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Politics!
Quidditch
Earth Explorer
in Philosophy
I know. Controversial subject. I know you all can handle it with grace and compassion.
How do your Buddhist views translate to your politics? Do you think there's a place where politics and Buddhism can intermingle, or do you think they're totally separate? Do you think any political leaning is more conducive to the practice of Buddhism, and why?
I have been putting myself in different political shoes trying to understand recently, and have been fascinated with the POVs. I'm curious to hear about your stories. (@federica if this is a not ok post, please let me know...)
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Comments
Vote Green!!! 😁👍🙏
Yes, I do. You can read some of my recent thoughts about it in a similar thread starting here.
I try to keep politics out of my spiritual path.
In all honesty I give politics very little thought.
My vote is one in 17 million in my country so I try and only give it about that much of my time!!!
I'm not what you would call a Political animal at all. I haven't cast a vote in over 30 years, because in my opinion, It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in. I trust them very little and feel the majority of Politicians say what they believe we want to hear, do not make any compelling promises or assurances, avoid and evade answering direct questions and are notoriously bad at keeping their word.
That's not to say I have no interest, but the above observations keep being proven and confirmed time and time again. In this Clusterfuck-shitstorm that is the current situation in the UK, tell me one politician that really stands out as honourable and trustworthy, in any of the major parties.
Exactly.
I rest my case.
@Jason is a far more proactive member, and I deeply respect both his interest and commitment, and there isn't much he's not spot-on about, on any matter he may care to expand on.
He's on a different political plane to me, in that he's USA-side... but frankly, matters in America are no better....
I’ve thought about it some. I think democracy is not doing too well in many countries because of vested interests and the development of a political class. The whole populism issue is another area of concern.
But generally I try to give it as little attention as possible, and I vote green to try and do my bit for the planet. I think it does interfere with Buddhist practice because it encourages tribalism and attachment and various other bad habits.
The unreal can only harm the unreal or the shit is just as much of an illusion as the stone Buddha, that doesn't mean you shouldn't help who you can or confuse equanimity with indifference. Remember true compassion is to liberate someone, anything else is tainted by the sludge of attachment, but sometimes sludge does the job.
I appreciate your point of view, @federica. I would say Caroline Lucas is honourable and trustworthy, but unfortunately the Greens are not a major party... yet. But if we vote for them, they could be.
My friend is a Green city councillor and Extinction Rebellion activist, and he believes the climate situation will soon go beyond party politics. He thinks we’re headed for a kind of martial law not dissimilar to WWII: a single-party government, food rations, conscripted industries. It’s a bleak outlook, and when I was staying with him recently I found it quite upsetting. But he could be right, and it could even be the kind of crisis we need to heal our society’s divisions: everyone coming together under a common purpose.
As for the role of Buddhism in this, I don’t personally see a conflict between being politically engaged and having a Buddhist practice. I guess it depends on how you are engaged. Tribalism, violent protests, putting your own needs above others’: there are plenty of examples of decidedly un-Buddhist politics. The Buddhist versions of these would be compassionate listening, peaceful protests, and voting with a social conscience. If politics is undertaken like that, I think it can be ethical and wise.
Sadly, in my experience, the minute a Minor Party becomes a Major party, they get as warped and corrupted as any previous Major party. The Power goes to their heads. I've been following the Green Party's manifesto, and I hate to say it but they really do have an uphill struggle to convince the general population of their policies, and demonstrate how sound they are. They have an excellent ideology. But it's just not as persuasive or practical in practice as it is in theory.
Even your friend seems to think it's unattainable, by very virtue of his vision of the future...
Wow, many more of you are in the UK than I thought! I'm in the US. @Jason I'm off to read your thread, I searched for similar threads before I created this one, I must have missed it! Thanks for the link. 💖
I'm somewhere center left in US terms. Though I believe quite firmly that we need differing political temperaments to govern society effectively, we each can see certain important aspects of the world that others aren't so attuned to.
The problem with getting enmeshed in politics is that it is so adversarial. It is anathema to the nuance and complex understanding needed to be effective. If you're on one side or the other you can't give any ground to your opponent so the sides end up moving more and more extreme. It used to be that if you believed one political idea out of 10 you might believe differently on another, but today if you believe one thing it is pretty likely that someone who doesn't know anything else about you could list off 8 or 9 other beliefs you have.
I hold a bunch of different views from both sides of the aisle. I think it's due to my marrying a person who didn't share my political views or religion. Love and respect bridged the gap in understanding at first before we understood each other's POV.
I think open conversation with others who are not in our political bubble leads to more understanding, and thus compassion. That's why I'm for unfettered free speech, period.
@federica, yes that’s a fair point. It comes down to a personal decision in the end. Is it true that in Australia voting is compulsory? They must get a lot of spoilt ballots...
Just a quick 2 minute read.
Yes it is....I was recently slugged $75 for failing to vote in a local election (the excuse that my four year old son had stuffed the postal vote down the back of the couch and I never saw it - true story! - didn’t wash with the electoral commission).
I see pros and cons to compulsory voting.
A lot of people simply turn up, get their name crossed off, then leave again. Or, like my mate, draw an extra box on the ballot paper and write “The Mad Moo Cow Party” and stick that in the ballot box.
My box would probably be labelled "I don't give a flying fu....ngus who wins."
Aaaah the good ol "Informal Vote"
I'm passionate about NOT f@@cking up your vote - EVER. There may not be anyone you consider voting for, but if you screw your vote up, you lessen the number of people who control who gets voted in. So if only say 60-80% of people filled out their voting crds correctly and three quarters of them were conservative types who disliked Islam, head coverings, all non Christians etc. you then get THEIR votes only counting.
In Australia, all informal votes get counted then discarded. It's a ridiculous thing to do. You literally throw away your say in who gets voted in. It's how we got a few of our past leaders. If you informal vote, don't complain when someone you dislike gets in, it IS partly your fault because your vote could have made a difference. There is also an onus on voters to educate themselves on what parties represent and what policies they stand for. Also PREFERENCES it is imperative that you know how the party you vote for preference their votes. This can be all the difference - especially with how minority parties preference their votes. You need to know - and change if you desire - how the preferences go.
Yes I think alike to @Kundo. I recall we my girlfriend and I had guests friends of ours and somehow talked about the election of 2016. They said "well I didn't vote because I knew Trump wouldn't win Michigan anyways". We have an electoral college point system with points for each state. I informed them "uh but Trump DID win Michigan". They didn't know that. Normally Michigan always as a whole votes democrat unless it's a landslide election as Reagan was last to win Michigan and 1980 and 1984 that is until 2016.
I vote monster raving loony (whoever I vote for) ...
I reckon it is more worthwhile to register a thought through, principled vote than a protest vote or a spoiled ballot. It’s not so hard to just put an X against a party who has sensible policies with respect to the environment, and your vote would be doing some good.
I confess I had not thought of it that way, and it makes sense.
I studied politics at high school and had aspirations before reality kicked in and I realised how shitty our system is. But I try to educate as many people as I can (without being a douche about it)so we can all try to keep the bastards honest.
Vote ... something or other ...
Yeah, pretty much if you don't vote, you vote for whoever you would have voted against.
Really.
It depends on how non-votes are treated, and so it varies with different places around the world. Here in the Netherlands the system is proportional representation, the total number of valid votes is counted and then the divider is calculated, and that’s the number of votes you need for a seat in the parliament. So each non-vote is effectively proportionally divided across all the available parties, making no difference to the end result. It’s like a vote for the status quo.
I find it awkward to hear such things as “not voting is like a vote for the largest party” because it just isn’t the case.
Yep definitely unique to a lot of other places
From here.
Here in Canada it is the case pretty much but backwards. We have 3 viable left of center parties to chose from but only one real right wing contender. So even if the conservative base is a big minority, unless the left can work together, the right has a better chance. So here, we will have many on the left voting against Trudeau or not at all for the lack of someone they "like" while ultimately helping Scheer because only the Liberals have enough support to topple the PCs.
When I was young, I was active in the Civil Rights Movement, the Peace Movement (Vietnam War years) and supporting politiicans (those few) that I approved of (none of them ever won).
My mom, who had practiced yoga/meditations since 1930, said that "Whatever you do, there WILL be a result. That is the Law of the universe." and she encouraged working for just causes.
Now I am old, and while I still care, I understand that the only thing which frees us from suffering is enlightenment, and that until one is enlightened, they cannot help others in that endeavour. And also that most people are not interested in becoming enlightened.
I pretty-much confine my "activism" to knowing my voting options and always voting.
Politically, I am prefer far Left ... if it helps people, I'm for it. If it hurts people, I'm against it.
I am just SO glad I moved to Canada in the mid-70's and no longer live in the States. That would indeed be a difficult test of my equanimity.
The world wags on.
Great mum
Good post. That is a law of the universe. I am just becoming aware of something that seems independent of such 'karma' ... but that is for another thread ...
Work for just causes
... obvious really ...
You can also vote for local things like where I am you can vote for the school board members. It's harder to get large amounts of info just each candidates blurb about how they envision things.
Active pacifist progressive
Seconded....
I don't think it is controversial for Buddhists to think about politics at all. Taking the cynism out of politics, it is a tool to get differing/contesting views out for public airing and hopefully landing with the best debated solution possible. Mature democratic politics then is for contesting platforms to try to convince as many voters as possible that theirs is the way forward minus the violence/coercion/electoral fraud.
Buddhism colour our view when it comes to looking at issues (piercing through bad arguments - false assumptions, slippery slopes etc), articulating our position (with composure and compassion). Buddhists would thrive better in certain environments, for example, those where people actually respect freedom of thought and expression, because we are encouraged to ask questions and never to abide by any dogma blindly. Buddhists can speak up against corruption, politics of lies, or ideologies that promote racial, religious or other forms of discrimination, segregation, extremism, or isolation.
Case on point - Malaysia is nowhere a prime example of a great democracy. But leading up to the first change of government in 2018 after 60 years of single coalition rule mired in systemic corruption, the local Buddhist organisations worked closely with other minority religious organisations in the country to press for calm and civility when the then ruling coalition was feeling the heat over various financial scandals that they increasingly played up religious and racial nationalism to help them win votes from a certain racial segment. This with various other forms of social activism contributed to electoral change. So here's a pretty good testimony to an often heard refrain - your single vote counts. But more so is your single voice in the right forum that can influence many others. And Buddhist voice would seem like a good calming voice to bring balance to any debate.
Some may be interested in the seven fundamental tenets of this politically active group
Here is a documentary about their efforts
Intersting tidbit, @lobster
If the "Christians" followed their own tenets, they would be, well, Christian. But, alas, a large swath of them do not, have not and will not. It is against their religion.
The true evil in Amerka is the "Gawd fearin, Bible Thumpin Evigelicals" - hate filled, who purport to be the real Amercans and Amerka is Gawd's chosen land. All other "Get Out".
No, not all fundamentalists are like that, but their leadership is pushing that agenda.
The above may or may not be true. But it conforms to perceptions.
The real danger is a closed mind. (Regardless of purported faith)
The real danger is seeing other as "They".
The real danger is in not accepting that having a different belief or philosophy or way of life is just that and nothing more and nothing less.
The real danger is denying one's own humanity by denying the humanity of others.
Peace to all
@Quidditch, Our core beliefs shape our political view. A belief that holds that all people, all life is sacred, will yield a different political philosophy from a belief in exceptionalism "My God is True - Your god is false" "We are the chosen ones to bring the light unto the darkness. An d whomever is not of us is lesser.", which justifies whatever the "We".
Just a thought
Somewhat related to this conversation is something I wrote recently for different reasons, which details the connection between religion and politics in my own life for anyone interested: religion and politics: my journey to the left.
Bhikkhu Bodhi, well-known Buddhist monk, scholar, and translator of Buddhist texts, offering an ethical dimension to the socioeconomic crisis of climate change: "We have to turn away from social systems driven by greed, by the quest for limitless profits, by competition, exploitation, and violence against other people and the natural world ... that allow a few to flourish while millions, even billions, live on the edge of survival. Instead, we need to envision new collective systems of global integration that give priority to cooperation and collaboration, to living in harmony with each other and with nature, systems that will enable all people to flourish economically, socially, and spiritually."
He references the Fire Sermon and the parable of the burning house, comparing them to our current circumstances and how the greed and ignorance encouraged by the present system is causing us to harm to ourselves and others. And he ends by exhorting us to walk the path that will take us towards the future we are presently hoping for, a better, shared future that promotes the good of all.
It brought to mind a recent article in Jacobin, Socialism or Extinction.
Overheard:
"Being asked to choose between 2 major political parties is like being told you're about to be waterboarded, but you can have still or sparkling..."
The Global situation is beyond dire... I am not a political animal, but even I can see a disaster of catastrophic proportions developing. And it's not even as far away as 'on the horizon'... it's much, much closer than that.
The Amazon forest is slowly being decimated by fires, many of them started deliberately...
Millions of bees world-wide are being destroyed by once-banned pesticides now re-given the all-clear...
Whales are being washed up dead, and there's no more space to dispose of them safely...
On that subject, the Japanese are whaling, again...
Global warming is melting the Polar Ice-caps at terrifying speed...
Plastic is overwhelming and engulfing the planet faster than we can implement solutions to it...
Corruption, fuelled by Greed, is dominant in Politics, everywhere...
Brexit is a total wasteland of utter chaos and confusion, governed by bickering and uncompromising windbags...
Those that haven’t already accepted that we’re in dire straights need to do so. I think it’s a case of burying heads in sand for some people; when they do think about it, they feel so overwhelmed by the enormity of it and/or think that others will solve the problem.
We can’t afford to wait until tomorrow.
The solution, if indeed there is one, is a hard pill to swallow. Here in the western world we’ve become accustomed to things that have made ours lives easier.
We’ve already done the damage. We don’t t have an option to leave it at that.
If I’m totally honest, even though I’m passionate about the subject, I rather like the easy option of carrying on as we are.
But we ALL need to accept that the easy option is NOT an option.
It's hard work. And we all have to put our shoulder to the boulder. No half measures. It's all in, or nothing.
And if you don't commit to doing something - anything - to help redress the balance, then, to use the old cliche - if you're not part of the solution... then you're part of the problem.
For me, compassion, in political terms, would mean the end of Capitalism, individualism and consumerism. That competitive rat race, the destruction and barbarism of the world for our luxury and comfort. I mean capitalism rests on the whole idea that one can be happy in searching for the external. And we've come to a point, I mean arguably we've always been at this point but its more intense, where we can see the problems that this system has created. Radical inequality, the climate emergency.
Capitalism doesn't fit in with the world, and we can see that
I am left and I am green, and it all works together rather well.
Here is informative documentary for the politically naive ... (me for example)
According to the Associated Press, a company run by former officials at Cambridge Analytica, Data Propria, has been working for President Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election effort.
A God would come in handy right now, to get America out of this bovine Scatological swamp...
I came across this article about how our personality dispositions have a large part in dictating our political preferences, and the utility of difference.
I think in a way this is down to the internet, which makes it so easy for like-minded people to find eachother. In Europe perhaps more than in America these have resulted in political parties, there are quite a few new ones such as the Brexit party in the UK, AfD in Germany and the PVV in the Netherlands. All of these have had quite a lot of votes in their countries during elections in recent years.
An idea which in the past might have slumbered for many years now sees an activist put together a website and gather adherents in weeks. Many fringe interests may have been stimulated in this way.
I agree, and I think parliamentary style systems are much better equipped to handle this sort of thing than the winner take all system in the US. Changing that here would require a constitutional amendment which could never happen now. I think ranked choice voting could help and we could also make a change the way the members of the house of representatives are selected that would help without a major overhaul.
There's also an issue in the US, which is large and culturally diverse, where people are self segregating into differing regions to be around people more like themselves.
As a user of a working open source platform, I would suggest it might be required in politics ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_governance
Informal politics is something we are all engaged in every day and at every level.
Formal politics - of which this string appears to be addressing, take on may forms. Which is best is subjective. If one favors a more open, individual system, the the various Democracies are preferred. as most modern democracies are representational, the dominant two forms are the American style, which has devolved into a two party system and the predominantly European based system of Parliamentary Democracy. without going into a side by side, suffice that the Parliamentary system is in fact closer to direct representation but leads to a more fluid political environment. which is the better depends upon time, circumstance of the moment and outlook of the person or persons involved.
Democracies, regardless of "Type", are fragile things which must constantly be groomed, closely watched, defended ans supported but not thrust upon others. the more freedoms we have, the more responsibility we take on. the Soviets grabbed it at birth and threw it out in the snow. Facist Germany gradually pushed it out of the nest. Education, Awareness and Vigalence are our primary weapons for the support and defense of any democracy.