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Simple (mabye) question about intoxicants

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Comments

  • questionfulquestionful
    edited April 2010
    So can I post the video of a psychologist speaking of how to use a drug's effect, a statistical study showing the likelyhood that a drug's use has long term positive effects, and a government report on the health effects of a drug? I think these things would be very helpful to anyone that wants to have right view about drugs.

    I was using meditation as an example, I have already investigated it. But let's see, if I have to think of a question, it would be.....
    Is there any point in a meditator's progress at which the meditation experience changes dramatically? Besides enlightenment.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited April 2010
    I wonder if one day there will be pills to help people meditate better?
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited April 2010
    thickpaper wrote: »
    I wonder if one day there will be pills to help people meditate better?
    are you trying to torture "questionful"?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2010
    Nope. People have been meditating for thousands of years without needing any form of artificial stimulant or aid.
    I guess if nobody's come up with anything so far, it would mean that the real thing is infinitely superior to anything a chemical could induce, no?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2010
    questionful wrote: »
    So can I post the video of a psychologist speaking of how to use a drug's effect, a statistical study showing the likelyhood that a drug's use has long term positive effects, and a government report on the health effects of a drug? I think these things would be very helpful to anyone that wants to have right view about drugs.
    Are the drugs legal, and freely available on a health scheme?
    I was using meditation as an example, I have already investigated it. But let's see, if I have to think of a question, it would be.....
    Is there any point in a meditator's progress at which the meditation experience changes dramatically? Besides enlightenment.
    Yes I know you were.
    And I responded specifically pertinently to meditation.
    I'm fully aware your question really focussed on drugs, Questionful....

    Every meditator's experience is different. you'd have to ask every meditator that question individually, wouldn't you?
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited April 2010
    patbb wrote: »
    are you trying to torture "questionful"?

    Nope. Interesting though. I can't imagine they will be able to come up with a pill that will replace meditation, but maybe assist. That would be a good thing in my humble opinion.

    What do you think?
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited April 2010
    People like to work with many items that help meditation. Music, smells, words, nature sounds and so forth. They can certainly help things settle. I think the major problem with something that influences the mind chemically is that even if and when it stopped the mind from bouncing, the next space that the mind could move into would probably be retarded by the changes... much like putting higher octane fuel in a car but removing the engine.
  • questionfulquestionful
    edited April 2010
    thickpaper wrote: »
    I wonder if one day there will be pills to help people meditate better?
    federica wrote: »
    Nope. People have been meditating for thousands of years without needing any form of artificial stimulant or aid.
    I guess if nobody's come up with anything so far, it would mean that the real thing is infinitely superior to anything a chemical could induce, no?
    No. That is simply not logical.

    [caveman] "I wonder if one day there will be tools to help people process food better?"

    [other caveman] "Nope. People have been eating food for thousands of years without needing any form of artificial cutting material (steel). I guess if nobody's come up with anything so far, it would mean that tearing shit apart with stone tools is infinitely superior to anything a metal could do, no?"

    I don't mean to offend, I'm just trying to put things in a way that will help you see from my point of view.

    Running barefoot can get you very far. Running with shoes is easier. The shoes will wear out, and you might not always have access to shoes, but if you're trying to run from norcal to socal, it would certainly help to accept some shoes for at least a small part of the journey.

    I believe there are drugs that aid meditation. No, federica, they are not legal. This means that many people, including the people that claim the right to decide how everyone else should act during their lives (the government), believe that these drugs are bad. I don't blame you for paying attention to them. You should pay attention to anyone who claims to have an important opinion. However, I believe that you should take other people's opinions with a grain of salt, and reserve the desicion-making to yourself. Buddha said place no head above your own.

    At this point I would like to have included a link to a video but the psychologist speaking in the video mentions illegal drugs repeatedly.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited April 2010
    questionful wrote: »
    I believe there are drugs that aid meditation...

    I haven't heard of any such drugs, nor can I imagine what they would be. That doesn't mean they cant exist, or maybe a device etc... but why do you belive there are these things already?

    Also, I would imagine that side effects, distraction and attachment to such things could cause problems outside of the "meditation benefits".

    Imagine if we could all pop a pill and be super-vipissanas. Hmmm... pipe dreams.
  • questionfulquestionful
    edited April 2010
    Why do I believe there are drugs that aid meditation? Because I have directly experienced meditation improved by a drug. Specifically, a certain drug GREATLY (it was shocking) improved my ability to see how perceptions are bullshit at a core level.
  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited April 2010
    drugs aren't illegal, but is this a monastery where they are? internet sanctums and the sanctum of the psyche?
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited April 2010
    questionful wrote: »
    Why do I believe there are drugs that aid meditation? Because I have directly experienced meditation improved by a drug. Specifically, a certain drug GREATLY (it was shocking) improved my ability to see how perceptions are bullshit at a core level.

    From what I know of insight meditation the aims are much deeper than the mere perceptual alterations of hallucinations.

    shrug
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2010
    questionful wrote: »
    No. That is simply not logical.

    [caveman] "I wonder if one day there will be tools to help people process food better?"

    [other caveman] "Nope. People have been eating food for thousands of years without needing any form of artificial cutting material (steel). I guess if nobody's come up with anything so far, it would mean that tearing shit apart with stone tools is infinitely superior to anything a metal could do, no?"
    Another puerile argument.

    You don't get it do you?
    I am going to say this one last time:
    THE PROMOTION OF TAKING OR PARTAKING IN ILLEGAL DRUGS ON PUBLIC FORUM BREAKS NATIONAL LAW.
    I don't mean to offend, I'm just trying to put things in a way that will help you see from my point of view.
    You are being highly offensive, and you are insulting my intelligence, and the intelligence of everybody here who has chosen to adhere to the five precepts, who feels perfectly satisfied with their meditation without the aid of drugs, or chemicals, and who has already said that to take such drugs, and the advocacy of taking them, is unacceptable on this forum.
    Running barefoot can get you very far. Running with shoes is easier. The shoes will wear out, and you might not always have access to shoes, but if you're trying to run from norcal to socal, it would certainly help to accept some shoes for at least a small part of the journey.
    More puerile arguments. It's not illegal to run with or without shoes.
    I believe there are drugs that aid meditation. No, federica, they are not legal.
    In that case, why did you ask me at all?
    This means that many people, including the people that claim the right to decide how everyone else should act during their lives (the government), believe that these drugs are bad.
    I agree with them.
    I don't blame you for paying attention to them. You should pay attention to anyone who claims to have an important opinion
    Add valid and legal....
    However, I believe that you should take other people's opinions with a grain of salt, and reserve the desicion-making to yourself. Buddha said place no head above your own.
    I am doing so. You think I have no brain between my ears to make my own decisions?
    At this point I would like to have included a link to a video but the psychologist speaking in the video mentions illegal drugs repeatedly.

    mention this, allude to it, hint at it or suggest anything of the kind, just one more time, and I will ban you without warning.

    Do I make myself completely clear?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2010
    questionful wrote: »
    Why do I believe there are drugs that aid meditation? Because I have directly experienced meditation improved by a drug. Specifically, a certain drug GREATLY (it was shocking) improved my ability to see how perceptions are bullshit at a core level.

    funnily enough, I managed this without drugs.
    Your perception that drugs improved your meditation, is bullshit, by the way.
This discussion has been closed.