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The real Dalai lama?
Fenix
Veteran
Is this true?
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I was living in the thought that tibet was this magical country where happiness dwelled not so long ago, but it has been a tyranny of "Holy" men.
If someone finds buddhism helpful, like I have found myself than thats great. Only i have started to question my benefits including its effects
Why would a Buddha be a political figure?
The buddha of compassion is it not so? if not, how is Dalai lama life time after life time (at least 13) times not resulted in enlightenment and what chance would any one else have if so
Edit: Sorry, wrote this a bit late.
Fenix, the Dalai Lama is the Dalai Lama (A TIBETAN leader), he is not a Buddha.
Well, I highly doubt that it's so in any literal sense. It's pretty clear how such a myth could evolve from the political imperatives of the position. But your question is still not well-formed. Depends what you mean by a Buddha.
The awakened one
Even so, Buddha or not. Someone with a lot of compassion, why would they do such things
Unfortunatly yes.:(
This is what happens when politics infiltrates religion bad things happen. Make no mistake Tibet was never a shangri-la and the Dalai lama is as much a politician as his is a spiritual leader, When you hold absolute power in this sense there is no one to check your authority and can result in some appauling abuses, The 5th Dalai lama for example used his power and influence to crush the Jonang school of Buddhism and as resulting political deals unfolded there where certainly muderers and worse occurences that have happened throughout the Dalai lama lineage.
Of course dont let the actions of a few individuals tarnish the Buddhadharma for the whole part it is good that is when it is practised. If you look back through Tibetan histroy you can see some very inspiring stories of enlightened Beings and how they demonstrate their pure morale discipline and helped people accomplish profound paths. For the most part as well if you check these beings will have been practising renunciation so will not have involved their self with such political turmoil that leads deeper into samsara.
Why is he such a recognized teacher?
Because after the chinese Invasion the Dalai lama became the poster man for the fight against communism and thus naturally america at the time of Mcarthyism took great Interest in using the Dalai lama to their own ends in the battle against communism funding him and helping provide guerila training for Tibetans to hopefully start up a resistance movement within Tibet, Naturally Buddhism carries a very logical and practical way of dealing with problems in our lives The Dalai lama had some of the foremost tutors of the Gelug Lineage His Holiness Trijang and Ling Rinpoche Junior and senior tutors respectively anyone whom having learned from them would be naturally adapt at teaching Dharma, So when Buddhism was relatively young In the west the Dalai lama was really the first major Buddhist teacher to get huge publicity because of the connections he made through his exile and thus plenty of media attention wherever he went.
There are few things they did not mention-
-the Dalai Lama before the current one(the 13th) made some reforms in Tibet; He was slowly outlawing things like mutilation for criminal punishment and the like. That Lama realized that Tibet needed to start heading into the modern world and made steps to start the process. The current Dalai Lama(the 14th) might have continued the policy if the PRC had not invaded.
-The current Dalai Lama gave up power to a Parliment of sorts made up of Tibetian leaders who are not monks. I think his idea was to start the process of the Buddhist leaders to not be the government anymore. If anything, history has shown that ANY faith that takes over leadership/government corrupts..Buddhism included.(read up on what the Zen monks who pretty much took over power during the Japanese Fedual period..they. did not exactly follow Gautama's teachings very much)
-Also, the curret Dalai Lama has said that his position may not be neccessary anymore. He is going to let the people of Tibet decide..if they feel that the DL is no longer needed, he is not going to reincarnate.
Buddhism in itself is a good thing as it can truly be positive in one's life. We just need to always keep in mind what Gautama taught and other warnings such as not following blindly. Let these past issues with some of these negative past events serve as warning about what happens when anyone seeks power, control, luxury, etc..they lose the Buddha's path.
Would you recommend on listening to his teachings?
Because after the chinese Invasion the Dalai lama became the poster man for the fight against communism and thus naturally america at the time of Mcarthyism took great Interest in using the Dalai lama to their own ends in the battle against communism funding him and helping provide guerila training for Tibetans to hopefully start up a resistance movement within Tibet, Naturally Buddhism carries a very logical and practical way of dealing with problems in our lives The Dalai lama had some of the foremost tutors of the Gelug Lineage His Holiness Trijang and Ling Rinpoche Junior and senior tutors respectively anyone whom having learned from them would be naturally adapt at teaching Dharma, So when Buddhism was relatively young In the west the Dalai lama was really the first major Buddhist teacher to get huge publicity because of the connections he made through his exile and thus plenty of media attention wherever he went.
His Teachings are basically derived from his own Tutors whom I have sincerest faith In.
Ive never read any teachings by the Dalai lama, so I cant reconmend or Not reconmend them.
But all people and movements are driven by imperatives which do not align with your spiritual development, so examine their teachings and demands with a critical eye. You are ultimately responsible for what you believe and do, and you can't abdicate that responsibility without becoming a fool and/or a slave.
boundless Compassion. This would be Avalokitesvara, or Chenrezig.
But Tibetan Buddhism is full of "Buddhas" which represent specific qualities, mercies, virtues and characteristics.
These are the 'Buddhas' people aspire to be like. So in other words, they are the finest examples of what a person should strive to be.
But they are not omnipotent, they are not 'Eternal' and they are not (to many) even real.
They are personifications, or representations.
So Chenrezig is merely a manifestation of a specific quality.
But The Dalai lama - as so-said human personification - is not Chenrezig, and is not a Buddha.
he himself constantly refers to himself as a 'simple monk'.
Do not consider him either A Buddha, or THE Buddha.
he is neither.
But much of what he teaches is sound.
However, as with all and everything you come across - evaluate it and scrutinise it.
And also Avalokitesvara is not a Buddha, but a bodhisattva.
Fenix, I think that it would be wise to not make any harsh conclusions until you have a deeper understanding of things.
All human enterprises will be flawed and I think it is extremely important to remember that Tibetan Buddhism is not all there is of Buddhism, but is just one of three traditions along with Mahayana (notably Zen and Pure Land) and Theravada.
Much of Penn and Teller's video is spin, and ascribing personal responsibility to HHDL for things he may have had little or no involvment in himself.
If we believe he is the reincarnation of previous Dalai Lamas, then perhaps we have to hold him a bit more responsible, but before we get too carried away with moral judgments, we would do well to remember that for the vast majority of human history, slavery for example, was common and not thought to be unjust.
We are all products of our time and environment no matter how noble we might think we are. In the future there will be things we think are ok that will be thought of as immoral
I suspect homophobia being one....but if the pendulum swings the other way, future generations might feel we were terribly loose morally.
Penn and Teller also attach their own interpretation as to why certain things were done and so on. For example:
If Tibet were returned to the Dalai Lama tomorrow, would it instantly revert to a feudal society with torture?
Would it eliminate the improvements in education and health care?
Were those developments simply due to the chinese invasion or might Tibet have modernized anyway as the world around it does?
Basically P & T are making the assumption that the actions of pre-invasion Tibet reflect the morality and will of the present day DL, and I personally think that is to say the least, unlikely.
The Dharma isn't about politics, and even if you decide HHDL is not all that enlightened, it doesn't make the truths of the Dharma un-true. At worst it simply would suggest HHDL, especially in his earlier incarnations wasn't able to be as compassionate as one might think a highly enlightened person aught.
It is certainly not enough to throw out an entire religion, of which the DL represents a relatively small portion. It is just that Tibetan Buddhism has become very very trendy in the west, and since HHDL is such a highly visible person, many people these days seem to think he represents all Buddhists.
I am a Pure Land Buddhist, and honestly the Tibetan path is the path I personally am least drawn to among Buddhist paths, however I very much like the DL and the message of compassion he is bringing to the world, regardless of if it is consistant with Tibetan political practices of the past.
skillful means sometimes wears out. and we have a disaster. the da lai lama speaks for himself.
Personally, I'm a fan of HHDL, in spite of whatever others say. But I do think he could be doing more to introduce reforms and accountability. But we must remember that he only has influence over one sect; there are limits to what he can achieve. And he's made significant strides in democratizing the gov't, as noted above.
What a dunce....!
Yes, he did get caught up in the conflict between capitalism and comunism, and so did many people. I think that it is incorrect to suggest that this has been the impetus that has made him known world wide. He attracts attention because he is worthy of respect. He represents a role model that is seldom found in this world.
He was rightfully awarded the nobel peace prize and is highly regarded by countless of reliable people and institutions. Hundreds of forward thinking universities have awarded honorary degrees and other recognitions. Many governments have awarded him many honors and recognitions. Politicians from all camps have spoken out in support of His Holiness, even at the expense of political damages. These people know more about the Dalai Lama than I do, and I know more about him than Penn and Teller do.
Read the Dalai Lama's books and decide for yourself. You will not find a better author of books on Buddhism, or secular ethics.
Tibetan Buddhism is not as different from other traditions as is often suggested in this forum. Tibetan Buddhism is distinctive for it's colorful culture, cultural popularity, and political chaos that engulfs the people of Tibet. It is not correct to suggest that it is either more political or controversial than other traditions. I understand why people think that, but the truth is that any tradition has similar politics and controversies, past and current. With recognition comes scrutiny and if we look close enough, we will see that Tibetans are people and the land of Tibet is an occupied nation, and never was perfect.
As for the Dalai Lama, I think he is a Buddha, I know he is a Boddhisatva
And one good point they make is, people tend to turn their heros into gods. We always have. Whether it's the Dalai Lama or Mother Theresa or Martin Luther King, they were and are only people. Being human, they have egos and biases and the usual faults we all have. Whether Enlightenment or Sainthood, the followers always place these people in some special catagory of perfection.
Through an accident of geopolitical game playing, the Dalai Lama became the face of Buddhism for most in the Western world. As both a monk and the political leader in exile, people mistakenly believe he's like the Pope, he's the Spiritual leader of Buddhists everywhere, instead of just the spiritual leader of the Tibetan Buddhists. People need to be educated as to this when the subject is brought up.
Friend Disregard the Dalai lama as an example if you have problems with him, There are many examples of great masters who accomplish much even today it is very possible, Buddha said it is far more likely for human beings to accomplish enlightenment then it is for animals to attain a precious human rebirth.
This is why political Buddhism is a bad thing, Samsara is full of politics and no political actions will please everyone, It is a thing to avoid as a renunciate especially when wearing robes you represent the Dharma therefore avoid the 8 worldly concerns.
What they say is probably factually true, but it is slanted. Everybody's life is ambiguous and full of mistakes.
As for someone being specially reincarnated and practicing through multiple lives, that also is a viewpoint heavily dependent on your particular school of Buddhism. It sounds like you should check out something more in the line of one of the Zen or Pure Land schools of Buddhism.
In its strange political and social circumstances and encroaching religious beliefs from outside Tibet required a bodhisattva who like a national role model had lively interaction with its people and united in peace warring kingdoms and divided tribes, besides leading to the path of personal liberation. Obviously, such wider objectives could be accomplished only by someone who synthesised in him with spiritualism some kind of political authority or vision. The Tibetan mind was thus naturally inclined to the bodhisattva-cult. Consequently, instead of placing its preference on one seeking his own liberation, Tibet had a preference for him who chose its postponement in order to lead the land to peace, unity and harmony.
The proper hierarchical order acclaims to have so far fourteen Dalai Lamas, the present one being the Fourteenth. However, the tradition acclaims a far larger number. As acclaimed, even the First was not really the first. The Tibetan tradition relates a succession of sixty re-births previous to the Fourteenth. The First Dalai Lama Gendun Drubpa had forty-six reincarnations before him, thirty-six as those of Lama Drom Tonpa, who he reincarnated, and ten, his own as various kings, though these reincarnations are not recognised as those of the Dalai Lama but of the being who became the Dalai Lama. Thus, the First Dalai Lama had forty-six prior reincarnations, and the present Dalai Lama being
sixtieth. Confused yet? Penn and Teller are entertainers - using bits of truth and loads of bullshit to amuse and to make money - for themselves - nothing else. If HHDL is not your cup of tea - he understands and wishes you well - anyway.....
:rolleyes:
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The proper hierarchical order acclaims to have so far fourteen Dalai Lamas, the present one being the Fourteenth. However, the tradition acclaims a far larger number. As acclaimed, even the First was not really the first. The Tibetan tradition relates a succession of sixty re-births previous to the Fourteenth. The First Dalai Lama Gendun Drubpa had forty-six reincarnations before him, thirty-six as those of Lama Drom Tonpa, who he reincarnated, and ten, his own as various kings, though these reincarnations are not recognised as those of the Dalai Lama but of the being who became the Dalai Lama. Thus, the First Dalai Lama had forty-six prior reincarnations, and the present Dalai Lama being
sixtieth. Confused yet? Penn and Teller are entertainers - using bits of truth and loads of bullshit to amuse and to make money - for themselves - nothing else. If HHDL is not your cup of tea - he understands and wishes you well - anyway.....
I thought the highest institutions (how do you define "institutions"?) were the Dalai Lama, the Panchen Lama, and, at the moment due to an unusual political situation, 3rd in line seems to be the Karmapa.
The Mongols created the position of Dalai Lama, it didn't somehow evolve out of the Tibean people's turn away from warfare and toward Buddhism. There was a thread recently on the institution of the Dalai Lama and its history that readers could check.
Study and meditation have other benefits, of course, and HHDL's extraordinary trained memory, for example, is a result of his education but is not necessary for the ending of dukkha
As for the Nobel C'tee reviewing his personal history, here's the deal with the Peace Prize criteria:
There's a rule that no one who has used violence in any way, or even advocated armed struggle, can win. There are notable exceptions to this, the most spectacular of which is Prize winner Henry Kissinger, who ordered the bombing of Cambodia, and presided over the Vietnam War. Maybe they gave him the prize for ending the war, but that's pretty pathetic. Anyway, I'm sure the Nobel C'tee was aware of HHDL's participation in the CIA guerrilla war against China (his office acknowledges his cooperation w/the CIA), but probably awarded him the prize on the merits of his subsequent activities. Other notable exceptions to the "no violence" rule are Nelson Mandela and Rigoberta Menchu who, though she didn't participate in armed resistance to the racist and genocidal Guatemalan regime, did advocate armed struggle, also a no-no. But she was nominated and won the prize in 1992, the beginning of the UN Year of Indigenous People, and the c'tee wanted an Indigenous person to win. Likewise Mandela; he won in 1993, the beginning of the UN Decade on Indigenous People. The Peace Prize C'tee rules have a certain amt. of flexibility. And Mandela won together with DeClerk, who was president of a horribly violent regime in S. Africa. But they won together for bringing about the end of that regime.
there's no authority higher than the dharma.
However, it is extremely doubtful that the Communists will maintain their grip on the country with the continuing economic liberalization. As the middle class grows, so will democratic rights and freedoms. Moreover, Tibetan Buddhism is the fastest growing religion on the mainland and has always had a strong following in HK and Taiwan. The long term prognosis is for either a gradual loosening of control or if the government loses control of the economic levers in either runaway inflation or a deep recession-- a catastrophic overthrow of the old regime.
China's pretensions on the Western borderlands go back thousands of years; now that they have a strong grip on them, they're not going to let go. And Taiwan's policy toward Tibet and the Gov't-in-Exile has been very inconsistent and ultimately self-serving, I think. BTW, there was an interesting article in a recent New Yorker about the principle architect of China's economic "miracle"; he's from Taiwan! Incredibly,he defected to the Mainland! Chinese are Chinese; it doesn't matter which side of the Taiwan Strait they're on. They still view Tibet as part of China.
So many Chinese students supposedly interested in democratization are still rabid on the subject of Tibet and Xinjiang. Although there were some hopeful signs from Han bloggers during the 2008 crisis.
So what does this mean for HHDL's efforts to negotiate with the Chinese? Apparently he's wasting his time?
destruction by water? // tsunami, hurricane, "cold waves", change of earth-water equilibrium
or none of the above?
% using karmic modifier