomes an automatic habit for our brain pathways. This is why Buddhism is not just when you sit on your meditation cushion, but a 24/7 activity. The more you feed Buddhism into your mind, the more that is what comes out of your subconscious.
I feel this someone sent me, is relevant ...
It discusses a people and community centric model, that value the customer and employees.
Sounds good to me ...
Yes. It's often why I sometimes wish to enter a monastery somewhere. The modern way of doing things doesn't seem healthy to me, and I find myself unhappy most of the time.
Yes, although I'm very fortunate, compared to the rest of the world. I think those of us who live in rich countries forget that sometimes... My parents were wise and raised us giving thanks for small things. Like a cup of tea. Like the beauty of the clouds. Like the fact that we were able bodied and had strong muscles for climbing trees and running. Whenever I get caught up in money worries, I give thanks for what I do have, and I end up feeling rich.
One of my mom's favorite books to read to us was The Table Where Rich People Sit, by Byrd Baylor. I'm grateful for my mom teaching me to get into the habit of gratitude early. I aim to do that for my daughter.
This kind of relates to a personal decision I made this week, when I was first ill with Schizophrenia I was in a right state, my CMHT and support workers got me high rate disability living allowance which was worth about an extra £700 a month on top of standard social security rates, I was given it for life. After a few years due to a change in meds and cutting out most of my boozing I got better, the money was still coming in and I did nothing to change that - mainly spent most of it on video games, dharma books and computer hardware. I had a welfare review this week, I could have not showered, shaved or changed my clothes for a month and gone in pretending I'm to paranoid to go out and spend all day staring at the wall and got the extra money easily - a lot of people do, I didn't go to the review so they will cut the extra moneyand felt really happy afterwards and my meditation has improved no end.
When I was involved in drugs, all my stoner friends faked mental illness so they didn't have to work and got disability, I didn't and ended up with a mental illness. My conclusion I'd rather be poor and honest when it came down to it. I feel better for not violating the precepts by blagging.
Proud of you, @Zenshin ....
To quote @Bunks , quoting the Dhammapada...
Bravo @Zenshin
Inspiring for us crazies. We will be made A Whole
lot better by our efforts.
Iz plan. Stay sane.
There are always choices to be made. These days I'm content with a simple and cheap lifestyle.
For me it pays to remember money is just a means to some ends and not the goal itself.
I still get pretty stressed out about the finances. At this rate I won't ever retire.
Keep up the frugal enrichment. Give away what you don't need.
https://www.freecycle.org/
Become enriched
It’s funny, I have to work harder and earn more, to have more money to be able to do less, take it easy and not concern myself with money!
I would love to have a caravan in SW Scotland, my favourite place in the world with some incredible remote and beautiful places to retreat from the world. But I’ll have to work very hard for the next few years to make a family retreat like that a reality.
I have a dream of living in an RV, moving around the country as I like. I was in the Arizona recently, out in the desert, and came across a group of nomads living simply out on public land. My family that I was with didn't have a very favorable opinion of them but I had a sense of wanting to join them.
There was a programme on TV in the UK a while ago about a community living on land that had once been used, I believe, for military exercises... They didn't use any amenities, so paid no taxes, and were as self sufficient as you could get... I forget how they actually ate and drank, but it was a seemingly blissful existence, with no ties... bit tough, rough and ready though...
Sounds pretty cool. I was moving house and ended up with many boxes of stuff, everything from linen sheets to kitchenware. It’s amazing how much stuff we accumulate.
It is said (and I believe it, because I've tried it, and it's true as far as I am concerned) that if you pack a box with stuff you hardly use, and you leave it in the loft or garage for 6 months - if you can't remember what's in the box, you never needed it anyway. If you've lived without it for 6 months without missing it.... then a lifetime won't make any difference, will it?
Got rid of so much extraneous stuff.
I have 2 sets of bedlinen in constant use. Wash one, use the other. I have a spare set, still in its original packet, never used yet, but there 'just in case'.
If I have family staying, (actually, the only 'family' who comes to stay is my daughter and grandson!) they know well enough to either bring their own bedding, or use a sleeping bag. They have absolutely no problem doing that...
@federica that's a good idea... And then I can give away a box of mystery items away on freecycle!
How about establishing a NewBuddhist commune? Fields of organic vegetables, a meditation hall, secluded hermitages, a retreat centre to bring in some money... It’s fanciful but not impossible.