The limits of the mind’s understanding
Jeroen
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlands Veteran
It seems to me, from reading many spiritual books, that they all add to a certain ripeness, but that they don’t need to be remembered, that in a certain way the content is of limited importance. It is the flavour, the imbibing of the words of the master, the connection with the inner guru that ultimately matters. Or perhaps the inner Buddha, if you prefer that formulation.
I spent some weeks reading Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj’s book ‘I Am That’, and in the end though I enjoyed it, the words lead me into my own mind, and not into a connection with bliss. Having finished the book and tried a few other readings for several days, none of which satisfied, this morning I tried listening to an Osho discourse. The response was immediate, there was a homecoming and a bliss.
One bit I recall from the lecture was where Osho talked about “writing love letters to existence”, which caused an immediate sense of recognition to arise. It was like I was released from several other influences in my energy, and I felt that I somewhat recovered, that I was freed a bit more from the mind. For me these things often come from sleep, that in the morning I am cleansed and fresh, energetically cleansed and that my mind is clear of restlessness and other negative influences.
The things that happen beyond the mind are mysterious, and often the best you can do is remain quiet and observe. The minds responses do not serve you well in spiritual spaces, and meditating over books is a technique that has limits. Energies that bring a cool bliss often come with blessings and aid, and should be aided in their tasks.
Comments
From what "I" gather....the mind has no limits...other than what the psychophysical phenomenon we call the conditioned self puts on it....
And thus have I heard, it as limitless potential, and expansive nature.
One of the main teachings in Mahayana Buddhism is the concept of "emptiness" (Śūnyatā).
Which is not the same as nothingness but rather the absence of inherent, independent existence.
The mind's nature is also described as empty, which suggests that it is not confined by fixed characteristics or boundaries....
Meditation practice leads to realisation, where one can come to recognise and actualise this inherent potential. AKA an unfettered mind ...
In boundless space, where thoughts unwind,
Lies the realm of the unfettered mind.
No limits bind, no fears confined,
Just clarity, open, and undefined
Well that's the plan.....
Hmm consciousness is not the mind, neither is memory the mind, although they interact with it. Nor are the senses the mind.
The mind is just this black box where thought happens, with a two-way connection to consciousness and a two-way connection to memory. I spend most of my time focussed on consciousness, ignoring the mind, which is mostly quiet, and also ignoring memory.
So @Jeroen, does this mean you're being mindfully aware of consciousness ?....Or something else?
From my understanding, the mind is not boxed in @Jeroen, it's where infinite possibilities lie...Where the Dharma patiently resides, waiting to unfold....
The Mind ( the ability to comprehend/ the capacity to understand )
Consciousness( to be aware of)
Awareness ( intrinsically knowing )
They work as a team to unfold the Dharma ...the true nature of things....
Which reminds me of this....
The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the Mind.
The Mind is the root from which all things grow.
If you can understand the Mind...Everything else is included.
~Bodhidharma~
Consciousness is the mirror that reflects all. You are aware of what it shows, but the mirror must exist nevertheless.
The mind is just a bundle of thoughts, of which our thoughts of identity are merely some. These thoughts have a source, from which they come and to which they return.
Although @Shoshin1 I do think that is a beautiful vision, it presents a different view on the mind than I have gathered…
I often read that the mind obscures our experience of the real world. That the imaginings and delusions and desires that it generates keep us entrapped in samsara. That a key goal of meditation is to let the mind become quiet.
I like Bodhidharma’s quote, and I agree with him that beholding the mind is key. But I do not see the mind as a wholly positive influence. Much of what the mind does is not beneficial.
You don’t want to make the mind into an enemy, but you want to be aware of not getting caught up in it. The mind is a good servant but a poor master, it has been said.
If a beginner stays for too long in rigpa, it can become blank and vacant. That is why it is best to train in rigpa for short moments repeated many times.
Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulku_Urgyen_Rinpoche
I knew it!
Too much mindfulness requires breaks not brokenness ...
I totally agree, the untamed monkey mind gets into all kind of mischief, it can be a real pain in the posterior at times... it's the reason why we suffer over and over again....
From what I gather, in Buddhism, Dharma practice is about taming and training the mind (Lojong in Tibetan) and without this taming and training of the mind, one remains the mind's servant, always at its beck and call...
The taming and training of the mind, unlocks its full potential, giving it the ability to explore beyond the confinements of the clinging aggregates, (the psychophysical phenomenon we call the self) whose soul purpose is one of self preservation and protection at all cost and by whatever means at its disposal...eg trickery, lies, deceit...
I could be wrong but personally I don't think that one can dismiss or underestimate the importance of the mind's involvement in such a venture when it comes to the exploration of consciousness...
The exploration of consciousness you speak of "I spend most of my time focussed on consciousness" could have only have come about through some level of mind training, that is, mind's involvement....
Consciousness's exploration is a subjective journey and a very personal one, words may help to point out the way for some, but not all will be able to see which direction the words are pointing at....this is due to the nature of the words one chooses to use to describe...
So in this sense yes the conventional mind the one we use in this conventional world (which monkey mind plays havoc with at times ) can be quite limited when it comes finding suitable words to describe an indescribable experience...
I guess one could kind of describe the experience as consciousness exploring itself through the six sense door lenses of my being...which was (for want of a better term ) just mind blowing...
Things are never quite what they seem
When one finally awakes from the illusive dream
I think exploration of consciousness involves mind over matter....and the primary instrument of inquiry is a well trained mind....
In the ultimate sense, there is no mirror even. For without the reflections, there is no mirror. Dependent arising. You might say the mirror merely describes a function. It exists only by virtue of its reflections.
Ultimately empty of self nature.
Hmm I don’t think the mind can be used to reach beyond the mind. Then you are likely to be carried away by imagination. The mind functions by dividing the world, first into subject and object, and then into other things. Which means that to reach unity one wants the mind to be quiet, to not engage with it.
Thinking is just one of the mind's many functions and yes it is true that when the intellect ventures into where it does not belong, it becomes lost in its own confuse... hence why it is best not to think to much about anything ....
One of its functions is to come up with and work through options, to help point out the way so to speak, for example, the mind is used to bring forth curiosity and desire to observe consciousness, and to find out what this experience would be like... Consciousness is not just observed without first thinking about what it would be like, and one's curiosity and desire to observe, first involves a journey through the mind's thought process....
The mind can be liken to a space craft which can take the human being on a journey of adventure and discovery, a journey to new exciting places to explore, to new heights where, if this human being has made preparations, ( a well trained and disciplined mind) it may get the opportunity to put on a celestial body space suit to leave the space craft for a short while and steps into the experience, catching a glimpse into amazing and at times indescribable experiences....And this is done all from the comfort of the being's own home/being...thank to the mind and body's cooperation...
No doubt these types of experiences can leave a lasting impression...One's outlook on life may never be quite the same again...
It seems to me that any observing of consciousness is bound to fail, because it is in consciousness that the mind sees reflected all that it knows. All you see are the reflections.
At best you can use the mind to observe the mind, which is a worthwhile endeavour and a good use of a well-trained mind. There are hints in Nisargadatta’s writing on how to do that.
We may not quite see eye to eye on this but I do see where you are coming from @Jeroen....
Through my mind's eye.....
I don't think this psychophysical phenomenon we call the self can really focus on consciousness...but consciousness can (if it is not disturbed) explore itself through us...Thus have I heard our bodies are in a sense just appendages, a projecting part of consciousness's experience, the means through which it can explore itself...
In other words we are just the (more often than not) dirty/defiled windows in which consciousness attempts to look out through, (the six sense doors of consciousness) and for the most part mental defilements obstruct the view...
When it comes to us focussing on consciousness, if anything, it's the other way round, we serve as instruments through which consciousness examines and refines itself....
The Buddha's Dharma is the window cleaner and its practice is the cloth which gradually wipe away the defilements....
And Mother Nature's evolution plan has designed us in such a way for this to happen....
.
The preciousness of the gift of life...full of wonder...what a wonderful present...
Indeed.
We do refine, reframe, return to different forms of self. The Real Self (TM) ... as trademarked is the flux, flex, featured and experienced in a continuum through which we wonder, wander and ultimately enfold into ...
Well-said! I'm in!
"The mind that opens to a new idea, never returns to its original size"
~Albie Einstein~