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Have I ever truly meditated?

JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlands Veteran

I have done vipassana, shamatha, shikantaza and others, by the book. If meditation is not concentration or technique, then I don’t know if I have ever done it right. ‘Just sitting’ came closest, as a relaxed not-doing which was not tiring.

But even then I never experienced a state of enhanced awareness, it was always just the same.

Ren_in_black

Comments

  • IdleChaterIdleChater USA Veteran
    edited March 13

    Were you given instructions by a qualified meditation instructor?

    how
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran

    Some of the techniques yes, others no.

  • KotishkaKotishka Veteran

    I experience the same, the chatter goes at some point. Wish me luck.

    lobster
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    I ask myself that sometimes. I've rarely experienced deep concentration or blissed out type meditations. My meditation life has largely been about returning to the experience of the body and letting go of thoughts. Just that has a profound impact on my well being. So I always try to learn and improve but I don't sweat it, whatever it is I am doing seems to have a positive impact.

    lobsterDagobahZen
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran

    I find I get the best results when I have no goal other than meditation itself. When I expect the improvement to be gradual throughout my life. At first I needed a bit of faith but once I saw the benefits happening gradually I stopped worrying about doing it "right". Then again, I had formal instruction and doubt I would have seen as much improvement going it alone.

    DagobahZenpersonIdleChater
  • Shoshin1Shoshin1 Sentient Being Oceania Veteran
    edited March 14

    All meditation practitioners who honestly persevere will eventually have awakenings of differing strengths and longevity. The most common prelude to such things though seem to arise when the practitioner no longer seeks out such experiences.

    Yep that's right 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

    The higher the expectations, the greater the disappointment...

    lobsterDagobahZenperson
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran

    It seems to me that the quality of awareness does vary. After a particularly deep nights sleep, you are still somewhat ‘fuzzy’ first thing in the morning, and real awareness doesn’t arrive until later. But once that full awareness does arrive, it is largely invariant.

    So with meditation, it doesn’t necessarily take you to spaces of increased awareness. You can focus outward, on the body and the senses, or inwards, on the contents of mind or the gaps between thoughts or on the sense of being.

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    It is very useful to not label as in:

    • "I am not meditating"
    • "I am bored"
    • "My leg has gone to sleep"
    • "Hoping the meditation gong is being heard soon ... is not meditation"
    • "Funny thing happened on the way to the cushion. Still thinking about it"
    • "Why am I torturing myself. This is dukkha"
    • "Nothing is happening"

    Before you know it you will be just sitting around like the rest of us ...

    IdleChaterRen_in_black
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran

    I feel that true meditation should not be tiring. If meditation demands such focus and concentration that afterwards you feel tired, then something is not right. Part of this is finding a meditation that fits with you. There are many.

    lobster
  • IdleChaterIdleChater USA Veteran

    I don't think you're actually meditating. Your expectations may be a bit out of line.

    Keep this in mind. Shakyamuni didn't meditate to relieve stress, or relax or exercise mindfulness. He meditated to find the solution to birth, old age, sickness and death, and became Buddha.

    Why do you meditate? Maybe you should start there.

    how
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited March 14

    From my perspective, today...

    While concentration is a necessary skill to develop to meditate,
    mistaking that concentration for meditation is an attachment in the making.
    As some Tibetans warn about some forms of meditation....Don't become like a cat watching a mousehole.
    In other words, are you just observing the ebb and flow of all the phenomena that is arising, living, and departing or are you trying to direct it?
    There is just about every possible feeling in the world that will arise at some time or another in a meditation practice. Judging our meditation in response to such visitations shows where we have chosen to shift back into a habituated mentality over what the meditation process offers.
    Addressing the unknown, compared to what we've known, can often be challenging (and tiring) but is it not what we've been beckoning to?
    3 steps forward - 2 steps back.

    Jeroenlobster
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran

    @IdleChater said:
    Why do you meditate? Maybe you should start there.

    It seems to me that meditating with a goal in mind is to set yourself up for a mind-generated hallucination, it builds a certain tension. The mind will generally try to give you what you want.

    That is why I meditate with ‘just sitting’, it means you let your mind empty of all things other than sitting. No goals, just letting the sensation of sitting be in body and mind, and watching that.

    @how said:
    There is just about every possible feeling in the world that will arise at some time or another in a meditation practice. Judging our meditation in response to such visitations shows where we have chosen to shift back into a habituated mentality over what the meditation process offers.

    Indeed, judging means you have stepped back into the mind. If you can let things come and go, and watch quietly and dispassionately then you have gotten somewhere, you have gained a measure of peace and separation from the mind.

    It is not very different from what the Buddha sat through under the Bodhi tree, a succession of fears and temptations made by your mind especially for you.

    howlobsterShoshin1
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited March 15


    According to some teachers, you are doing the right thing when there is
    awareness of awareness or according to the Thai Forest Masters, you have realised the Buddho, or 'The one who knows'.
    https://newbuddhist.com/discussion/25357/like-oil-and-water

    How do you know you are aware of awareness?
    Direct your attention away from the objects and towards the subjective knower.
    What does the knower know?
    The knower knows that everything that arises passes away, everything without exception.
    Like a dream, a mirage, a bubble, and emptiness.

    ANICCA

    The following verse is attributed to Bodhidharma, the first Zen Patriarch.

    A special transmission outside the scriptures,
    Not founded upon words and letters;
    By pointing directly to one’s mind
    It lets one see into one’s own true nature and thus attain Buddhahood.

    "In the same way, friends, even though a noble disciple has abandoned the five lower fetters, he still has with regard to the five clinging-aggregates a lingering residual 'I am' conceit, an 'I am' desire, an 'I am' obsession. But at a later time he keeps focusing on the phenomena of arising & passing away with regard to the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance. Such is feeling... Such is perception... Such are fabrications... Such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' As he keeps focusing on the arising & passing away of these five clinging-aggregates, the lingering residual 'I am' conceit, 'I am' desire, 'I am' obsession is fully obliterated."

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.089.than.html

    Shoshin1
  • Ren_in_blackRen_in_black Georgia Explorer

    What a great question!

    Jeroen
  • AvisitorAvisitor New York New

    That is a great question. Sitting there in the beginning with thoughts flowing. Start by not following the thought and bring attention back to breath. Still to experience anything the mental thoughts goes on. Then back to breath. So, am I trying to stop thought? Or am I trying to bring attention back to breath? Concentrate and bring the mind to one pointed attention?

    Jeroenlobster
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran

    Yes! I’ve tried that. Many times, actually, but it never proceeded beyond sometimes sitting for 10 minutes looking at the breath, and then eventually forgetting again. I suppose you could call it meditation, but I think it was more an exercise in concentration.

    If you do bring the mind to one-pointed attention, then for how long should you persist?

  • AvisitorAvisitor New York New

    I have tried to bring the mind to one pointed attention. It doesn't last for long. And there is usually the mental thought behind it saying here I am with no thoughts focused upon my breath. So, I can not say I am doing it right yet. Assuming one can focus the mind and attention upon one point, the shutting down of this self should allow one to perceive other things. However, if there is a glimpse of thoughts then the self which governs this present moment hold dear to the present perceptions?? So, how long should one persist? Guessing as long as it takes to get it right?? Then perception should shift?

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    Guessing as long as it takes to get it right?? Then perception should shift?

    Indeed. Most sangha, one of the three jewels, practice concentrated awareness. Not introspection, mind stream wandering. Not hyper ventilation dancing or similar, get them high, flim flam …
    So single minded, single purposed focussed concentration is 'good at the start, good in the middle and good in the end'

    Avisitor
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran
    edited April 15

    I asked the question of Google’s Gemini chatbot, it’s reply was not bad, here it is:

    ======

    “There's no single perfect way to meditate, and what constitutes "correct" meditation can vary depending on the meditation technique you're practicing. However, here are some general signs that your meditation practice might be going well:

    • Increased Focus and Concentration: Do you find yourself becoming more aware of your thoughts and feelings without getting caught up in them? Can you sustain your attention on your breath or mantra for longer stretches of time?

    • Greater Relaxation and Inner Peace: Do you feel calmer and more at ease after meditating, even if it's just for a short period? Does your mind feel less cluttered and your body more relaxed?

    • Heightened Awareness: Do you notice your surroundings more vividly after meditating? Are you more aware of your body sensations, thoughts, and emotions?

    • Reduced Stress and Anxiety: Do you feel less stressed and anxious after meditating regularly?

    • Improved Emotional Regulation: Do you find you can manage difficult emotions with more ease after consistent meditation practice?

    Here are some things to keep in mind:

    • It's Normal to Have Wandering Thoughts: Don't get discouraged if your mind wanders during meditation. This is perfectly normal for beginners (and even experienced meditators!). The key is to gently bring your attention back to your breath or mantra without judgment.

    • Meditation is a Skill: Like any skill, meditation takes practice to develop. Be patient with yourself and keep practicing regularly to see improvement.

    • Different Techniques Have Different Goals: Some meditation techniques focus on relaxation, while others emphasize developing concentration or cultivating insight. The way you "feel" after meditation might vary depending on the technique you're using.

    Here are some additional tips to help you know if your meditation is effective:

    • Learn from a Qualified Teacher: Consider attending a meditation class or workshop with a qualified teacher who can guide you and answer your questions.

    • Find a Technique that Works for You: There are many different meditation techniques. Experiment with different ones to find what resonates with you.

    • Track Your Progress: Keep a meditation journal to track your experiences and any changes you notice over time.

    • Focus on the Journey, Not the Destination: Meditation is a journey, not a destination. The goal is to cultivate present moment awareness and a calmer mind. Enjoy the process and don't get hung up on achieving a specific outcome.

    Remember, the most important thing is to find a meditation practice that you can integrate into your life consistently and that brings you a sense of peace and well-being.”

  • Shoshin1Shoshin1 Sentient Being Oceania Veteran

    Track Your Progress: Keep a meditation journal to track your experiences and any changes you notice over time.

    Hmm

    lobsterAvisitor
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