Connection
person
Don't believe everything you thinkThe liminal space Veteran
Many people in the psycho/spiritual world are talking about the importance of connection with others these days. I think this is different than the more renunciative practices of the past. I'm thinking it has to do with the way people on the spiritual path are living lives in the world and other people are an important part of that.
There is a lot of research showing that the quality of our lives revolves a great deal around the quality of our relationships. Again this is different than the sort of happiness that can come from spiritual attainment.
I've been trying to find a life of balance living in the world with a spiritual pursuit. However, I have a hard time with connection. I've mentioned at times that I readily take on the emotions of others, what "new agers" (not sure this is the term anymore) call an empath. So when I attempt to connect with people as it progresses it starts to become overwhelming for me. Its like having a big bucket of water dumped into my emotional cup. More often than I'd like, it can be fairly negative and unpleasant, not that I'm so pure, but I'm unaccustomed to the new feeling. Depending on how much time we spend together is correlated with how much time it takes to become clear and still again. It makes this element of a healthy worldly life feel largely out of reach.
Family seems doable, because I think we share enough emotionally that it isn't so overwhelming. So I'm not alone and I don't really have that lonely craving feeling. In its absence I suppose there is a tradeoff in that there is more peace and calmness in my life than most.
Just venting a bit, its a source of frustration in my life.
Comments
That seems very familiar to me, I have had similar experiences of being an empath early in my life. But as I have gotten older I have become more robust, with better boundaries and a more ordinary way of relating.
Thanks for sharing 🙂
I first picked up the difference between empathy and compassion from Matthieu Ricard (MR). Both involve a positive attitude to the other, but empathy takes on the feeling(s) of the other, while compassion does not. As MR claims, compassion only has positive effects for both self and other, while empathy, as you note, can have negative effects for self. MR talks at length about "empathetic distress", especially in the helping professions. He went so far as to participate in scientific studies on the difference between the two as a guinea pig. You might enjoy and benefit from reading up on the difference a bit, if you have not already. It's possible that with a bit of refraiming and practice you can lessen the negative aspects of empathy, while retaining the positive aspects of good will and compassion and, thus, have better relationships, without feeling overwhelmed.
That is insightful @macitko
Refraiming is a useful tool. It is used in a variety of fields. The one I use at the moment is behavioral change through light and deep trance.
Distress and stress is a form of what in Buddhism is often described as 'suffering'. One of the reasons people suffer or feel worse doing seated meditation, they suffer or feel stressed by it, is they are not yet comfortable and relaxed with 'just sitting'.
This is why 'insight timer' which has been mentioned in another thread is such a useful tool.
There are others.
For example in Hindu Dharma
https://selfdefinition.org/awareness/abandon-release.htm
Its been with me in spite of my efforts. What did you do to change? Or is it more a function of a more controlled environment? There is an element to it where if I'm in my own environment for enough time (like during my slow work winters) I have more of a buffer, more reserves maybe, something like that. Maybe I just have to wait until retirement?
I'm hopeful that this is the answer. I've been aware of this distinction, the early research was part of the Dalai Lama's Mind and Life institute.
As I've explored I'm wondering if this definition of empathy is different than the phenomenon I am dealing with. It's not just distress I'm picking up on, its all emotion, at times its positive feelings, and I use it to my advantage by listening to Dharma teachers who have a wholesome vibe. So I'm unsure how compassion relates to positive emotion as an antidote.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, I still feel like there is something there. I hear people mention when they talk about compassion practice that its easier to start with individuals and then later develop compassion for humanity at large. In my practice I've found that compassion arises easier for me for humanity at large than it does for individuals. I've heard a few other people mention something similar, where they care deeply about humanity but less about individual people... I don't know, I feel like each individual's happiness is "mind made" and largely up to their own efforts, all I can offer is perhaps a little respite or knowledge. Its humanity's overall welfare that I can add my drop to.
I wonder if empaths have a characteristic response to doing Tonglen "sending and taking"?
How do you mean?
Being in my home space has helped me as well. But mainly it lessened with becoming older? I got other problems in return though, mainly a kind of inner turmoil at times, when I face certain financial challenges or someone unknown is in my space.
Okay, I'm just saying you're only like a year or three older than me. It seems unlikely that age will change anything for me, in fact it has seemed to become more intense as I age. Plus I've read other older people still with it. Sometimes things change and we're not really aware of why, perhaps you did do some things but the change to this was more of a side effect? Just looking for some insight if you have any idea of something constructive I might try.
Well, I spent about ten years in leadership roles on software teams. This certainly changed me into being more hands-on with other people rather than simply being more empathic while standing off. Perhaps that made the difference. It was an opportunity to exercise my empathy, to put it to use while talking through technical problems, although it wasn’t always easy to find the will to express myself.
The word empathy is nebulous, it gets used in different ways. I feel like we may not be on the same page, or I'm just not understanding where you're coming from.
What I hear you saying is talking about empathy as understanding others perspectives and maybe overcoming shyness?
I'm talking less about understanding others (though that's a part of it) and more taking on others emotions as if they were my own. And I deal with people professionally all the time in a way that I need to understand what they want out of me and their project.
I found this MR article clear and to the point. Maybe there is more in his book 'Altruism'.
https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/empathy-and-the-cultivation-of-compassion/
Could you say a little more about how you see your empathy being a negative or problem in your life in practical terms? To my mind, we've gone straight from the issue to seeking a solution, however, possibly, there is nothing to fix, just to accept, and can even be seen as a virtue and strenght of yours?
Ah ok. I used to do empathy as you are talking about it when I was very young up to my early teenage years. I’m not sure exactly when it stopped or why.
I hink this kind of empathy has to do with a baby-time feature, early development by learning to mimic others emotions and facial expressions. I don’t see it as being particularly useful for an adult.
I want to be polite, but this comes off as very condescending. Like its because I'm sort of a baby and I should probably just stop because as an adult it isn't useful for me to do anymore. Since you were awesome enough to just do it without any conscious effort, why am I being so foolish as to continue the behavior?
There is something to the developmental angle of it though. We all have mirror neurons that we use to help us understand others behaviors and emotions. I wonder if there is some sort of regulatory or limiting function that is lacking in "empaths"? Like for most people the mirror neuron stays behind a sort of firewall, but in my case it spills out into other areas of the brain. My sister sleepwalks, she also has a seeming deficit in the brain's ability to shut things down, so maybe there's a genetic component.
It is very much a double edged sword. I do think if the option were to keep as is or get rid of entirely I'd keep it as is. Ideally what I'd want is an on/off switch or some way to mitigate the negative while preserving the positive.
Edit: Its mostly about my mind doesn't feel like my own much of the time. I want to do spiritual work, develop and let go. But a lot of the time its more about clearing out the accumulation of the day/week, I can't keep ahead of it in a normal work week.
But this sort of thing leads to an openness of perspective and insight that I'm not sure would otherwise be available.