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Three minutes is pretty good. I'm not that dedicated yet. I commit to jumping in as soon as I turn the water on but I turn it to hot and it only takes about a minute or a little longer before it starts to warm up. It's certainly not as easy in winter as it was in summer. Maybe exercise prior to shower? Get the blood circulating? That's my "cheat" at times.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@person said:
I've been trying to push past the 3 minute mark. About that time is when my muscles start to get sluggish and the sensation can be painful rather than just shocking or uncomfortable.
Anyone have any insight or suggestions about these effects?
Dance.
Or, begin with a barely lukewarm shower, and gradually turn it to fully cold.
I can easily go 8 - 10 minutes at the moment, fully cold. I guess it's a gradual acclimatisation...
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@FleaMarket said:
Three minutes is pretty good. I'm not that dedicated yet. I commit to jumping in as soon as I turn the water on but I turn it to hot and it only takes about a minute or a little longer before it starts to warm up. It's certainly not as easy in winter as it was in summer. Maybe exercise prior to shower? Get the blood circulating? That's my "cheat" at times.
If you breathe deep and fast as you get under the cold water stream, it helps a lot.
I spent several days in a cottage in the mountains with friends. There was quite some snow and we had a jacuzzi and a sauna. Walking to the jacuzzi in the snow, my feet hurt like hell. I could not imagine lying in the snow or jumping into the cold pool. But after the sauna, walking in the snow was very easy and I lay in the snow with little difficulty. Now I understand the Northern Europeans (Fins, Swedes, etc) that combine saunas and snow, that way it's WAY easier.
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
edited April 2023
Just had my first cold shower in ages, it was really good! Just 3-4 minutes, but it was nice.
With the warmer weather, I'm up for more of a challenge, so am back to taking occasional cold baths. I finally figured out a way to simply and cheaply have a lot of ice handy: doh, just put a few plastic bottles of water in the freezer.
0
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I start with a warm-cool shower first. I've found that when my mind is in an agreeable state towards a cool shower when I turn the water to cold I want to get out sooner. But when my mind is resistant to the idea when I turn the water cold I'm more tolerant of it and want to stay in longer. Its weird, I'm not sure why that is.
On another note, I've read that "cold" is somewhere between 60F(15C) and 50F(10C), my water is about 48F(9C), its hard to get it just a touch warmer without it jumping up in temp more than 60, but there is a big difference in staying in 60 vs 48. 60 feels like I could stay in indefinitely, 48 really turns my body numb and becomes painful at around 4 minutes now.
I live in a cold climate and started cold showers this winter, I'm curious to see what the water is like this summer.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@person said: ..."cold" is somewhere between 60F(15C) and 50F(10C), my water is about 48F(9C) ...
My daughter and I went swimming on holiday, in Lago Maggiore. In the spring, the lake is principally fed by the melted snows off the Alps. The water temperature was around 7°C. Stayed in for 20 minutes.
There was a local club of Scuba divers, all wrapped up in cold-water insulated swimming gear, all of whom thought we were either brave or insane. We explained we were British. That seemed to cover both bases!
Tis the season of the cold tap-water for us in the Northern hemisphere.
How are we doing Wim Hoffer's?
I find myself doing cold-showers regularly, but in a half-assed manner, taking brief showers and not showering every day as it's - cold!
But for me that's the whole point of the showers - to train in discipline and facing hardship - so I won't quit but will aim to redouble my efforts.
I am also trying to get a friend to accompany me into a lake-swim next week. I've only done this once before and it was GREAT!
2
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
Sometimes its a dread facing the cold, and sometimes it comes with some, maybe not quite eagerness, but some sort of neutrality. I almost always feel satisfied, or grateful that I did the cold shower though.
The temp has been getting noticeably colder and going by last winter it'll drop several more degrees still.
I've begun getting into a cool shower for maybe a minute before turning it all the way down. Then washing up in the cold, the time seems to go faster that way and it distracts from the cold. By the time I'm done with that my body has adjusted and I stay in a minute or so longer, it usually ends up being about 3 minutes total. When the water gets its coldest at 3 minutes my hands start to slow down and it can get painful on the skin. At that point though its pretty pleasurable to get under a blanket and sit, paying attention to the bodily sensations as I warm back up.
This summer I felt more motivated and energetic than usual. Its hard to draw a firm connection between the two, but its possible.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
After my hip operation, I managed a shower once I got home. The pain in my hip became excruciating, and I kind of regretted the folly, but it felt, oh! SO good to grab a cold one...! 3 minutes 38 seconds.
Then, LAST Saturday, I tore a ligament, going up the stairs. Missed my footing, You'd think I'd have bloody learnt by now, right, where to put my feet?! So am now recovering from a self-inflicted delay in healing. But am doing better than I thought I would...
Am going to venture another shower mid-week. Watch this space!
2
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
The cold weather hit this week and the water temp is hitting around 50F (10C) now. 3 minutes is fairly normal, at that point it starts to get a bit painful but I decided to push past today. After a bit I just became numb and it wasn't that bad but then at just under 5 minutes I became a bit dizzy and it felt a little dangerous (didn't want to pass out in under frozen water). I feel fine now, it was just after sticking my head under again, I'm guessing too much blood retreating from the head. Anyway, not sure there's really much more benefit from the added time, though it always feels nice as the warmth returns, so not sure if I'll try going longer again.
IMO, no need to push it too far @person. We want to be in uncomfortable/growth zone, not panic/dangerous zone. The uncomfortable/growth zone expands with time. As you note, there is probably not much benefit from going too long in very cold temps.
My friends in Norway have discovered cold plunges. They have opportunities I don't have: cold baths in public pools and the sea/lakes. They report that VERY short plunges in temperatures around 0C are lots of fun and have many benefits. The way they do it in Norway is to first go into the sauna, then take a cold plunge, then rinse and repeat. From my one experience with this method, it makes a lot of sense, since the subjective experience of cold is then much less.
2
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
edited July 2
I’ve been experimenting with cold-warm-cold showers as well. Our boiler takes a little while to warm up, so it’s kind of involuntary, but I like to just turn the shower all the way to cold and really cool down all the way at the end. In the summer it’s very pleasant to take the beam of the cold shower full on the chest…
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
I have to say, there was an article in the paper here about Wim Hof’s personal life, and that was pretty shocking. It seems he was violent towards his second wife and son, there was a court case which he lost, he was given a restraining order, she and the son both suffer from PTSD now, and his first wife committed suicide. Turns out Wim Hof is not a nice guy.
But it is true that to do these things, swimming under the ice and walking a half marathon on bare feet in the polar circle and going up high mountains in freezing cold dressed only in shorts, requires a pretty extreme personality. He is a bit crazy.
Yeah, I watched a YT video to the same effect yesterday. Link.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Isn't any form of outspoken extreme personality a bit crazy? Maybe he has a condition nobody has yet diagnosed or revealed... sometimes what we read, is not all we can know, and all we sew might be tempered to attract bigger audiences. Trend-setters, and those who tread unchartered territories are always subject to scrutiny. And humanity loves nothing better to build someone a pedestal, only to then take delight in knocking them off it...
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
It seems he had a pretty long history of being abusive to women and children.
0
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
Does how we feel about Wim Hof as a human being impact how we feel about the benefit of cold immersion?
2
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@person said:
Does how we feel about Wim Hof as a human being impact how we feel about the benefit of cold immersion?
He will be in a freezer soon enough. So to speak.
The important thing is to knock oneself (if unfortunate enough to have any worth mentioning) off any constructed pedestals...
I dunz this!
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
This is the article, which they made available in English as well…
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Interesting, @marcitko … it seems at least some of his exes support Wim and tell another side to the story.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Jeroen said:
Interesting, @marcitko … it seems at least some of his exes support Wim and tell another side to the story.
Aren't there more facets to a diamond we are admiring, than the one which has currently caught our eye?
While I am all for the exposure and public being informed of a person 's nefarious or shady character, it's always worth remembering that sensationalism sells, and that sometimes, reporters don't "let the truth get in the way of a good story"....
Aren't there more facets to a diamond we are admiring, than the one which has currently caught our eye?
While I am all for the exposure and public being informed of a person 's nefarious or shady character, it's always worth remembering that sensationalism sells, and that sometimes, reporters don't "let the truth get in the way of a good story"....
Yeah, it seems that currently there is a tendency (in the media, in the public, in the social-media...) to first build people up and then tear them down. Both the initial building up and consequent tearing down is probably exaggerated and unrealistic.
With people being teared down (a.k.a. "cancelled") my personal solution has been to adopt the mindset that as long as 95% of things that the person is saying sound reasonable and true and helpful to me or society AND there have not been any gross misdemeanours, then I continue to listen to that person and consider him/her my teacher of sorts. If I was looking for 100% I would cancel everyone I know, including myself.
Now I'm thinking that I should be a bit more skeptical also in the building up phase.
Even Buddhist teachers fall into these considerations. With Zen Masters, it's come to the point where I'm shocked and elated whenever I find one who does NOT have proved or insinuated (usually power/sex/money) allegations.
Seems like - DOH! - we are all human after all, fallible and imperfect.
I think in large part it comes down to honesty and transparency and acknowledging and fulfilling the expectations that the person has forwarded themselves. For instance, Wim could have done well to admit his past heavy drinking and emotional dark place, if that was the case. People would have responded positively to that. At least I would. ZM's could talk about the difficulties of being celibate and either disrobe or work to change the rules so that people know what the deal is and that they are not unnecessarily harmed.
3
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I've fallen off the cold shower bandwagon recently, haven't done one in a few months even though the water doesn't get near cold enough this time of year (about 20C).
I think I've lost some of the will to do it, and I'm enjoying the warmth and ease of a hotter shower.
Though if I had any sense I'd use the opportunity of the revelations against Hof to use that as my reason and elevate myself in the eyes of others, and perhaps even convince myself, as being noble in refusing to follow the recommendations of the wicked. What a good boy am I. 😏
Comments
Three minutes is pretty good. I'm not that dedicated yet. I commit to jumping in as soon as I turn the water on but I turn it to hot and it only takes about a minute or a little longer before it starts to warm up. It's certainly not as easy in winter as it was in summer. Maybe exercise prior to shower? Get the blood circulating? That's my "cheat" at times.
Dance.
Or, begin with a barely lukewarm shower, and gradually turn it to fully cold.
I can easily go 8 - 10 minutes at the moment, fully cold. I guess it's a gradual acclimatisation...
If you breathe deep and fast as you get under the cold water stream, it helps a lot.
I spent several days in a cottage in the mountains with friends. There was quite some snow and we had a jacuzzi and a sauna. Walking to the jacuzzi in the snow, my feet hurt like hell. I could not imagine lying in the snow or jumping into the cold pool. But after the sauna, walking in the snow was very easy and I lay in the snow with little difficulty. Now I understand the Northern Europeans (Fins, Swedes, etc) that combine saunas and snow, that way it's WAY easier.
Just had my first cold shower in ages, it was really good! Just 3-4 minutes, but it was nice.
I've cold-showered for most of the winter.
With the warmer weather, I'm up for more of a challenge, so am back to taking occasional cold baths. I finally figured out a way to simply and cheaply have a lot of ice handy: doh, just put a few plastic bottles of water in the freezer.
I start with a warm-cool shower first. I've found that when my mind is in an agreeable state towards a cool shower when I turn the water to cold I want to get out sooner. But when my mind is resistant to the idea when I turn the water cold I'm more tolerant of it and want to stay in longer. Its weird, I'm not sure why that is.
On another note, I've read that "cold" is somewhere between 60F(15C) and 50F(10C), my water is about 48F(9C), its hard to get it just a touch warmer without it jumping up in temp more than 60, but there is a big difference in staying in 60 vs 48. 60 feels like I could stay in indefinitely, 48 really turns my body numb and becomes painful at around 4 minutes now.
I live in a cold climate and started cold showers this winter, I'm curious to see what the water is like this summer.
My daughter and I went swimming on holiday, in Lago Maggiore. In the spring, the lake is principally fed by the melted snows off the Alps. The water temperature was around 7°C. Stayed in for 20 minutes.
There was a local club of Scuba divers, all wrapped up in cold-water insulated swimming gear, all of whom thought we were either brave or insane. We explained we were British. That seemed to cover both bases!
Tis the season of the cold tap-water for us in the Northern hemisphere.
How are we doing Wim Hoffer's?
I find myself doing cold-showers regularly, but in a half-assed manner, taking brief showers and not showering every day as it's - cold!
But for me that's the whole point of the showers - to train in discipline and facing hardship - so I won't quit but will aim to redouble my efforts.
I am also trying to get a friend to accompany me into a lake-swim next week. I've only done this once before and it was GREAT!
Sometimes its a dread facing the cold, and sometimes it comes with some, maybe not quite eagerness, but some sort of neutrality. I almost always feel satisfied, or grateful that I did the cold shower though.
The temp has been getting noticeably colder and going by last winter it'll drop several more degrees still.
I've begun getting into a cool shower for maybe a minute before turning it all the way down. Then washing up in the cold, the time seems to go faster that way and it distracts from the cold. By the time I'm done with that my body has adjusted and I stay in a minute or so longer, it usually ends up being about 3 minutes total. When the water gets its coldest at 3 minutes my hands start to slow down and it can get painful on the skin. At that point though its pretty pleasurable to get under a blanket and sit, paying attention to the bodily sensations as I warm back up.
This summer I felt more motivated and energetic than usual. Its hard to draw a firm connection between the two, but its possible.
After my hip operation, I managed a shower once I got home. The pain in my hip became excruciating, and I kind of regretted the folly, but it felt, oh! SO good to grab a cold one...! 3 minutes 38 seconds.
Then, LAST Saturday, I tore a ligament, going up the stairs. Missed my footing, You'd think I'd have bloody learnt by now, right, where to put my feet?! So am now recovering from a self-inflicted delay in healing. But am doing better than I thought I would...
Am going to venture another shower mid-week. Watch this space!
The cold weather hit this week and the water temp is hitting around 50F (10C) now. 3 minutes is fairly normal, at that point it starts to get a bit painful but I decided to push past today. After a bit I just became numb and it wasn't that bad but then at just under 5 minutes I became a bit dizzy and it felt a little dangerous (didn't want to pass out in under frozen water). I feel fine now, it was just after sticking my head under again, I'm guessing too much blood retreating from the head. Anyway, not sure there's really much more benefit from the added time, though it always feels nice as the warmth returns, so not sure if I'll try going longer again.
IMO, no need to push it too far @person. We want to be in uncomfortable/growth zone, not panic/dangerous zone. The uncomfortable/growth zone expands with time. As you note, there is probably not much benefit from going too long in very cold temps.
My friends in Norway have discovered cold plunges. They have opportunities I don't have: cold baths in public pools and the sea/lakes. They report that VERY short plunges in temperatures around 0C are lots of fun and have many benefits. The way they do it in Norway is to first go into the sauna, then take a cold plunge, then rinse and repeat. From my one experience with this method, it makes a lot of sense, since the subjective experience of cold is then much less.
I’ve been experimenting with cold-warm-cold showers as well. Our boiler takes a little while to warm up, so it’s kind of involuntary, but I like to just turn the shower all the way to cold and really cool down all the way at the end. In the summer it’s very pleasant to take the beam of the cold shower full on the chest…
I have to say, there was an article in the paper here about Wim Hof’s personal life, and that was pretty shocking. It seems he was violent towards his second wife and son, there was a court case which he lost, he was given a restraining order, she and the son both suffer from PTSD now, and his first wife committed suicide. Turns out Wim Hof is not a nice guy.
But it is true that to do these things, swimming under the ice and walking a half marathon on bare feet in the polar circle and going up high mountains in freezing cold dressed only in shorts, requires a pretty extreme personality. He is a bit crazy.
Yeah, I watched a YT video to the same effect yesterday. Link.
Isn't any form of outspoken extreme personality a bit crazy? Maybe he has a condition nobody has yet diagnosed or revealed... sometimes what we read, is not all we can know, and all we sew might be tempered to attract bigger audiences. Trend-setters, and those who tread unchartered territories are always subject to scrutiny. And humanity loves nothing better to build someone a pedestal, only to then take delight in knocking them off it...
It seems he had a pretty long history of being abusive to women and children.
Does how we feel about Wim Hof as a human being impact how we feel about the benefit of cold immersion?
Exactly...
He will be in a freezer soon enough. So to speak.
The important thing is to knock oneself (if unfortunate enough to have any worth mentioning) off any constructed pedestals...
I dunz this!
This is the article, which they made available in English as well…
https://www.volkskrant.nl/kijkverder/v/2024/the-outside-world-knows-wim-hof-as-the-eccentric-iceman-his-family-suffered-domestic-violence~v1176564/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
Thanks @Jeroen,
Does it make a difference if a Tantric Guru, Self appointed Guru, Dakini or Zen Mistress, AI or person is abusive?
Yes. It does.
Just as Jimmy Savile is not 'excused' by all the charity work he was involved with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile
Who else should we separate from their message?
Think I may cool off by having a cold shower... or hot tea. Decisions!
A different/contrary view on the allegations: Laura Hof, Wim's daughter, shared as a google doc in the official Wim Hof Facebook group.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GI4Bbk9lpOV8h9UxUa0qUgPRl5qL26S7ML-NtkFETY4/edit?usp=drivesdk
Interesting, @marcitko … it seems at least some of his exes support Wim and tell another side to the story.
Aren't there more facets to a diamond we are admiring, than the one which has currently caught our eye?
While I am all for the exposure and public being informed of a person 's nefarious or shady character, it's always worth remembering that sensationalism sells, and that sometimes, reporters don't "let the truth get in the way of a good story"....
Yeah, it seems that currently there is a tendency (in the media, in the public, in the social-media...) to first build people up and then tear them down. Both the initial building up and consequent tearing down is probably exaggerated and unrealistic.
With people being teared down (a.k.a. "cancelled") my personal solution has been to adopt the mindset that as long as 95% of things that the person is saying sound reasonable and true and helpful to me or society AND there have not been any gross misdemeanours, then I continue to listen to that person and consider him/her my teacher of sorts. If I was looking for 100% I would cancel everyone I know, including myself.
Now I'm thinking that I should be a bit more skeptical also in the building up phase.
Even Buddhist teachers fall into these considerations. With Zen Masters, it's come to the point where I'm shocked and elated whenever I find one who does NOT have proved or insinuated (usually power/sex/money) allegations.
Seems like - DOH! - we are all human after all, fallible and imperfect.
I think in large part it comes down to honesty and transparency and acknowledging and fulfilling the expectations that the person has forwarded themselves. For instance, Wim could have done well to admit his past heavy drinking and emotional dark place, if that was the case. People would have responded positively to that. At least I would. ZM's could talk about the difficulties of being celibate and either disrobe or work to change the rules so that people know what the deal is and that they are not unnecessarily harmed.
I've fallen off the cold shower bandwagon recently, haven't done one in a few months even though the water doesn't get near cold enough this time of year (about 20C).
I think I've lost some of the will to do it, and I'm enjoying the warmth and ease of a hotter shower.
Though if I had any sense I'd use the opportunity of the revelations against Hof to use that as my reason and elevate myself in the eyes of others, and perhaps even convince myself, as being noble in refusing to follow the recommendations of the wicked. What a good boy am I. 😏