Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Meditation without a teacher
Fenix
Veteran
It probably varies from person to person, but how how hard is it to learn medtation without a teacher, or should you even try? I am unfortunate enough to live in a rural area and do not see any possibility to attain a teacher.
also does anyone have any descriptions on how meditation teachers actually help, what they do, whats so significant that they do
P.S. this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNoRzgIcvrI
when he talks about standing in the gates of your heart, the intent of meditation etc. Is it to be taking into consideration say in my case, when I only practice meditation on the breath. should I be "thinking" about the intent of my meditation or is that just some advanced stuff...?
also does anyone have any descriptions on how meditation teachers actually help, what they do, whats so significant that they do
P.S. this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNoRzgIcvrI
when he talks about standing in the gates of your heart, the intent of meditation etc. Is it to be taking into consideration say in my case, when I only practice meditation on the breath. should I be "thinking" about the intent of my meditation or is that just some advanced stuff...?
0
Comments
Of course there are some practices which will be better learnt with a real live teacher but basic mindfulness of the breath and similar practices can - imo - be learnt through books/youtube/dvd's etc etc.
p.s. you are not unfortunate to live out in the country!
They all teach almost the same thing so if you can get hold of some good books and listen to various monks (I recommend the trustworthy sources) talk on youtube I don't see any real need for a class. The only reason for needing a class is maybe to have face to face interaction with a teacher and talk about your own specific problems with him but to tell you the truth the problems we get in meditation at the beginner stage are common to everyone so most of them are addressed in good books and dhamma talks.
So you are already well equipped
I do now, and funnily enough my back muscles must've strengthened because I have no problems for sitting for 20 to 30 minutes with a straight back, chin slightly tucked in.
In fact, I've heard sitting with a straight back has health benefits in itself; it helps prevent an arched back when you're old, and the fact that you're sitting up straight helps give your internal organs some space; rather than being squashed up inside you when we sit in a slouched position.
I remind myself of this, even when I feel I am not getting much out of meditation. I have also heard not to judge how good or bad your meditation is, you will still benefit from a session in the future, even if you don't think its working.
Oh, I also had problems with clear nasal passages, but I found a remedy for that too. I use a neti pot (google for it if you don't know what one is; you can purchase them cheaply from e-bay) to wash out my nasal passages and then the very act of 'forced' breathing through my nose eventually clears them if they're still blocked.
Loose clothing is also a must for me; I like sports wear!
I hope some of this has helped.
Seriously most types of meditation the worst that can happen is it won't help you... That includes those taught in popular books. At least you will develope questions. And persistance.
Before a practitioner experiences any "profound discoveries" they will benefit from slower breathing, lower blood pressure and lower stress hormone levels. If this was all that would ever be accomplished during meditation it would be worthwhile and extremely helpful.
It is in the relaxed state that our minds are the most alert. The modern world bombards us with unprecedented stimulation. Without spending some time in relaxation, stress and illness are almost inevitable.
Note: 'you' means anyone, not specifically Brxan, about whom I know nothing...
books and the internet are excellent sources of information but from my experience they only scratch the surface. the deepest and most profound teachings are those that are shared with ones teacher.
This is often stated but how can anyone describe to another their experience in still, silence?
In other words, sort it out for yourself?
- Raven
However one does not need a personal teacher to learn the basics of watching the breath and it's not helpful to scare off newcomers with the idea that they must have a teacher. It's not fair to place unnecessary obstacles in front of such a beneficial practice for so many.
On another note and speaking from direct personal experience, anyone who suffers from serious chronic pain will benefit in all the usual ways from a simple sitting practice but it doesn't end there. We now know that chronic pain actually destroys the gray matter of the brain over time and one of the only truly effective ways to combat this degeneration is through the practice of meditation. This is why my doctor, who is a General Practitioner (and not even a Buddhist), insisted I start a practice and this was before I actually came to Buddhism.
I do not know anyone who has had any issues mental or otherwise because they did the breath meditation
But this is just like any other practical area.
I dont think if you are serious you necessarily need to find a teacher. What I do think is the case is if you do it by yourself it requires more work.
In the past it was true that you would need a teacher, but nowadays I dont think its the case at all. If you read, watch movies, email people, use message boards on a regular basis and put in effort to learn you can learn even better than with a single teacher. The problem is keeping the effort going.
As Federica and others told me long ago, when I joined this forum, all I had to do was sit and breathe. And concentrate on the breathing. But it takes time to fully master the thing, so good luck !
P.S.: Like you, I live in the rural parts of my country, far from what would be one of the few buddhist centres in my country.
I agree with all the DIY (do it yourself) advocates here. Besides, books and the internet are extensions of teachers. Like Tikal2012 and others said, keep digging and experimenting. But don't close yourself off to finding a face-to-face teacher in the future. Having to figure it out yourself has pros and cons, but so does in person instruction.
May all beings find the causes of true happiness within.
bucky
Teacher can catch you before it gets too bad. Meditation in a group also create a better mood, as isolation may cause you to become more withdrawn and egotistical.
Buddhism is just a philsophy. Practices is not fun and games.
This is a just suggestion of caution, no point in anyone debating about it, it's for your own good.
There are tons of quality anapanasati instructions in books and online. Even in the highly unlike event you get "addicted" to "jhana" that's still a "good" thing in comparison to all the other addictions.
May all beings find the causes of true happiness within.
Spiny
Spiny
Spiny
They cant teach you anything you dont already know.
Who says that they are meditating properly???
there no right or wrong really...
Of course its nice to have faith in a teacher and let them teach us becuase they have been doing it longer so we trust them to teach us something. HOWEVER, you can just practice on your own. Look up a couple guides online first. The most important thing is to sit - still - comfortably - in silence. Let your thoughts come (dont dwell) and let them go. Concentrate on your breathing. a good start is to count each breath. up to 10. when you get distracted, go back to counting the breath. It does actually get pretty easy if you keep it up. and it can change your life. But remember i might be talking crap. what im saying might only work for me and my teacher +(sangha)..try it out. and good luck.
There are also audio tapes that will lead you thru a practice session
Where did NOTaGangsta say, "DONT LISTEN TO THIS GUY'
It isnt a big mistake at all. who taught the very first person to meditate??
im guessing he taught himself."?
I like it. It's a good point. But I don't know who to attribute it to.
May all beings find the causes of true happiness within.
:buck: bucky
This arrogance is a big mistake.
Skillful teachers change their teaching style to fit the student.
Frankly, meditation it'self is usually not enough, most people lacks discipline etc in other areas.
Spiny
"I generally hold the view that ultimate Reality (i.e., Buddha Nature) is everywhere and can be observed by anyone at any time regardless of the religious path they have chosen. For example, all religions have mystics that seem to have very similar experiences.
Given this, I feel that looking directly at our experiences is the most important thing we can do. Teachers are less important but they can speed up the process of finding the truth. However, most Buddhist literature says that teachers are indispensable to finding enlightenment."
Lama Shenpen:
Without a teacher in some sense one wouldn't even have the idea of a path or how to follow it. Of course one could read or have an impersonal connection with the teacher or teachings - that may be as you say enough in some circumstances.
Student:
"Assuming that this is true, anyone who wants to follow the Buddhist path must find a teacher. This leads me to three related questions:
1.By joining the Awakened Heart Sangha, is it sufficient to interact with you, the teacher, remotely via phone and email, or must we periodically have face to face meetings?"
Lama Shenpen:
It may be sufficient without face to face meetings - we will have to see. I guess it depends what sufficient means in this context - sufficient for your present needs perhaps.
Student:
"2. If face to face meetings are needed, would it be more practical to find a teacher in the United States where I live?"
Lama Shenpen:
You may find that by doing the course you become clearer in your mind about what it is you might need from a teacher that you could meet face to face and then perhaps that teacher will turn up - so the question resolves itself.
Student:
"3. If it is best to find a teacher in the USA, what teachers do you recommend? There are many Lamas in the Nyingma and Kagyu traditions."
Lama Shenpen:
Yes I know there are many Lamas and as far as I know they are all genuine � it's just a matter of finding one that teaches in a way that you find you can respond to. I don't know of anyone teaching quite as I teach.
Maybe the nearest is Shambala training and the Buddhist Vajradhatu training - which is all coming from Trungpa Rinpoche.
On the other hand I am always weary of the idea you must have a teacher or you will harm yourself. All we are doing is seeing the true nature of reality. It is the true nature with or without a teacher, just as we were breathing oxygen long before science discovered oxygen. Sometimes it feels a bit like a control thing to me.
So I guess I am advocating a middle path. Don't put too much or too little importance on having a teacher.
Also I am personally not from, nor attracted to Tibetan paths, which seem to emphasis the need for a teacher the most, and I am from a path that does not emphasis meditation, so take my advice with a large grain of salt.
Can your head spontaneously explode?
IMO a solid meditation practice probably would be enough, unfortunately a lot of Buddhists don't seem to meditate all that much. IMO the most important role of a teacher is to encourage students to practice.
Spiny
The most dangerous situation/biggest mistake you can make, however, is when you find an incompetent or inauthentic teacher. :zombie:
I suspect that those who argue most for teachers are usually those who (still) respect their teachers, and/or want to become teachers, and/or who are teachers. Liberation of mind is not in any way dependent on any teacher. On your own or with a teacher, the way is still perilous. But even those who go the teacher way have to let go of their attachment to their teacher sooner or later. You can't call someone who still needs a teacher someone with a liberated mind.
The most dangerous danger, though, is THE WORLD, :sawed: and no teacher can protect you from that Teacher. For that you need an internal refuge.
May you all find the causes of true happiness within.
:buck:
When someone gives their spiritual journey over to a teacher 100% it can be a dangerous thing and a recipe to be easily manipulated.