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Spiritual maturity

KeromeKerome Love, love is mysteryThe Continent Veteran

I came across a quote the other day, that for a spiritually mature person all that needs to happen is he needs to hear the truth and he will have an awakening experience. It made me consider, at what point are you spiritually mature?

For me, when I read things or when I listen to a lecture by a teacher, there is a kind of resonance process going on. I sort of feel whether something speaks to me, when there is a truth I feel to the words. And that process can trigger things inside me, it can set off various experiences. It’s a deep recognition. I’m not sure if that is what the quote was talking about, but it’s the closest I have come.

So what does ‘spiritual maturity’ mean to you?

ShoshinadamcrossleyDharma_Vibes

Comments

  • LionduckLionduck Veteran

    A great deal. One part, however, is living with the understanding of interconnectedness and cultivating compassion.

    Shoshinlobsteradamcrossleyコチシカ
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Kerome said:

    So what does ‘spiritual maturity’ mean to you?

    Knowing through experiential understanding/knowledge that This too shall pass

    at what point are you spiritually mature?

    I guess one could say spiritual maturity starts to happen when the decluttering of the accumulated junk which tends to clog up the mind's flow happens...

    Out with the old shoddy line of thought & In with the new improved highly efficient streamline thinking

    Well something along those lines...

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited July 28

    @Lionduck said:
    A great deal. One part, however, is living with the understanding of interconnectedness and cultivating compassion.

    I'll buy that.

    Innocence! In a sense we live with constant reminder of the impoverishing accumulation of ripening rot ...

    In other words ...

    Picture this - a sky full of thunder
    Picture this - my telephone number
    One and One is what I'm telling you

    get a pocket computer
    try to do what ya used to do

    So what does ‘spiritual maturity’ mean to you?

    Nothing much.

  • taiyakitaiyaki Michigan Veteran

    Living, incarnating dharma in your bodily activities: speech, tonality, intention, examining your actions, caring and striving to be a better person. It takes maturity to hear the teachings, it takes even more maturity to apply them, it takes even more maturity to fail, and it takes even more maturity to persevere.

    What spiritual maturity is not is mere intellectual understanding.

    lobsterKeromeperson
  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    Sometimes, spiritual maturity simply refers to a willingness in being unabashedly present for this one, fleeting nano second of an answer.

    lobsterChoephal
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @taiyaki said:
    It takes maturity to hear the teachings, it takes even more maturity to apply them, it takes even more maturity to fail, and it takes even more maturity to persevere.

    That’s definitely part of it, isn’t it? But I think also it is a return to the beginners mind, that you can listen with a certain openness without immediately formulating lots of logical arguments. That you have reached a calmness of the mind, where you can formulate a logical argument but it isn’t necessarily the first thing you do.

  • taiyakitaiyaki Michigan Veteran

    @Kerome said:

    @taiyaki said:
    It takes maturity to hear the teachings, it takes even more maturity to apply them, it takes even more maturity to fail, and it takes even more maturity to persevere.

    That’s definitely part of it, isn’t it? But I think also it is a return to the beginners mind, that you can listen with a certain openness without immediately formulating lots of logical arguments. That you have reached a calmness of the mind, where you can formulate a logical argument but it isn’t necessarily the first thing you do.

    Logic has its place. I think with maturity one learns the that place. In a sense you know what to do because you know what is right. For me choices and logical explanations are excuses. We know what needs to be done with maturity. The crux point is responsibility wedded to a good heart. But that is just my vision and
    Opinion of what spiritual maturity means. So please take it with a grain of salt.

    lobsteradamcrossley
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited July 29

    @taiyaki said:
    In a sense you know what to do because you know what is right. For me choices and logical explanations are excuses. We know what needs to be done with maturity. The crux point is responsibility wedded to a good heart.

    Knowing what is right is a stage that you go beyond, I think. At a certain point you become gentle, mild, and you see that other people choose their own paths. There is very little you can really do about that, and it is only possible to teach others when they are ready to listen.

    taiyakiadamcrossleyperson
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    We know what needs to be done with maturity.

    Indeed. In a sense we make the right choice (or wrong if overwhelming dedicated to ignorance) in the manner of our current understanding.

    For example wrathful expression is NOT the same as lashing out. It is controlled and skilful.

    We can in a similar way not declare 'my little pony' passivity as skilful if it is out of control fear and anxiety of our innate right to our being.

    taiyaki
  • taiyakitaiyaki Michigan Veteran

    @lobster said:

    We know what needs to be done with maturity.

    Indeed. In a sense we make the right choice (or wrong if overwhelming dedicated to ignorance) in the manner of our current understanding.

    For example wrathful expression is NOT the same as lashing out. It is controlled and skilful.

    We can in a similar way not declare 'my little pony' passivity as skilful if it is out of control fear and anxiety of our innate right to our being.

    I agree. It really helps me also to accept that people are also trying their best given the information and knowledge that they have and occupy. So to me understanding where people are at really helps me have empathy and understanding, which makes me less judgmental.

    All in all we can become responsible for other people and situations and most importantly ourselves.

    My Lama says that we can always say what needs to be said with kindness. I find that really difficult because I have in generally an angry mind. But it definitely is something to practice and aspire to.

    Thanks for responding.

    lobsterKeromeperson
  • taiyakitaiyaki Michigan Veteran

    @Kerome said:

    @taiyaki said:
    In a sense you know what to do because you know what is right. For me choices and logical explanations are excuses. We know what needs to be done with maturity. The crux point is responsibility wedded to a good heart.

    Knowing what is right is a stage that you go beyond, I think. At a certain point you become gentle, mild, and you see that other people choose their own paths. There is very little you can really do about that, and it is only possible to teach others when they are ready to listen.

    Yes, very valid points. I don't really have that stability in being gentle mannered. But I am working on establishing such boundaries as the one's you describe. I have a tendency to share when there is no receptivity. So it is definitely something that is very immature in my life.

    Thanks for the nuance.

    Kerome
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @FoibleFull said:
    Buddha rejected samadhi and other meditative "highs" as being about enlightenment since these states do not last for long. He felt that when Truth is perceived, it is not lost, and if it is lost then it was not Truth in the first place.

    Exactly.
    The foundation of the imperceptible is the revealing of displacement. It does not reside but is always present.

    How can you lose. ...

  • Dharma_VibesDharma_Vibes California, USA New
    edited July 31

    Even after awakening, people can still act as if they have yet to mature spiritually. To me spiritual maturity has nothing to do with awakening, but willingness.

    A Zen Master (whose name I cannot remember) from the Order of Buddhist Contemplatives said it best when he said, "To grow up spiritually means that you are willing to do what you don't want to do and go where you don't want to go. You must be willing to face the unknown, head-on."

    To me, I personally feel that this makes the most sense. How can anybody claim to be a spiritual adult when they aren't willing to look their own demons in the face and work on their resistance? Just because you have awakened to our true nature, doesn't mean you are done with your demons, unless maybe said individual realized nirvana, but that is beside the point.
    ...also, I'm not claiming to be a spiritual adult. I'm not there yet as I have a lot of resistance I am still working on but I am making progress one step at a time.

    ShoshinlobsterJeffreyFosdick
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    "To grow up spiritually means that you are willing to do what you don't want to do and go where you don't want to go. You must be willing to face the unknown, head-on."

    You means I have to join TikTok? Surely not. Aren't my picnics in the hell realms sufficient?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok

    Dharma_VibesWalkerKeromeadamcrossley
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    Its interesting that there are so many different takes on this...

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    It is interesting @Kerome ... and I would suggest encouraging. It means we are not back patting a communal certainty but relating to our own experience.

    We can then decide what genuinely resounds to what we know and understand and what is [insert kind response for everyone]. So we might say maturity is conveying an attitude rather than a conventional strut.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the liminal space Veteran
    edited August 2

    @Kerome said:

    @taiyaki said:
    In a sense you know what to do because you know what is right. For me choices and logical explanations are excuses. We know what needs to be done with maturity. The crux point is responsibility wedded to a good heart.

    Knowing what is right is a stage that you go beyond, I think. At a certain point you become gentle, mild, and you see that other people choose their own paths. There is very little you can really do about that, and it is only possible to teach others when they are ready to listen.

    There's a saying used in metta practice to add in equanimity that I think fits. "I care about you, but I can't make your decisions for you".

    I think there is a certain level of spiritual maturity in that sentiment as well.

    Keromefedericalobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    I knew I gets it wrong agin ... :3

    No teaching is better than learning ... Ah ha! (must remember) ...

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @lobster said:
    We can then decide what genuinely resounds to what we know and understand and what is [insert kind response for everyone]. So we might say maturity is conveying an attitude rather than a conventional strut.

    Well said. I think it also relates to our experience with children, those of us who have been parents will have a certain attitude towards maturity. But kids have their own wisdom.

    lobster
  • コチシカコチシカ Berlin, Germany Veteran

    My spiritual maturity began to show some -of what I presume to be- signs of ripening or development when I realised how I was "Blazin' up [my] your herb to escape the maze, but the problem stays."

    I really find admirable a person who lives by the five precepts and transmits goodness / wholesomeness rather than adding more rubbish to himself / herself / the world.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @Dharma_Vibes said:
    ...also, I'm not claiming to be a spiritual adult. I'm not there yet as I have a lot of resistance I am still working on but I am making progress one step at a time.

    Seems like a plan.

    Here are some dance steps wot I learned:

    • Beat. Box. Stay loose ...
    • Become the rhythm
    • Timing swings
    • Never skip a heart beat

    Strangely enough we are the resistance.

  • DimmesdaleDimmesdale Illinois Explorer

    So what does ‘spiritual maturity’ mean to you?

    Honestly. I can't say. This is because I am a very unspiritual person in my opinion.

    It's kind of like asking a ghost "what is real?" when the ghost has no reality....

    I still feel like a ghost in many ways. If spirituality is being real, than I am far removed from that reality. In many ways I am still situated, mostly, in "maya" or illusion....

    I have had experiences, some more real than others. Or at least they correlate with things I have read that others have also discovered worked in their life. They attest that it is spiritual, what they went through, and so I accept their testimony and apply it to what has occurred in my life....

    But I can't really say I have made appreciable spiritual progress, as far as I have any real benchmark to measure it. :shrug:

    how
  • Whatever it is, just settle in, prepare fore unexpected, take a deep breath or two or three, and proceed on your journey.

    Peace to all

    lobster
  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    Usually I think that spiritual maturity refers to the level of priority one gives to a spiritual practice over whatever attachment is the most difficult to address at any moment.

  • AligggAliggg CA USA New

    http://eiskjelonen.simplesite.com/ To all those who believe Buddhist monks die laughing, and do not decompose after death,. There has been researches done on this, proving that the dying monks and gurus take a very special diet mainly consisting of salts, that absorbs the water in the body, look at the skin tone of the gurus, it’s only lack of water, they weigh about 50 kg prior to death, and all of their bodily functions stop because of lack of water, it can be done and after death the body is again is covered with wax, that closes all the skin pores, so no miracles, the almost waterless dry body, with a thin layer of wax will not rot, it only shrinks, so this is the story behind the “stand up death” and “body does not decompose” advertisement in Buddhism,.it has been researched and closed off,.

  • ChoephalChoephal UK Explorer

    Which would not explain the fact that within hours, and I mean hours, the body of the last Karmapa shrank by about 40%. A large man in life he became the size of a 10 year old child within hours. No procedures brought this about. The body was still warm and was still being watched over by his monks. I know this first hand because I saw it.
    I don’t think this is a big deal. It certainly tells us nothing of any importance to most Buddhist students, but there are many things in heaven and earth beyond rational explanation.

  • ChoephalChoephal UK Explorer

    I feel for the sake of honesty I should add that something similar happened to one of my uncles. He was an ex army sergeant and a lovely chap, but no saint by any stretch of the imagination. Just before he died he was in a coma and his body contracted to the size of a child. I have no explanation..and of course it could be two different causes..
    Anyway back to topic..🙂

  • Buddhist monks die laughing

    What a way to go. B)

    Trolls are usually pickled in their own karmic juices pretty soon around here.
    Laugh on you.

    Just so you know o:)

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