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(former) monks I need your help
What drove you to be a monk? Seriously I need to know, I can't find joy in the material world anymore. This is scary I don't want to but I have to. I have no other place to ask right now. There are no monastries in my country.
I know there is somebody called John Former Monk or something on this site I hope he has something to say on this.
I know there is somebody called John Former Monk or something on this site I hope he has something to say on this.
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If you can’t find joy in civil society, there’s little hope you will be able to find it in a monastic society.
Monastic society is the same thing but without the distractions.
If you want to find joy, look for it in your heart.
It’s the only place where it can be found.
Dhamma Dhatu might be a good person to speak with, if you could PM him or he happens to see this thread.
And don't quote me on this, but I think "former monk John" is not a former Buddhist monk, but of another religion.
There are lots of great - current - monks on this site. I'm sure you'll get more good feedback from them.
Yes, we all set out with hope and belief and perhaps a dose of whining. But then we settle down and do the work that is necessary to making peace with what cannot be escaped. Monks, lay people, stock brokers, bandits ... same stuff, different book cover.
Best wishes.
IMHO.
And ultimately, why you want it in the first place.
Oh heifer-poo.
What's so different about us, that as laypeople, we don't have to? And, at the risk of being pushy - what makes you so special?
Oh....really ?? I would say, with the greatest of respect to him, that unfortunately, his experience was really not sufficiently long to warrant being a useful yardstick to go by. His stint as a Monk was brief and a little disjointed, to say the least.
However, it would depend on which tradition you were considering, because if perchance you were thinking of Theravada, I could point you in the right direction. Furthermore, we have a very down-to-earth and experienced Tibetan Buddhist Monk on here, too.
If your dissatisfaction is sufficient, you will simply buy a one-way ticket to where you can find a monastery.
Kind regards
DD
Sure, many peoople 'drop out', into sex, drugs, hippydom, environmental idealism, etc.
There is no need to stay in society. It is best to leave society.
:om:
I undertand that there is a test period, so i dont see any problem, even in some cases where u are just running out of something.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_Hermitage
Good luck
Many people robe & disrobe. The spiritual life is not for them. Stephen Schettini and Stephen Batchelor are such examples.
It is ironic how such people who are caught up in making money from Dhamma must keep advertising they are "ex-Buddhist monks", as though their minds gained some realisation when they were monks.
:eek2:
We should take responsibility for our own emotions, and work on them.
We should GIVE joy to the monastery, not ASK it.
And entering a monastery is not leaving society; it is entering another form of society.
The bottom line is:
There’s one place only where we can attain freedom; and it’s right where we are.
(Who said spouse and children were a required part of the householder package? This has been discussed on other threads. You're making a lot of assumptions about householders and society; maybe that's part of the problem. It's all in one's view. It's all in the mind, and the heart.)
Your question is unrelated to the OP.
The OP states: "I can't find joy in the material world anymore".
Every human being must have a source of joy, a refuge of happiness.
When one's refuge collapses, it is scary.
It is the same as taking taking a healthy body for granted. If suddenly, the doctor says you have three months to live due to cancer, it is scary.
It is the same as when your partner suddenly states: "I do not love you anymore, I am leaving you today". It is scary.
When the world ceases to offer you happiness, it is scary, because one basis for refuge disintegrates.
:hair:
Someone posts: "I need to fly from the nest" and the mother hens cry out: "No, no!"
If one is truely disenchanted with the world, one will leave it. No advice can help either way.
Society will always be there to return to, if required.
Bye.
Anyway the point of Buddhism is to liberate ourselves, so we can help others then. This is what the Monks are working on.
Basically imagine an army of millions of enlighten beings, stream enterers, once returners, non returners etc...
In monasteries you’ll find human beings. They are just like the rest of us, like our family, our colleagues and our friends. Forget about stream enterers and so on. They are all just human.
Attaining freedom is not easier in a monastery; it is never easier in any place; it can only be practiced where we are.
The army of enlightened beings is you.
No one out there is going to do it for you.
All these can be put in words fairly easily wouldn't you say so?
I second everything zenff has said on this thread.
Please concentrate on what the OP is putting forward.
if you feel the need to enter into personal, off-topic and frankly unrelated soap-boxing and pointless pontificating - do it either in a thread you've specifically created for that very purpose (to your heart's content) or go to PMs.
Thanks.
I'd be interested to hear what Sabre thinks, after all these suggestions...
P.S. Journey--it /is/ exciting when we read our own thoughts in someone else's book, isn't it? Cool that you and Thich Nhat Hanh are in sync.
Buddhism is 3 practices (Morality, concentration and vipassana) that allow someone to work hard and achieve liberation from the human condition.
Enlightenment is the goal; not merely maintaining a peaceful state of mind during the day Not that there is anything wrong with that
Your human condition alone is all that is required to be able to practice and be "challenged".
And if that wasn't enough, if you are anywhere near the spectrum of being a "normal" person, you have more than enough karma accumulated to work with. No need for extra "stuff"
The monastery is a place to develop SAMADHI BLISS :om:
Most Buddhist laypeople still find happiness in a dependent way.
For most Buddhist laypeople, Buddhism is a way to improve their outlook on life & enhance their relationships.
For most Buddhist laypeople, Buddhism is a way to cultivate the happiness of friendship.
But none of these things are SAMADHI BLISS :om:
Samadhi bliss is independent happiness.
To cultivate samadhi bliss, the monastery is the best place.
:om:
Dhamma Dhatu already answered most of the replies for me, so I won't go into individual replies here.
Let me explain it a bit furter.
Yesterday "I nailed it" or maybe better, "it got nailed". The whole day was just a string of single moments. Everything looked so beautiful, sounded so nice and everybody was so kind. I had strokes of deep insight that flew through my body, made me cry of happiness.
I saw karma, I saw free choice (you choose to suffer or to be free every moment of your life..) And I saw my attachments to things and people clearly. So there were also some very hard moments. In my heart I let go of my possessions, of my parents (not fully) seeing them as equal to everybody else. It took a lot of courage, but I realised I couldn't work in this society anymore, that the only thing I could do was quit university, find a way to pay my depts and ordain somewhere as quickly as possible.
But it was hard to fall asleep. My body was broken because of all the crying but I couldn't find a way to get that mindfulness to diminish. But somehow I did (after being very sickly for a while) and now, the next day my mindfulness isn't that strong anymore. And I am scared. I don't want to meditate anymore. I choose to suffer. The only thing that could get me meditating again is my curiosity on how much deeper it can get, because I also noticed there were still so much things to let go. But it will be very, very hard and I don't know if I want to do that. I saw the path and I only needed to walk it. What Ajahn Chah says is true. There is no eightfold path, there is just one path and it is letting go. And you choose to let go or you choose to attach.
I think it's nature's call to do this. With all respect to everybody, but I guess Dhamma and patbb are the only ones who really understands this. Or maybe I missed someone who also does.
Anyway,
Forget about traditions, they are unimportant. I think about the Thich Nhat Hahn tradition simply because it is the closest and because it is becoming very big here in Europe. And the only way we can really change the world is uniting as much people as possible.
But it is scary. You might not understand. But just keep challenging yourself and question why you meditation isn't getting any deeper and you will also get those beautiful blissful insights.
Please anybody, if you have any more thoughts feel free to share them because I feel lonely.
Love,
Sabre
You said it yourself - let go.
You come across as someone who has very deep emotions - I too have cried like you have in the past.
I also understand fully what you are experiencing by not being able to meditate - just remember that the best is yet to come - you are like Alice falling down the rabbit hole.
Take it easy - don't rush it - and perhaps before you go to the monastery - you should answer yourself this - why do you want to do that?
Establish your intent - rather than just the reasons brought about by your circumstances.
Remember - there is nothing to achieve - rather develop your potential.
Thank you a lot for your response.
It's not the fact that I can't meditate. I know I'm fully able to get very calm and deep. I just don't dare to, because I also know then I need to let go of so many things...
There is a choice but I'm not courageous enough yet to take it. That's why I feel lonely. You feel lonely if you don't believe in yourself, not when there is nobody else around. And each response can get a bit more courage inside me. So thanks.
I see now the way to enlightenment. It is not just an easy and only blissful way as I thought before. In fact, munks must be the most courageous people that exist. It's not an escape from society. In fact, society pushes you away.
And being a munk is not my goal. Munks are maybe courageous, but are just people. It's just that it's the only way I see to be without posessions. You can't live in this society without money and I see the emptiness of money.
But it is scary because I could have one of the highest technical careers ahead of me with my university that I haven't and probably can't finish. I need to let go of the idea that I will become a dr ir whatever. It's unimportant anyway what your title or job is.
Love,
Sabre
Incidentally since samadhi bliss (which is I take it unconditional refuge in the mind's clarity) can occur anywhere there is just less obstacles in monastery. Definitively unconditional confidence does not rely on a monastery otherwise that would be a condition! Another way I could understand samadhi is renunciation and that can also occur outside of a monastery. Its a gradual process so we all have it to some degree. Its not like switching a light on. If something is unconditional it is neither created nor destroyed! But it is obscured. We just need to clear obscurations which are condtional and impermanent its rather confusing paradox in some ways that I don't understand. So how much is a householder's day devoted to this clearing? Well not a whole lot for me but at the same time 'designated studies' aren't the only time to practice dharma. At the same time traditionally hearing, contemplation, and meditation are the way to learn.
If I understand correctly you feel you have to choose between finishing your education and pursuing Enlightenment.
The reason is, you experienced deep meditation; a period of super sensitivity and strong emotions.
The point of meditation however is not to go deeper and deeper until you are completely stuck in (blissful) feelings! IMHO!
When the bell rings, you get up from your meditation mat and you do what needs to be done.
That too is letting go! That too is practice.
So find a way to integrate the bliss of meditation with ordinary life.
(Enlightened) life can not be spent on a sitting mat. The challenge is bigger.
Meditate your regular schedule and finish your education.
That’s of course just my way of looking at your situation.:)
Yes, meditation is not the goal, it is only a tool to get the mind sharper. But you probably know the 8-fold path can not be walked 1 thing at a time. You need to develop all 8 parts together. Sometimes one thing gets in the way of another. I don't even know all the parts, because I was never interrested in that.
But I know one part is meditation and one part is what you do in your life (job, career etc). Now my life is getting in the way of my meditation instead of the other way around, so I need to let go of it.
Yes, I need to, to find peace. Now I only need to figure out where I'm going and how I'll get there (financially etc.), but that is easy because I've never been so motivated.
The only problem might me my father's disagreement, my mother already says it's up to me.
Peace at last
And great that you question my decision. Keep questioning.
Thanks all.
I'll post in this thread more often.
So yeah.. It's quite hard to do a study of which you see the emptiness..
....feel that freedom and then decide what to do..swim to that island..
I have children, but my youngest is autistic, and caring for him is hard work.
I have a partner I love very much, but she struggles with her mental health sometimes and again, I end up caring for her too.
When I first encountered Buddhism I imagined that all of these things were obstacles to my practice. I almost resented the fact that I had this family and responsibilities because it was too much.
And when my illness got worse so that I couldn't even sit on my stool to meditate and was constantly having to move to release painful spasms, I was despairing.
But then I encountered Buddhists, through meeting people and through books by people like Thich Naht Hahn and HH Dalai Lama, and I realised that, as my lama said to me "You need to make your life your practice".
I didn't understand this at first. But now I do. It is perhaps the hardest thing in the world to turn the life you have now, into your practice. We talk a lot about letting go of attachments and clinging - but perhaps we don't talk enough about also letting go of aversion.
It seems to me you are developing quite an aversion to your current life. You feel your parents are holding you back, that your studies are irrelevant etc. But actually that very aversion is the sign that for now, here is where you begin. You want to learn mindfulness? Studying is a brilliant opportunity to learn mindfulness, especially if its boring or unstimulating to you.
Meditate on your aversion to studying - is it because it it meaningless or is it because applying yourself is just too hard? (I don't know how you would answer that question, but don't rush to answer it). I'm a student too - I treat myself by reading Buddhist books after I've "earned" it by reading my university stuff. It's much more pleasant reading a dharma book than international economics any day!
Are you aware that being well qualified and having useful skills is perhaps as important to a well run monastery as being good at meditating? I was laughing at a story I heard once of a Westerner who turned up at a Tibetan monastery, thinking his dedication to meditation meant he was going to be welcomed with open arms. He was, but not for the reasons he expected - turned out he'd worked on a dairy farm in UK and knew about cows, so they set him to looking after and milking the yaks!
Perhaps one day you can be a monk. In the meantime, don't waste time concerning yourself with worrying about things you can't change - make your current life your practice.
Namaste.
I love studying and I love my parents. That's not the problem.
But I guess my lay life is not finished yet, indeed.
I have learned a lot of Buddhism but now need some time away from it all just to let it settle and find a way to fit it into my own life.
Buddhism doesn't 'fit' into your life.
Buddhism IS life.
That's what the 8Fold Path is for, isn't it?
silly....