Why does 1st Noble Truth only list Dukkha?

FleaMarket

I only see 4 Noble Truths list Dukkha, it's origin, cessation, and path toward cessation.
Where is the inclusion of anicca(non-permanence)/anatta(non-self)?

Jeffrey

Seems a great question. Our response to the pain of Dukkha is to somehow struggle to end that feeling. And thus arises the thirst "Tanha" for sense pleasures and I suppose aversion to whatever is blocking those pleasures. I don't think sense pleasures are wrong in themselves they just happen to be a failed strategy ultimately to free ourselves from Dukkha. I think they do work to some extent day by day we have our sense pleasures as a part of our "lives". Thus we stay in samsara. None of the things we thirst for can stay for long. Birth, aging, corruption, death; this too shall pass. Until cessation, where we let go of grasping. Non-self comes in I believe in that whatever self we conceive of is wrong if it is a passing impermanent self which we try to grasp to. It's controversial in Buddhism if there is an authentic (non suffering) self remaining after the process of the noble eightfold path is complete.

pegembara

Because what is anicca and anatta(without self-nature) is not dukkha when its true nature is realized. It isn't a problem if one realizes the danger of claiming ownership. Let the aggregates do their song and dance. Don't cling as if they belong to you.

The Blessed One said, "And which is the burden? 'The five clinging-aggregates,' it should be said. Which five? Form as a clinging-aggregate, feeling as a clinging-aggregate, perception as a clinging-aggregate, fabrications as a clinging-aggregate, consciousness as a clinging-aggregate. This, monks, is called the burden.

"And which is the carrier of the burden? 'The person,' it should be said. This venerable one with such a name, such a clan-name. This is called the carrier of the burden.

"And which is the taking up of the burden? The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. This is called the taking up of the burden.

"And which is the casting off of the burden? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving. This is called the casting off of the burden."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.022.than.html

Jeroen

I think Dukkha is enough of a topic for one teaching. It’s taken me years to get to grips with it, thats how deep it is. But the connections between buddhist truths are subtle and not always easy to discern, although it is said that each buddhist teaching also contains the seeds of all the others.

FleaMarket

What I'm hearing is misunderstanding anicca and anatta leads to dukkha. A sort of prerequisite for cessation of dukkha is understanding anicca and anatta the way they really are. So they are not in the 1st Noble Truth because they are not something to cease but to understand and realize by way of following the path.

Is it that as long as I think in terms of self and other, this dukkha is mine through tanha and aversion and I won't understand the true nature of it's coming and going?

For some reason makes me think of non-clinging properties of liquid resistance coatings

pegembara

"Whatever is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. And what is not yours?"

"Suppose a person were to gather or burn or do as he likes with the grass, twigs, branches, & leaves here in Jeta's Grove. Would the thought occur to you, 'It's us that this person is gathering, burning, or doing with as he likes'?"

"No, lord. Why is that? Because those things are not our self nor do they pertain to our self."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.101.than.html

pegembara

Without the noise, you have peace.

Shoshin1

Why does 1st Noble Truth only list Dukkha?
@FleaMarket said:
I only see 4 Noble Truths list Dukkha, it's origin, cessation, and path toward cessation.
Where is the inclusion of anicca(non-permanence)/anatta(non-self)?

In a nutshell ....Perhaps it is because of the unsatisfactory nature of existence

Everything changes, the Buddha taught. This may seem obvious, but much of the time we relate to things as if their existence were permanent. So when we lose things we think we can’t live without or receive bad news we think will ruin our lives, we experience a great deal of stress. Nothing is permanent, including our lives.

Dukkha, suffering or dissatisfaction, is among the most misunderstood ideas in Buddhism. Life is dukkha, the Buddha said, but he didn’t mean that it is all unhappiness and disappointment. Rather, he meant that ultimately it cannot satisfy. Even when things do satisfy―a pleasant time with friends, a wonderful meal, a new car―the satisfaction doesn’t last because all things are impermanent.

Anatta—not-self, non-essentiality, or egolessness—is even more difficult to grasp. The Buddha taught that there is no unchanging, permanently existing self that inhabits our bodies. In other words, we do not have a fixed, absolute identity. The experience of “I” continuing through life as a separate, singular being is an illusion, he said. What we call the “self” is a construct of physical, mental, and sensory processes that are interdependent and constantly in flux.

David

I think the inclusion/relevance of impermanence and non-self are in how we interpret/follow the 8 Fold Path.

Although all eight spokes of the wheel depend on each other, Rght View/Right Understanding is where these topics rise to the surface as far as I can tell. One problem there is when people disagree because clinging to our idea of Right View/Understanding is to then miss it.

@Shoshin1 said:
Dukkha, suffering or dissatisfaction, is among the most misunderstood ideas in Buddhism. Life is dukkha, the Buddha said, but he didn’t mean that it is all unhappiness and disappointment. Rather, he meant that ultimately it cannot satisfy. Even when things do satisfy―a pleasant time with friends, a wonderful meal, a new car―the satisfaction doesn’t last because all things are impermanent.

Isn't it funny though? We can find the most comfy, cozy and satisfying position possible and after a while, no matter how comfortable we were, we will find ourselves in discomfort.

Just imagine how uncomfortable it would be if we didn't change while everything else did.