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Actually I am trying to look forward trying to prevent mend any bad karma that I may do to other that why I thinking if my acts and the hole I left behind should I go and see if I can do anything, is this not needed?
Guilty, you've asked this multiple times already and you've been answered multiple times.
If someone wanted to have a little hole in their wall for peeping, they'd do it themselves. It isn't rocket science. If some stranger came to my home to reveal a peep hole in my bathroom wall I would phone the freakin' police. If I moved into a house with a hole in the wall, I would get it repaired myself.
Have you bothered to read the article on kamma, or are you going to insist that it's some kind of retribution system of God? It's like you WANT to be punished. Kamma is the habitual tendencies of your mind towards certain skillful/unskillful behaviours. You've already let go of the kamma of that inappropriate action. Now you can let go of the kamma of the guilt you keep putting yourself through. Thus your question above makes no sense.
Actually it is on the alumium type door, actually i mend it up by stuffing some hardered soap into the hole, i am scared some teenager/adult may spot the difference in colour and then repoke the hole (as it is more easy now and may cause them to have the bad thought) and this time if he get caught and go jail
So like what guyc say if this happen i am also not responsible for anything?
Is this how it works?
I will read the article again, so sorry i just glance through
make a mountain out of a molehill
Cliché to make a major issue out of a minor one; to exaggerate the importance of something.
Come on, don't make a mountain out of a molehill. It's not that important. Mary is always making mountains out of molehills.
Actually I am trying to look forward trying to prevent mend any bad karma that I may do to other that why I thinking if my acts and the hole I left behind should I go and see if I can do anything, is this not needed?
You could not possibly be responsible for this. This is definitely not needed. If the other person chooses to use the hole for that purpose, then that is his problem and not yours.
Could it be that these apparently inappropriate feelings of guilt and anxiety are symptoms of another issue?
Have you thought about talking with a counselor or a therapist or a psychiatrist about this? This degree of guilt and anxiety just does not seem proportionate at all. This could be symptomatic of depression or a serious anxiety disorder. Obsessing about this to this degree is just not right.
Do you live in a country where peeping through a hole to a toilet can send you to jail?
Also - please illuminate this for me: How can it be THAT bad to look at someone through a peeping hole? It seems to me that both you, and the society in which you live has kind of an obsession with peeping holes...
Anyway, is this serious or are you playing some joke on us? A lot of people has offered their help and advice, and have used a lot of time explaining both common sense and karma to you. Please be a little respectful and at least try to reflect on what has been said to you, and write a post with some kind of sensible reaction to it.
Hi I am definately not playing prank this really happened but so sorry u know when emotion of guilt high intellect low
I am from the Asian country if I commit such crime at my age I may be send to rehabiliation home not jail I just stating an example
I am very thankful for all your advises and definately with deep gratitude . The aluminium door is a thin type anyway let me summarise what I learn from all your guidance
Karma is action done that places a potential seed of bad happening in the future but it is still dependent on other factors like environment and we can stop this bad karmma from growing if we mend our ways and reslove not to do it again. We should then try to do good karma so that hopefully this bad karma will just remain as a seed
for my situation, the thing I have done is not right but I did it when I was a teenager when I learning to grow up so now I have realize my mistake and stopped my action. I should not go tell my aunt as this may hurt her more. I can tell my uncle or mother but also may cause some ackwaardness
Repenting in front of ualll is enough and I have made my guilt too huge and I have not fully understood what is karma
if someone commit an bad karma base on the stuff I left behind is not my fault too and I will not get any more bad karma
Hi I am definately not playing prank this really happened but so sorry u know when emotion of guilt high intellect low
I am from the Asian country if I commit such crime at my age I may be send to rehabiliation home not jail I just stating an example
I am very thankful for all your advises and definately with deep gratitude . The aluminium door is a thin type anyway let me summarise what I learn from all your guidance
Karma is action done that places a potential seed of bad happening in the future but it is still dependent on other factors like environment and we can stop this bad karmma from growing if we mend our ways and reslove not to do it again. We should then try to do good karma so that hopefully this bad karma will just remain as a seed
for my situation, the thing I have done is not right but I did it when I was a teenager when I learning to grow up so now I have realize my mistake and stopped my action. I should not go tell my aunt as this may hurt her more. I can tell my uncle or mother but also may cause some ackwaardness
Repenting in front of ualll is enough and I have made my guilt too huge and I have not fully understood what is karma
if someone commit an bad karma base on the stuff I left behind is not my fault too and I will not get any more bad karma
please correct my above understanding if wrong
thanks
Hi, 'guilty'. Let me start with a famous Zen Koan:
14. Muddy Road
Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.
Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.
"Come on, girl" said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.
Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"
"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"
Do you see the point in that?
Also, there are 3 types/degrees of Karma. Body of mind, speech and body. Mind has the least karmic consequences, speech has more, and body has the most. Your offense was mostly one of mind, even though there was an element of bodily action. You lusted after your aunt. Your aunt was not actually harmed. Neither was your uncle. Neither was your mother or anyone else for that matter. Telling them now would cause distress and do no actual good. Telling the new home-owner would cause distress.
You are concerned about karma, then pay attention to the consequences. I know you feel bad about doing something like that and wish you could make it better somehow. That's why you wish you could clear the air. Well, you want to make it better? Then use this as a motivation to practice. Be very devoted and actually attempt to understand the 4 Noble Truths and the 3 marks of existence.
You want to know a secret. That 'you' who is so sinful and impure, is nothing but a complex bundle of elements. Are you going to beat a bundle of elements over the head or are you just going to cut off the elements that cause problems? You want to do justice? Get to the heart of our situation and cut the 3 poisons off at their root. You have a great deal of passion. You should use it, but not just to beat yourself over the head. You should use it to study your very being and follow the 8-fold path.
Best wishes. Use this guilt as an opportunity to practice Dharma. It will do you and the world more than enough good to make up for your teenage transgressions 10 times over.
I believe that karma is really nothing but "momentum in the continuum of consciousness", and has very little, if any, direct manifestation in the manifestation in the world of cause-and-effect. What I am saying is that the important work for you is generating "positive momentum in the continuum of consciousness", which is what you are doing. Your having begun to let go of the inappropriate guilt and shame you are feeling is moving in a positive direction, and in my opinion, all you need to do is keep going in that positive "spiritual" direction and leave the past in the past and keep moving toward a more positive way of life.
If feelings of guilt and shame like this are normal in your culture, then they are, and you can work with this in that context. I myself am in the USA, and this degree of guilt and shame and obsession in my context would be considered abnormal and something that a person should consider going to a psychiatrist about. I say that because I myself have had feelings of guilt and shame and obsession very similar to this, and it was only by going to a psychiatrist and taking antidepressant medication that I was able to overcome it. I don't know if that's applicable in your culture or not, but that is my own experience- and the ideas about how karma works in terms of your interior spiritual state are really only my understanding of karma and my own opinion, and I could be wrong.
Thanks for ur suggestion, actually guilt is terrible feeling it will leave u feeling terrible and little energy to do other task and progress in life. I hope u too can Try to forgive yourself and don't re-lie on medication
Thanks for ur suggestion, actually guilt is terrible feeling it will leave u feeling terrible and little energy to do other task and progress in life. I hope u too can Try to forgive yourself and don't re-lie on medication
thanks
I do not have any problem with relying on medication. I think Buddhism recommends taking medication if necessary and I have gotten a great deal of relief from it. Have you considered that? I, too, was feeling terrible and had little energy. I realized that my feelings were coming from chemical depression and no amount of forgiving myself would work, because my feelings were inappropriate and illogical and had no relationship to reality.
This is just my opinion, but I think you should very very strongly consider medication too.
Hi thanks I will consider
hi valtiel, is my understanding of karma correct? Meaning it is just a seed and because I mend my ways bad effects can be prevented?
Hi thanks I will consider
hi valtiel, is my understanding of karma correct? Meaning it is just a seed and because I mend my ways bad effects can be prevented?
Thanks again
no.
you already suffered the "bad effects".
the guilt that you have felt, the shame, the debates in your head weather you should tell your family or not etc...
and now is time to let go. Let go of that feeling of guilt. Let go of wanting it to have never happened.
It happened, just like the sun rise in the sky today. It happened. nothing you can do about it. just let it go.
It is nothing more than a memory in your brain. A couple of neurons connected together; nothing more. It is not real.
Traditionally, the practice of repentance is done through chanting relevant sutra verses and bowing before a Buddha image, which represents the presence of the Buddha bearing witness to our sincerity. However, if one has done wrong to someone who is contactable, one should apologise to him or her personally, or the practice of repentance before the Buddha would be rendered a hollow practice lacking in sincerity. Even if the other party is unlikely to forgive us, we should do our part in seeking forgiveness - this is also the practice of humility. Actual remedial action of making up for any physical or psychological damage caused to others is also important - or repentance would literally be merely saying "sorry".
Dear all,
This is the part of the article that i read which make me feel i should go apologise, is it true, what your opinions
Actual remedial action of making up for any physical or psychological damage caused to others is also important - or repentance would literally be merely saying "sorry".
This is the key, friend. In your case, it seems to many of us that the "actual remedial action" is by staying silent with your mistakes. Can't you see how it is psychologically more peaceful for everyone if you just let it go?
Actual remedial action of making up for any physical or psychological damage caused to others is also important - or repentance would literally be merely saying "sorry".
I think if more damage is done by attempting to carry out the remedial action, then trying to carry out any remedial action should just not be done.
Have you given any more thought to getting help with this from a mental health professional?
I guilt feeling still seems very strong to me.. I do really wish I could confine my guilt with my close ones, if not I just feel I am hiding something from them, I want to tell it to my mother but just like many advise it may cause her to feel uneasy and may feel sorry for her brother whose wife I have peeped at.. Really feel I am in a not solution situation..
So in my siuation as I choose not to confess means my negative karma may be more unable to be purified?
I guilt feeling still seems very strong to me.. I Really feel I am in a not solution situation..
So in my siuation as I choose not to confess means my negative karma may be more unable to be purified?
I am just suggesting that if you seek some kind of professional help with this, or maybe the help of a qualified Buddhist master, then you may be able to make some gains with this.
You say "I guilt feeling still seems very strong to me.. I Really feel I am in a not solution situation.." and "my negative karma may be more unable to be purified?"
I am only speaking from my own experience here, but I have experienced deep depression and profound anxiety in my lifetime, and I know that excessive feelings of guilt and feeling like one will never be relieved of that guilt are pretty much classic symptoms of depression.
It's like if you had a broken leg. If all you did was obsess about it and discuss it with us here on this bulletin board, your leg would still be broken. And you will not be relieved of this broken leg until you seek help from a person that is capable of treating a broken leg properly.
And I certainly don't mean to be uncharitable or uncompassionate here- quite the contrary. This has been going on for two or three weeks now, and you do not appear to have made any progress with these apparent obsessive feelings of guilt. I would guess that you have excessive feelings of guilt in other areas of your life, and have the same feeling that you will not be relieved of the guilt no matter what happens.
If you came to this bulletin board and wrote "I have a broken leg", then I think the general consensus would be that you should seek out a practitioner that knows how to properly treat a broken leg.
Please be well and do something specific and goal-oriented to help yourself.
Actual remedial action of making up for any physical or psychological damage caused to others is also important - or repentance would literally be merely saying "sorry".
You caused no physical or psychological damage to anyone. Saying you're sorry and revealing what you did, will cause damage. You are simply not listening, and there is absolutely nothing we can do for you. What do you want us to say at this point? Take SherabDorje's advice, please.
If someone peeped at me naked and then apologized I would probably bust into laughter. But then again that's me. :P
This is the part of the article that i read which make me feel i should go apologise, is it true, what your opinions
Nah. Don't apologize. It will probably bother them a lot. Think of this as partly taking a remedial action, because you are sparing them for part of the repercussions of your voyeurism. And do seek a therapist, insistent, strong, negative feelings need some kind of intervention.
Hi vatiel, definately I have not caused her physical damage but for pyschological damage I am not sure as the second time when I peeped I noticed she seem to have noticed the hole and came forward to see out of fear I stopped peeping but she knows I am outside. Till now she has not told me off,I not sure is she suffering by herself becos of this, she is a reservered and quiet person who do not interact with us or other family member often
should I presume she does not know and not suffering any pyschological damage and hence not apologise to her on the other hand if she really does not know or this does not bother her I will not know also that why I am in dilemma again
my uncle seems still concerned about me that why I feel guilty also if I confess to him I will spoilt our relationship
I am just suggesting that if you seek some kind of professional help with this, or maybe the help of a qualified Buddhist master, then you may be able to make some gains with this.
You say "I guilt feeling still seems very strong to me.. I Really feel I am in a not solution situation.." and "my negative karma may be more unable to be purified?"
I am only speaking from my own experience here, but I have experienced deep depression and profound anxiety in my lifetime, and I know that excessive feelings of guilt and feeling like one will never be relieved of that guilt are pretty much classic symptoms of depression.
It's like if you had a broken leg. If all you did was obsess about it and discuss it with us here on this bulletin board, your leg would still be broken. And you will not be relieved of this broken leg until you seek help from a person that is capable of treating a broken leg properly.
And I certainly don't mean to be uncharitable or uncompassionate here- quite the contrary. This has been going on for two or three weeks now, and you do not appear to have made any progress with these apparent obsessive feelings of guilt. I would guess that you have excessive feelings of guilt in other areas of your life, and have the same feeling that you will not be relieved of the guilt no matter what happens.
If you came to this bulletin board and wrote "I have a broken leg", then I think the general consensus would be that you should seek out a practitioner that knows how to properly treat a broken leg.
Please be well and do something specific and goal-oriented to help yourself.
What do you want us to tell you? We have all given our advice, repeatedly, but it hasn't sufficed. I feel very bad for you, because it honestly sounds like this is torturing you, and I hope you'll soon be able to forgive yourself and just let this all go. I would really advise seeking an actual teacher within a Sangha, and/or seeing a therapist to discuss these issues with. I think you'll find everyone here will gladly support you, but it seems we can't offer any more assistance beyond that.
just to understand more about karma, I saw a thread named a big mistake and one of the reply say that in one of th Buddhist scripture one guy did terrible acts but after meeting the Buddha, realize his mistake and follow the eight Noble path but in the end karma caught up with him and he died
Just to understand when I saw this, I was thinking could karma be not only due to yourself but of you cause harm to other they will come back for harming you or they could manifest in next life to harm you
so in karma point of view althoght I may have repented and started anew but if any case the other party which in my case may know that I peeped may be holding this shame and because of this if I do not apologise hold this shame and frustration or if any means they realize after death this secret maybe by some cosmic means and this frustration manifest into bad karma then come to seek grivence in my next life (maybe her husband) means I still have no control of karma right even if I do alot of good karma
is my analysis correct that why Buddha tell us to apologise to get rid of Any physical or physchological effects that have caused on others
for my case I really do not know if she know I have done that or holding any grievence or shame that I may need to address to prevent any bad karma this life or other lives.Be it her or my uncle
Is my thinking right sorry for causing so much troubling to answer my silly questions
It is my understanding of the advice you have been given so far that you should speak personally with a qualified Buddhist master or with a mental health professional. I'm not sure we can tell you anything besides that. I don't know if anyone here is qualified to help you with your interpretation of karma and its consequences, so that would point strongly to a personal conversation with a qualified Buddhist master. And many of us have observed that your strong feelings of guilt and their unrelenting nature, coupled with your profound preoccupation with this guilt, may indicate that you need to discuss this with a qualified mental health practitioner. Please be well and do something specific and goal-oriented to take care of yourself.
I ask you for a personal promise that you will visit with a qualified Buddhist master person-to-person, or do the same with a qualified mental health practitioner.
Bob (I don't want to encourage you by calling you "Guilty" so you are now "Bob"),
just to understand more about karma, I saw a thread named a big mistake and one of the reply say that in one of th Buddhist scripture one guy did terrible acts but after meeting the Buddha, realize his mistake and follow the eight Noble path but in the end karma caught up with him and he died
My friend, we all die. The Buddha himself died. That isn't kamma. It's life. We have tried to explain to you, that the HELL you are putting yourself through, is your kamma. It has already "caught up" with you. You have already been "reborn into Hell" for it but you can let it go whenever you wish.
As for the rest, again, you really need to go speak with a proper teacher. You're now speculating and imagining the most bizarre possibilities and it's serving you no beneficial purpose. Teacher. Now. Please.
You sound very unwell. The obsessive guilt that you describe is destructive. Please take the excellent advice that you have been given by SherabDorje.
metta
It's all just thoughts in your head, nothing more. No-one was harmed. You need to come to understand this to be able to let go. No need to worry about karma or whatever. There is no-one keeping track of what you have done or what you haven't to decide your future.
If you keep obsessing over what happened in the past, you'll never feel at peace.
Keeping these thoughts alive about what happened in the past, won't set you free from them. Try to understand this and it should help you letting go from them.
It seems like you are very obsessed by these thoughts, so it might take some time. So you have to practice understanding every time these thoughts come up. Or maybe even leave everything behind for some time, if it's too hard.
i guess i am too extreme but feeling of uncertainty of karma and guilt is real disturbing
okie thanks but it is hard to find a qualified buddhist master, i do not have any contacts; i will try to search for one
I guess if my auntie is still well (i not sure if she is struggling inside) then i guess she did not know, or pretend not to know so that i will not be embarrassed or have forgiven me in some way, all ways i guess is better no to bring the matter up again right
As for karma that i am concerned, i hope as what you all say that i have gone through hell already
As for other person karma if they cannot forgive me because i did not apologise; i do not know how to resolve unless they do blame me even if they know of the bad karma i done
I could ask my mother advise maybe she know how to deal with it better, but must have the courage to say it
I have to do good karma to hopefully purify these bad ones
I have repented and resolve to be mindful so as not to repeat this again
As for my uncle, if he knows he would have confronted me already right, maybe he does not know but i still feel sorry for what i have done to him cause is his wife; so unmindful of me; if guilt i hope i can get rid or should i apologise to him
I would suggest "Bob" that when you meet with a qualified mental health professional that you print this entire thread off and take it with you for her/him to read... It may give them some insight into where the problem lies and save them some time in determining where they might need to start in helping you.
actually I am sure she knows about the hole but I am not sure I she knows it's me because I saw her looking towards the hole and out of fear I stopped peeping
just to check with all one thing
if I got 50 chance that she may know I have peeped and is feeling paranoid and she does not want to confess my crime and is suffering, this physcological damage and the karma that I bring also is it enough just to repent and taking remendial action by not telling? What if she is expecting a apology
And does age have any part to do with the amount of bad karma I create
I would suggest "Bob" that when you meet with a qualified mental health professional that you print this entire thread off and take it with you for her/him to read... It may give them some insight into where the problem lies and save them some time in determining where they might need to start in helping you.
Please seek help with this from a qualified mental health professional. Please promise me personally that you will seek help with this from a qualified mental health professional. The things you are now talking about actually have nothing to do with karma. You must seek the help of a qualified mental health professional.
Guilty, it seems you already have a solution which you deem as fit in mind. If so, please stop asking for advice. It will cause frustration for those who advise out of goodwill. Just remember, whatever you decide to do, it should not be for your own sake. It has been repeated several times by many that confessing can actually bring more harm than good (if there's any other than decreasing your guilt). It shouldn't matter whether she has seen you (she probably has moved on if she knew since you were young then). You are the only one still stuck in your own memories.
Recall the second law of the Four Noble Truths.
2. The Noble Truth of the causal arising of Dukkha, which is grasping, clinging and wanting;
You are allowing yourself to cling, to grasp onto your own guilt. The most suitable solution is very simple (but not easy), to let go of it. That is the essence of Buddhism in my point of view.
Choose and make your decisions. Just remember, you have already punished yourself for 15 years.
I just want to ask about the fourth point; power of practise, for me now seems like i will deliberately do good to appease my guilt and ask for purification, is this correct. or i should just be normal and get on normally
the problem is i do not know how much good karma is enough for purification
This is summarised in the following Four Powers of Purification:
Power of the Object: One should practice thinking of all sentient beings one may have hurt. Traditionally, one remembers all sentient beings and the Three Jewels of Refuge (Buddha, Dharma and Sangha), by generating compassion for all sentient beings and taking refuge.
Power of Regret: This should not be senseless guilt or self-recrimination, which are said to be useless emotional torture. What is intended here is to examine oneself and one's actions and to recognise that negative actions done in the past were very unwise.
Power of Promise: As a logical consequence of the above, one should promise not to repeat these negative actions. It is good if one can promise to avoid a negative behaviour for a specific time, or at least promise that one will put effort in avoiding repetition. Not being honest at this stage makes the practice useless or even harmful to oneself.
Power of Practice: Basically any positive action with a good motivation can be used as practice. Traditionally in Buddhism, one can practice e.g. making prostrations (throwing oneself to the floor - as a means to destroy pride), making offerings (to counteract greed), reading Buddhist texts (to counteract ignorance and negative thoughts), reciting mantras etc.
I think you may finally have it. It seems that this practice would be a very good thing for you to do, especially "This should not be senseless guilt or self-recrimination, which are said to be useless emotional torture. What is intended here is to examine oneself and one's actions and to recognise that negative actions done in the past were very unwise."
I would think doing this practice once should be enough to take care of your present difficulty. What I want to emphasize is that you don't engage in useless emotional torture.
But it should be noted that I am not your Master or Teacher in any sense and it's not for me to say definitively what's enough. From my own experience, I would think that doing this once should be enough to take care of the feelings you're having from your present difficulty. What I would say is that, if your feelings of guilt do not go away after you've done this practice once, then you should seek the advice of a qualified mental health professional.
I would hope for your sake that you would be able to get on normally after doing this once. This is of course a good practice to do daily, maybe even twice daily, and there would be no harm in it, as long as your intention is to properly free yourself from unnecessary feelings of guilt instead of worrying about it obsessively.
I'm going to copy this and do it myself. Please take good care of yourself and go see a mental health professional if this practice does not help you with your issue within a few days. Once you do this practice and realize that your past actions were very unwise, you should be able to free yourself from these feelings.
It shouldn't matter whether she has seen you (she probably has moved on if she knew since you were young then). You are the only one still stuck in your own memories.
Actually this is the point i want to confirm also that she moved on and i should apologise for any past torment she may have gotten; i am quite sure she know about the hole but not sure she know its me; that why i want to try to ask her. Any way not to cause hurt but achieve my odjective?
QuoteAny way not to cause hurt but achieve my odjective?
Not that I can see. It all happened more than 15 years ago. I think bringing it up now would cause more hurt, which would be very unnecessary 15 years later. I think the only real problems here are your guilt feelings, which appear out of proportion to the problem. That is why I have been strongly suggesting that you see a qualified mental health professional if Buddhist practice doesn't help you with the guilt feelings.
I think, karmically speaking, that it would cause a great deal of unnecessary hurt for you to bring it up again after 15 years. I think you need to rid yourself of this unnecessary guilt in the best way you can and just move on with your life. I myself have been going through a Major Depressive Episode during the past several months and have had similar feelings of guilt but not as badly, and I know my symptom pattern well enough to realize that it's really happening inside my nervous system now and has nothing to do what happened in the past.
Everytime i think i have hurt my close ones, i just cannot help but need to say sorry now, i getting quite bad, i do not know if i can hold on for how long before i confess
To me, it seems like this "confession" is really just making another hole to see what is behind closed doors. You already made the mistake once, don't let your lust cause you to make the mistake again. You should deal with the obsessive behaviors that causes you to poke a hole in the bathroom door and the incessant need you have now.
You want to know if they're upset or upset with you, and this action you keep describing of confessing to them sounds like it is being driven by the same lust that caused you to poke a hole in the door and peep in the first place. Grow up! Its time to do whats right, not what feels good... based on what is best for you.
Obviously, you have to do what you do, but I simply hope you're now adult enough to so the right thing. Get your face away from the stupid door already. Sheesh!
Hmmm... I'm starting to think the compassionate thing to do for everyone is to simply close this thread... For all we feel we are helping Bob it seems, by us throwing so much energy into "helping" him with sound advice, we are only serving to help him cling to his abnormal guilt... if that truly is what is behind his posts.
The suggestion for Bob to seek assistance from a mental health professional by numerous members has gone completely ignored... There really isn't any more any of us can do for him.
Comments
Guilty, you've asked this multiple times already and you've been answered multiple times.
If someone wanted to have a little hole in their wall for peeping, they'd do it themselves. It isn't rocket science. If some stranger came to my home to reveal a peep hole in my bathroom wall I would phone the freakin' police. If I moved into a house with a hole in the wall, I would get it repaired myself.
Have you bothered to read the article on kamma, or are you going to insist that it's some kind of retribution system of God? It's like you WANT to be punished. Kamma is the habitual tendencies of your mind towards certain skillful/unskillful behaviours. You've already let go of the kamma of that inappropriate action. Now you can let go of the kamma of the guilt you keep putting yourself through. Thus your question above makes no sense.
Past is past.
So like what guyc say if this happen i am also not responsible for anything?
Is this how it works?
I will read the article again, so sorry i just glance through
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/make+a+mountain+out+of+a+molehill
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/federal+case
You could not possibly be responsible for this. This is definitely not needed. If the other person chooses to use the hole for that purpose, then that is his problem and not yours.
Could it be that these apparently inappropriate feelings of guilt and anxiety are symptoms of another issue?
Have you thought about talking with a counselor or a therapist or a psychiatrist about this? This degree of guilt and anxiety just does not seem proportionate at all. This could be symptomatic of depression or a serious anxiety disorder. Obsessing about this to this degree is just not right.
Do you live in a country where peeping through a hole to a toilet can send you to jail?
Also - please illuminate this for me: How can it be THAT bad to look at someone through a peeping hole? It seems to me that both you, and the society in which you live has kind of an obsession with peeping holes...
Anyway, is this serious or are you playing some joke on us? A lot of people has offered their help and advice, and have used a lot of time explaining both common sense and karma to you. Please be a little respectful and at least try to reflect on what has been said to you, and write a post with some kind of sensible reaction to it.
and yet a 15-year-old boy has already managed to put a whole through it once before...
I am from the Asian country if I commit such crime at my age I may be send to rehabiliation home not jail I just stating an example
I am very thankful for all your advises and definately with deep gratitude . The aluminium door is a thin type anyway let me summarise what I learn from all your guidance
Karma is action done that places a potential seed of bad happening in the future but it is still dependent on other factors like environment and we can stop this bad karmma from growing if we mend our ways and reslove not to do it again. We should then try to do good karma so that hopefully this bad karma will just remain as a seed
for my situation, the thing I have done is not right but I did it when I was a teenager when I learning to grow up so now I have realize my mistake and stopped my action. I should not go tell my aunt as this may hurt her more. I can tell my uncle or mother but also may cause some ackwaardness
Repenting in front of ualll is enough and I have made my guilt too huge and I have not fully understood what is karma
if someone commit an bad karma base on the stuff I left behind is not my fault too and I will not get any more bad karma
please correct my above understanding if wrong
thanks
Hi, 'guilty'. Let me start with a famous Zen Koan:
Do you see the point in that?
Also, there are 3 types/degrees of Karma. Body of mind, speech and body. Mind has the least karmic consequences, speech has more, and body has the most. Your offense was mostly one of mind, even though there was an element of bodily action. You lusted after your aunt. Your aunt was not actually harmed. Neither was your uncle. Neither was your mother or anyone else for that matter. Telling them now would cause distress and do no actual good. Telling the new home-owner would cause distress.
You are concerned about karma, then pay attention to the consequences. I know you feel bad about doing something like that and wish you could make it better somehow. That's why you wish you could clear the air. Well, you want to make it better? Then use this as a motivation to practice. Be very devoted and actually attempt to understand the 4 Noble Truths and the 3 marks of existence.
You want to know a secret. That 'you' who is so sinful and impure, is nothing but a complex bundle of elements. Are you going to beat a bundle of elements over the head or are you just going to cut off the elements that cause problems? You want to do justice? Get to the heart of our situation and cut the 3 poisons off at their root. You have a great deal of passion. You should use it, but not just to beat yourself over the head. You should use it to study your very being and follow the 8-fold path.
Best wishes. Use this guilt as an opportunity to practice Dharma. It will do you and the world more than enough good to make up for your teenage transgressions 10 times over.
If feelings of guilt and shame like this are normal in your culture, then they are, and you can work with this in that context. I myself am in the USA, and this degree of guilt and shame and obsession in my context would be considered abnormal and something that a person should consider going to a psychiatrist about. I say that because I myself have had feelings of guilt and shame and obsession very similar to this, and it was only by going to a psychiatrist and taking antidepressant medication that I was able to overcome it. I don't know if that's applicable in your culture or not, but that is my own experience- and the ideas about how karma works in terms of your interior spiritual state are really only my understanding of karma and my own opinion, and I could be wrong.
But I hope this helps.
thanks
I do not have any problem with relying on medication. I think Buddhism recommends taking medication if necessary and I have gotten a great deal of relief from it. Have you considered that? I, too, was feeling terrible and had little energy. I realized that my feelings were coming from chemical depression and no amount of forgiving myself would work, because my feelings were inappropriate and illogical and had no relationship to reality.
This is just my opinion, but I think you should very very strongly consider medication too.
hi valtiel, is my understanding of karma correct? Meaning it is just a seed and because I mend my ways bad effects can be prevented?
Thanks again
you already suffered the "bad effects".
the guilt that you have felt, the shame, the debates in your head weather you should tell your family or not etc...
and now is time to let go. Let go of that feeling of guilt. Let go of wanting it to have never happened.
It happened, just like the sun rise in the sky today. It happened. nothing you can do about it. just let it go.
It is nothing more than a memory in your brain. A couple of neurons connected together; nothing more. It is not real.
thanks for your advise
http://viewonbuddhism.org/guilt.html
Traditionally, the practice of repentance is done through chanting relevant sutra verses and bowing before a Buddha image, which represents the presence of the Buddha bearing witness to our sincerity. However, if one has done wrong to someone who is contactable, one should apologise to him or her personally, or the practice of repentance before the Buddha would be rendered a hollow practice lacking in sincerity. Even if the other party is unlikely to forgive us, we should do our part in seeking forgiveness - this is also the practice of humility. Actual remedial action of making up for any physical or psychological damage caused to others is also important - or repentance would literally be merely saying "sorry".
Dear all,
This is the part of the article that i read which make me feel i should go apologise, is it true, what your opinions
thanks
This is the key, friend. In your case, it seems to many of us that the "actual remedial action" is by staying silent with your mistakes. Can't you see how it is psychologically more peaceful for everyone if you just let it go?
With warmth,
Matt
I think if more damage is done by attempting to carry out the remedial action, then trying to carry out any remedial action should just not be done.
Have you given any more thought to getting help with this from a mental health professional?
So in my siuation as I choose not to confess means my negative karma may be more unable to be purified?
I am just suggesting that if you seek some kind of professional help with this, or maybe the help of a qualified Buddhist master, then you may be able to make some gains with this.
You say "I guilt feeling still seems very strong to me.. I Really feel I am in a not solution situation.." and "my negative karma may be more unable to be purified?"
I am only speaking from my own experience here, but I have experienced deep depression and profound anxiety in my lifetime, and I know that excessive feelings of guilt and feeling like one will never be relieved of that guilt are pretty much classic symptoms of depression.
It's like if you had a broken leg. If all you did was obsess about it and discuss it with us here on this bulletin board, your leg would still be broken. And you will not be relieved of this broken leg until you seek help from a person that is capable of treating a broken leg properly.
And I certainly don't mean to be uncharitable or uncompassionate here- quite the contrary. This has been going on for two or three weeks now, and you do not appear to have made any progress with these apparent obsessive feelings of guilt. I would guess that you have excessive feelings of guilt in other areas of your life, and have the same feeling that you will not be relieved of the guilt no matter what happens.
If you came to this bulletin board and wrote "I have a broken leg", then I think the general consensus would be that you should seek out a practitioner that knows how to properly treat a broken leg.
Please be well and do something specific and goal-oriented to help yourself.
You caused no physical or psychological damage to anyone. Saying you're sorry and revealing what you did, will cause damage. You are simply not listening, and there is absolutely nothing we can do for you. What do you want us to say at this point? Take SherabDorje's advice, please.
Nah. Don't apologize. It will probably bother them a lot. Think of this as partly taking a remedial action, because you are sparing them for part of the repercussions of your voyeurism. And do seek a therapist, insistent, strong, negative feelings need some kind of intervention.
should I presume she does not know and not suffering any pyschological damage and hence not apologise to her on the other hand if she really does not know or this does not bother her I will not know also that why I am in dilemma again
my uncle seems still concerned about me that why I feel guilty also if I confess to him I will spoilt our relationship
just to understand more about karma, I saw a thread named a big mistake and one of the reply say that in one of th Buddhist scripture one guy did terrible acts but after meeting the Buddha, realize his mistake and follow the eight Noble path but in the end karma caught up with him and he died
Just to understand when I saw this, I was thinking could karma be not only due to yourself but of you cause harm to other they will come back for harming you or they could manifest in next life to harm you
so in karma point of view althoght I may have repented and started anew but if any case the other party which in my case may know that I peeped may be holding this shame and because of this if I do not apologise hold this shame and frustration or if any means they realize after death this secret maybe by some cosmic means and this frustration manifest into bad karma then come to seek grivence in my next life (maybe her husband) means I still have no control of karma right even if I do alot of good karma
is my analysis correct that why Buddha tell us to apologise to get rid of Any physical or physchological effects that have caused on others
for my case I really do not know if she know I have done that or holding any grievence or shame that I may need to address to prevent any bad karma this life or other lives.Be it her or my uncle
Is my thinking right sorry for causing so much troubling to answer my silly questions
Lol!
To the OP,
The things we learn as a kid.
No one was harmed, why share your embarrassment with others, and create theirs to alleviate your own?
Learn to laugh at curiosity, and take from it the lesson, that sometimes self discipline is better in the long run.
I ask you for a personal promise that you will visit with a qualified Buddhist master person-to-person, or do the same with a qualified mental health practitioner.
My friend, we all die. The Buddha himself died. That isn't kamma. It's life. We have tried to explain to you, that the HELL you are putting yourself through, is your kamma. It has already "caught up" with you. You have already been "reborn into Hell" for it but you can let it go whenever you wish.
As for the rest, again, you really need to go speak with a proper teacher. You're now speculating and imagining the most bizarre possibilities and it's serving you no beneficial purpose. Teacher. Now. Please.
metta
If you keep obsessing over what happened in the past, you'll never feel at peace.
Keeping these thoughts alive about what happened in the past, won't set you free from them. Try to understand this and it should help you letting go from them.
It seems like you are very obsessed by these thoughts, so it might take some time. So you have to practice understanding every time these thoughts come up. Or maybe even leave everything behind for some time, if it's too hard.
thanks for your advises
below are the points of what i feel
i guess i am too extreme but feeling of uncertainty of karma and guilt is real disturbing
okie thanks but it is hard to find a qualified buddhist master, i do not have any contacts; i will try to search for one
I guess if my auntie is still well (i not sure if she is struggling inside) then i guess she did not know, or pretend not to know so that i will not be embarrassed or have forgiven me in some way, all ways i guess is better no to bring the matter up again right
As for karma that i am concerned, i hope as what you all say that i have gone through hell already
As for other person karma if they cannot forgive me because i did not apologise; i do not know how to resolve unless they do blame me even if they know of the bad karma i done
I could ask my mother advise maybe she know how to deal with it better, but must have the courage to say it
I have to do good karma to hopefully purify these bad ones
I have repented and resolve to be mindful so as not to repeat this again
As for my uncle, if he knows he would have confronted me already right, maybe he does not know but i still feel sorry for what i have done to him cause is his wife; so unmindful of me; if guilt i hope i can get rid or should i apologise to him
All these are in my mind right now
actually I am sure she knows about the hole but I am not sure I she knows it's me because I saw her looking towards the hole and out of fear I stopped peeping
just to check with all one thing
if I got 50 chance that she may know I have peeped and is feeling paranoid and she does not want to confess my crime and is suffering, this physcological damage and the karma that I bring also is it enough just to repent and taking remendial action by not telling? What if she is expecting a apology
And does age have any part to do with the amount of bad karma I create
thanks again
Please seek help with this from a qualified mental health professional. Please promise me personally that you will seek help with this from a qualified mental health professional. The things you are now talking about actually have nothing to do with karma. You must seek the help of a qualified mental health professional.
guilty, may you and all beings be well and happy.
metta
Recall the second law of the Four Noble Truths.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/pathmaps.htm
You are allowing yourself to cling, to grasp onto your own guilt. The most suitable solution is very simple (but not easy), to let go of it. That is the essence of Buddhism in my point of view.
Choose and make your decisions. Just remember, you have already punished yourself for 15 years.
I just want to ask about the fourth point; power of practise, for me now seems like i will deliberately do good to appease my guilt and ask for purification, is this correct. or i should just be normal and get on normally
the problem is i do not know how much good karma is enough for purification
This is summarised in the following Four Powers of Purification:
- Power of the Object: One should practice thinking of all sentient beings one may have hurt. Traditionally, one remembers all sentient beings and the Three Jewels of Refuge (Buddha, Dharma and Sangha), by generating compassion for all sentient beings and taking refuge.
- Power of Regret: This should not be senseless guilt or self-recrimination, which are said to be useless emotional torture. What is intended here is to examine oneself and one's actions and to recognise that negative actions done in the past were very unwise.
- Power of Promise: As a logical consequence of the above, one should promise not to repeat these negative actions. It is good if one can promise to avoid a negative behaviour for a specific time, or at least promise that one will put effort in avoiding repetition. Not being honest at this stage makes the practice useless or even harmful to oneself.
- Power of Practice: Basically any positive action with a good motivation can be used as practice. Traditionally in Buddhism, one can practice e.g. making prostrations (throwing oneself to the floor - as a means to destroy pride), making offerings (to counteract greed), reading Buddhist texts (to counteract ignorance and negative thoughts), reciting mantras etc.
thanksI would think doing this practice once should be enough to take care of your present difficulty. What I want to emphasize is that you don't engage in useless emotional torture.
But it should be noted that I am not your Master or Teacher in any sense and it's not for me to say definitively what's enough. From my own experience, I would think that doing this once should be enough to take care of the feelings you're having from your present difficulty. What I would say is that, if your feelings of guilt do not go away after you've done this practice once, then you should seek the advice of a qualified mental health professional.
I would hope for your sake that you would be able to get on normally after doing this once. This is of course a good practice to do daily, maybe even twice daily, and there would be no harm in it, as long as your intention is to properly free yourself from unnecessary feelings of guilt instead of worrying about it obsessively.
I'm going to copy this and do it myself. Please take good care of yourself and go see a mental health professional if this practice does not help you with your issue within a few days. Once you do this practice and realize that your past actions were very unwise, you should be able to free yourself from these feelings.
you don't write about something old, without a current TRIGGER.
What happened recently that caused this to come up.
I was only referring to this thread - I haven't read any of your others.
My apologies for my doubts.
Metta
It shouldn't matter whether she has seen you (she probably has moved on if she knew since you were young then). You are the only one still stuck in your own memories.
Actually this is the point i want to confirm also that she moved on and i should apologise for any past torment she may have gotten; i am quite sure she know about the hole but not sure she know its me; that why i want to try to ask her. Any way not to cause hurt but achieve my odjective?
Not that I can see. It all happened more than 15 years ago. I think bringing it up now would cause more hurt, which would be very unnecessary 15 years later. I think the only real problems here are your guilt feelings, which appear out of proportion to the problem. That is why I have been strongly suggesting that you see a qualified mental health professional if Buddhist practice doesn't help you with the guilt feelings.
I think, karmically speaking, that it would cause a great deal of unnecessary hurt for you to bring it up again after 15 years. I think you need to rid yourself of this unnecessary guilt in the best way you can and just move on with your life. I myself have been going through a Major Depressive Episode during the past several months and have had similar feelings of guilt but not as badly, and I know my symptom pattern well enough to realize that it's really happening inside my nervous system now and has nothing to do what happened in the past.
But that's just me.
I hope that you are well on the way to recovery.
much metta
Everytime i think i have hurt my close ones, i just cannot help but need to say sorry now, i getting quite bad, i do not know if i can hold on for how long before i confess
You want to know if they're upset or upset with you, and this action you keep describing of confessing to them sounds like it is being driven by the same lust that caused you to poke a hole in the door and peep in the first place. Grow up! Its time to do whats right, not what feels good... based on what is best for you.
Obviously, you have to do what you do, but I simply hope you're now adult enough to so the right thing. Get your face away from the stupid door already. Sheesh!
With my foot down,
Matt
The suggestion for Bob to seek assistance from a mental health professional by numerous members has gone completely ignored... There really isn't any more any of us can do for him.