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thanks for your comments, I will be seeing a social worker tomorrow hopefully the person can help me, but I really want to thanks you all for all your help in any way
can I ask you if the harm I cause is my karma, will my karma seed be gone? Because I know my karma involve an element of bodily karma should I experience a bodily bad karma in return?
thanks for your comments, I will be seeing a social worker tomorrow hopefully the person can help me, but I really want to thanks you all for all your help in any way
can I ask you if the harm I cause is my karma, will my karma seed be gone? Because I know my karma involve an element of bodily karma should I experience a bodily bad karma in return?
I think it's clear now that this really is not about karma. This is just my opinion, but I think it's important to see that your feelings of guilt about this many years later over such a small thing are really just not necessary any more. I would think that there is no karma left from that act after all these years, and especially after all the remorse you've felt over it.
I hope it goes well with the social worker. Be well.
Guilty here, i have seen a social worker, i felt better for a while but the guilt and about karma still scares me
I think i guilt is so strong because, i have hurt somesome close, my auntie and sister, and my close people whom i do not confess to them, so most of the time i am alone with the feeling
As i go into karma in some websites, there are so many interpretion, some say karma cannot be purified, some say if you repent karma effect can be lessen, some of you say this is my karma,
some say if you steal, you will be rebirth to be poor, or you may get rob,
it seems the result is worst then the offense
How about age does it have a play in karma effect that i may have to suffer?
This is something you need to work out with a mental health professional. We are all relatively inexperienced with these things, and none of us are Buddhist masters so there is no way we can advise you about this. It was suggested earlier that you print this entire thread out to share it with a mental health professional, and I think you should do that.
If you can find a qualified Buddhist master to help you with this, that would be good. Otherwise I suggest that you work with this with a truly qualified mental health professional.
Your feelings of guilt are out of proportion to reality. As was suggested before, if you had a broken leg we would suggest that you see the appropriate health professional for that. If you have feelings of guilt that are out of proportion to reality, it would make sense that you would see the appropriate health professional for that.
If you go see these people and it does some good, you must be sure to let me know. I just discovered the site yesterday, but it looks like something that might help.
That is not to say that you should not continue seeing the social worker- I actually think you should see a psychiatrist, but that is up to you. My suggestion is only based on my own experience with similar feelings. The first psychiatrist I ever went to see, about 25 years ago, was a Nyingma Tibetan Buddhist and he prescribed medication. I have been on medication ever since.
Please understand that I myself will not discuss this in terms of karma any more at all, but I hope for the best for you and I want you to be well. This is not about karma. I feel very strongly that this is more about your mental health than it is about karma, and I am not an expert in mental health either.
Can't answer your question but would like to say I'm glad you've sought some help... I still think you could benefit from seeing an appropriate mental health professional... treating your "guilt" from multiple sources may provide for a faster healing for you...
Or are you just against the idea altogether as you have not really responded to anyones suggestions in that regard.
The Tibetan yogi Milarepa was a murderer. He brutally killed 35 people out of revenge, yet in the same lifetime, he got enlightenment. Karma, pshhh.
Actually, the story goes that before he encountered Marpa, Milarepa learned Black Magic and in revenge for an injustice to his mother by some relatives, went to seek revenge and then manifested the appearances of scorpions, spiders, snakes and lizards. The horses tethered outside the house freaked out at the sight and then bolted, knocking down the main pillar of the house. The house fell down on the relatives, killing them.
So in theory one could say that Milarepa didn't quite 'brutally kill 35 people' with his own hands.
I am asked by the tibetan lama to go for hynotherapy and the 35 confession to the buddhist, any views on this?
Is it effective?
Hi guilty,
As a hypnotherapist myself, I can honestly say to you that hypnotherapy may not necessarily provide the solution to your difficulties. It's certainly good for relaxation and for some problems - but it depends very much on the hypnotherapist and their motivation and methods. I certainly wouldn't suggest it as a long term solution for mental illness of any kind. If it was in addition to counselling sessions with a mental health professional together with a day by day plan of action, then I'd say yes.
The confession to the 35 Buddhas is considered to be a purification practice but quite frankly if one doesn't really understand it, there's not much point in mindless repetition for the sake of it, as it is rather long. Doubly pointless if its in Tibetan too and if you don't understand Tibetan. (Though some may disagree of course)
I am asked by the tibetan lama to go for hynotherapy and the 35 confession to the buddhist, any views on this?
Is it effective?
I would be interested to know which Tibetan lama it is, and how he feels about medication and regular therapy. I think the hypnotherapy and 35 confessions might give you temporary relief or partial relief, but having had similar issues with anxiety and depression, I would still strongly suggest that you seek appropriate professional help as well. I would be interested in knowing what the lama has to say about that.
If it's the lama I am thinking of in Singapore, he is thoroughly familiar with both traditional methods and modern methods, and I would guess that you would have the support of him and his community while you get true professional help.
I myself talked with Tibetan lamas and Tibetan doctors about my issues, and it helped some, but I have also been on medication and go to regular therapy too.
I think to tell her would add more to your feeling guilty. It would put the ball in their court. She could have great resentment towards you that might never go away regardless of the apology. I cant imagine what her husband might think. For all you know he may punch your face in.
I agree Jonathan, but as it appears to me, I'm not sure hello had the right idea still.
I've been following this thread for a bit, and I hope what I have to say now can be of some assistance.
guilty,
Let me start off by saying that your willingness to reach out and seek help is very admirable and courageous. However, I believe you are still confused on the concept of karma.
From what I have read, it appears you think of karma the same way one would think of sin. It seems you believe that bad actions get 'punished', in a sense, by this thing called karma, just as sins are punished by God.
What makes something bad? Is it because there is a law forbidding it? Would you go kill someone if murder wasn't illegal? Of course not. The same line of thought should follow for good things. The point is that good things are good and bad things are bad just because they are.
The reality is that there is no all-knowing karmic arbiter, no universal scorecard of good and bad, no cosmic being that punishes bad deeds. The idea of karma is that bad actions inexorably lead to bad reactions and good actions inexorably lead to good reactions, just because of the nature of good and bad. There's no rhyme or reason behind it. Karma is this idea that with bad comes bad, and with good comes good; action and reaction; cause and effect.
So 15 years ago, you committed a youthful indiscretion (action; cause). Ever since, you've been worrying about what that has done (reaction; effect). Would you not agree that all this worrying can be considered a negative side-effect or reaction from that original action?
Conversely, let's say you were to decide now to forgive yourself, move on and stop fretting over it (action; cause). Then, you would be able to stop worrying and causing yourself stress and suffering, and thus would be able to go on living a more positive life (reaction; effect). Heck, as an after-effect, you might even then feel inclined to take your family out to lunch or dinner as hello suggested because of your newfound outlook on life (another good reaction; effect).
The Buddhist path can help you see, without any doubt, which things are good, which things are bad, and act accordingly: not out of fear of receiving some sort of poor recourse (punishment) from some invisible karma being for doing something bad, but because your desire to do good and not bad empowers you to do only the good things and not the bad.
It is guilty here again, the childhood incident is better now after some confession and hynotherapy.
As i was completating on my mistakes done, i found that while i was growing up, during my early 20, i also committed mistake of the same nature but not knowing, like sometimes in crowded train, i find that it is okay to be near ladies and if the train moves, they will touch my body, i feel that in crowded area it is okay for me to be near people.
I also sometimes feel good to go into crowded train with some feeling that if it is crowded, i could accidently touch people. I do not go and touch them but some of the time i may go near to them as space is limited and hoping they will touch me.
So i feel so bad now that i have not learn my lessons , and those are of the same nature..
I guess i will have terrible bad karma..only noe do i realise, is it too late
I am only a nurse, but I have been a psychiatric nurse in my lifetime, and I have had similar personal issues with guilt, obsession, and anxiety. This is only my opinion and it does not qualify as a professional opinion, but it is based on years of personal and professional experience.
I believe you need to go to a psychiatrist and get this taken care of from that point of view. You seem to have guilt feelings that you experience obsessively which are completely out of proportion to actual facts. One component of depression is feelings of guilt, and another is obsession and excessive rumination, and that is what I see going on here.
Your "transactional" or "punishment-oriented, this-for-that" interpretation of karma is just not correct. That needs to be perfectly clear. It is just not correct. This is not how karma works, and this situation is not about karma. To repeat- this is not about karma. Based on my own experience I believe that you are subject to depression and it looks moderately severe to me.
Did you go to the Tsem Tulku group there in Singapore? What did they say?
I will no longer discuss this issue in terms of karma. If you choose to investigate whether or not this is a depressive episode, that is up to you. This is not about karma.
I have done all I can to try to help with this. You should investigate whether or not this is depression, but I myself will only observe this discussion and will no longer participate as long as this mistaken attempt to view this in terms of karma continues.
It sounds like you projecting too much importance on your actions. For a teenage boy to do that is normal. I would just forget about it. The event doesn't even exists anymore. The action is in the past, and I think you should leave your guilt in the past. What you did was fine.
You are not a bad person. To me, it sounds like you were lonely, shy, and seeking human contact. That is perfectly normal, and is something we all have. When you were younger, it is clear that you had some issues understanding boundaries, but you're not very unusual in that either. Many people have difficulty understanding and respecting boundaries. And, most people I know enjoy being touched by others, especially if we find them to be attractive.
Thank you all for this valuable discussion. I, too, have uncovered some rotten spots as my psychic onion is unpeeled layer by layer in meditation. After a day of reflection and consideration, I have certainty to just let it go. The victims are impossible to find, including my own historical form as a troubled teenager. My contrition has been daily metta practice.
The Buddha's message is to relieve suffering. Clinging to guilt and shame is a great suffering. Confession may be helpful, but if it sets a new course of even more suffering, then just let it go.
Consider the story of Angulimala, a serial murderer whose 1,000th victim was to have been the Buddha. Instead of killing the Buddha, he changed is ways and became a monk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala This article is well worth the time to read.
We all have "issues" in our past - some great, some small. It does no good to pick at the wounds and open them again and again. Let it go. Let it heal. Let the scar show you're simply being human.
Comments
I agree completely.
metta
thanks for your comments, I will be seeing a social worker tomorrow hopefully the person can help me, but I really want to thanks you all for all your help in any way
can I ask you if the harm I cause is my karma, will my karma seed be gone? Because I know my karma involve an element of bodily karma should I experience a bodily bad karma in return?
I think it's clear now that this really is not about karma. This is just my opinion, but I think it's important to see that your feelings of guilt about this many years later over such a small thing are really just not necessary any more. I would think that there is no karma left from that act after all these years, and especially after all the remorse you've felt over it.
I hope it goes well with the social worker. Be well.
(What country are you in again?)
Guilty here, i have seen a social worker, i felt better for a while but the guilt and about karma still scares me
I think i guilt is so strong because, i have hurt somesome close, my auntie and sister, and my close people whom i do not confess to them, so most of the time i am alone with the feeling
As i go into karma in some websites, there are so many interpretion, some say karma cannot be purified, some say if you repent karma effect can be lessen, some of you say this is my karma,
some say if you steal, you will be rebirth to be poor, or you may get rob,
it seems the result is worst then the offense
How about age does it have a play in karma effect that i may have to suffer?
How can i be sure?
If you can find a qualified Buddhist master to help you with this, that would be good. Otherwise I suggest that you work with this with a truly qualified mental health professional.
Your feelings of guilt are out of proportion to reality. As was suggested before, if you had a broken leg we would suggest that you see the appropriate health professional for that. If you have feelings of guilt that are out of proportion to reality, it would make sense that you would see the appropriate health professional for that.
http://tsemtulku.com/news/ladrang-news/tsem-ladrang-visits-the-singapore-cell-group/
If you go see these people and it does some good, you must be sure to let me know. I just discovered the site yesterday, but it looks like something that might help.
That is not to say that you should not continue seeing the social worker- I actually think you should see a psychiatrist, but that is up to you. My suggestion is only based on my own experience with similar feelings. The first psychiatrist I ever went to see, about 25 years ago, was a Nyingma Tibetan Buddhist and he prescribed medication. I have been on medication ever since.
Please understand that I myself will not discuss this in terms of karma any more at all, but I hope for the best for you and I want you to be well. This is not about karma. I feel very strongly that this is more about your mental health than it is about karma, and I am not an expert in mental health either.
I wish you well too
guilty here
I am asked by the tibetan lama to go for hynotherapy and the 35 confession to the buddhist, any views on this?
Is it effective?
Or are you just against the idea altogether as you have not really responded to anyones suggestions in that regard.
Actually, the story goes that before he encountered Marpa, Milarepa learned Black Magic and in revenge for an injustice to his mother by some relatives, went to seek revenge and then manifested the appearances of scorpions, spiders, snakes and lizards. The horses tethered outside the house freaked out at the sight and then bolted, knocking down the main pillar of the house. The house fell down on the relatives, killing them.
So in theory one could say that Milarepa didn't quite 'brutally kill 35 people' with his own hands.
.
Hi guilty,
As a hypnotherapist myself, I can honestly say to you that hypnotherapy may not necessarily provide the solution to your difficulties. It's certainly good for relaxation and for some problems - but it depends very much on the hypnotherapist and their motivation and methods. I certainly wouldn't suggest it as a long term solution for mental illness of any kind. If it was in addition to counselling sessions with a mental health professional together with a day by day plan of action, then I'd say yes.
The confession to the 35 Buddhas is considered to be a purification practice but quite frankly if one doesn't really understand it, there's not much point in mindless repetition for the sake of it, as it is rather long. Doubly pointless if its in Tibetan too and if you don't understand Tibetan. (Though some may disagree of course)
.
I would be interested to know which Tibetan lama it is, and how he feels about medication and regular therapy. I think the hypnotherapy and 35 confessions might give you temporary relief or partial relief, but having had similar issues with anxiety and depression, I would still strongly suggest that you seek appropriate professional help as well. I would be interested in knowing what the lama has to say about that.
If it's the lama I am thinking of in Singapore, he is thoroughly familiar with both traditional methods and modern methods, and I would guess that you would have the support of him and his community while you get true professional help.
I myself talked with Tibetan lamas and Tibetan doctors about my issues, and it helped some, but I have also been on medication and go to regular therapy too.
Have you considered doing something nice for your aunt, perhaps taking her out for lunch, doing her a favour or make something for her?
Perhaps by doing something positive for her may negate some of the negative karma you think you have accumulated.
peace.
I like this response...
I've been following this thread for a bit, and I hope what I have to say now can be of some assistance.
guilty,
Let me start off by saying that your willingness to reach out and seek help is very admirable and courageous. However, I believe you are still confused on the concept of karma.
From what I have read, it appears you think of karma the same way one would think of sin. It seems you believe that bad actions get 'punished', in a sense, by this thing called karma, just as sins are punished by God.
What makes something bad? Is it because there is a law forbidding it? Would you go kill someone if murder wasn't illegal? Of course not. The same line of thought should follow for good things. The point is that good things are good and bad things are bad just because they are.
The reality is that there is no all-knowing karmic arbiter, no universal scorecard of good and bad, no cosmic being that punishes bad deeds. The idea of karma is that bad actions inexorably lead to bad reactions and good actions inexorably lead to good reactions, just because of the nature of good and bad. There's no rhyme or reason behind it. Karma is this idea that with bad comes bad, and with good comes good; action and reaction; cause and effect.
So 15 years ago, you committed a youthful indiscretion (action; cause). Ever since, you've been worrying about what that has done (reaction; effect). Would you not agree that all this worrying can be considered a negative side-effect or reaction from that original action?
Conversely, let's say you were to decide now to forgive yourself, move on and stop fretting over it (action; cause). Then, you would be able to stop worrying and causing yourself stress and suffering, and thus would be able to go on living a more positive life (reaction; effect). Heck, as an after-effect, you might even then feel inclined to take your family out to lunch or dinner as hello suggested because of your newfound outlook on life (another good reaction; effect).
The Buddhist path can help you see, without any doubt, which things are good, which things are bad, and act accordingly: not out of fear of receiving some sort of poor recourse (punishment) from some invisible karma being for doing something bad, but because your desire to do good and not bad empowers you to do only the good things and not the bad.
BB
It is guilty here again, the childhood incident is better now after some confession and hynotherapy.
As i was completating on my mistakes done, i found that while i was growing up, during my early 20, i also committed mistake of the same nature but not knowing, like sometimes in crowded train, i find that it is okay to be near ladies and if the train moves, they will touch my body, i feel that in crowded area it is okay for me to be near people.
I also sometimes feel good to go into crowded train with some feeling that if it is crowded, i could accidently touch people. I do not go and touch them but some of the time i may go near to them as space is limited and hoping they will touch me.
So i feel so bad now that i have not learn my lessons , and those are of the same nature..
I guess i will have terrible bad karma..only noe do i realise, is it too late
I believe you need to go to a psychiatrist and get this taken care of from that point of view. You seem to have guilt feelings that you experience obsessively which are completely out of proportion to actual facts. One component of depression is feelings of guilt, and another is obsession and excessive rumination, and that is what I see going on here.
Your "transactional" or "punishment-oriented, this-for-that" interpretation of karma is just not correct. That needs to be perfectly clear. It is just not correct. This is not how karma works, and this situation is not about karma. To repeat- this is not about karma. Based on my own experience I believe that you are subject to depression and it looks moderately severe to me.
Did you go to the Tsem Tulku group there in Singapore? What did they say?
I will no longer discuss this issue in terms of karma. If you choose to investigate whether or not this is a depressive episode, that is up to you. This is not about karma.
I have done all I can to try to help with this. You should investigate whether or not this is depression, but I myself will only observe this discussion and will no longer participate as long as this mistaken attempt to view this in terms of karma continues.
I hope you get well. This is not about karma.
You are not a bad person. To me, it sounds like you were lonely, shy, and seeking human contact. That is perfectly normal, and is something we all have. When you were younger, it is clear that you had some issues understanding boundaries, but you're not very unusual in that either. Many people have difficulty understanding and respecting boundaries. And, most people I know enjoy being touched by others, especially if we find them to be attractive.
I hope you feel better.
With warmth,
Matt
The Buddha's message is to relieve suffering. Clinging to guilt and shame is a great suffering. Confession may be helpful, but if it sets a new course of even more suffering, then just let it go.
Consider the story of Angulimala, a serial murderer whose 1,000th victim was to have been the Buddha. Instead of killing the Buddha, he changed is ways and became a monk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala This article is well worth the time to read.
We all have "issues" in our past - some great, some small. It does no good to pick at the wounds and open them again and again. Let it go. Let it heal. Let the scar show you're simply being human.
This dharma talk is worth listening to. It will speak to your issue. (And mine...)
compassion_and_meeting_ourselves.mp3