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Why Do I Never Learn?
ThailandTom
Veteran
This has began to become apparent to me more so recently and subsequently make me question certain things.
Going back through my teens, I was known as somebody who never learned from their mistakes that well, basically blindly ignorant.
I have been practicing or learning shall I say, the dharma now for more than 2 years and don't get me wrong, it has helped for some aspects of my life. One example accepting things for how they are, that some things are out of our control so why fight and use energy to try and change them.
I KNOW quite a lot of the teachings in depth, such as impermanence, living in the present moment, understanding how attachments affect our lives, compassion and loving kindness.
Sometimes people ask me for advice with their problems and I do not lecture them, but speak wisely, and as my own sister said not too long ago, 'you appear a lot more wiser these days tom' as she asked for some help with something.
My problem is, I have all of this understanding, but I fail to put it into practice. I appear to have this underlying torrent of self destruction and ignorance, well not ignorance because I am not fully ignorant to the dharma and the causations of suffering, but I keep acting as an ignorant being. I drink, I relapsed on my valium taper, I get attached to the past and worry of next week blablabla. However, I have lost attachments to material things and am a little more laid back towards certain aspects of life, but this knowledge, this understanding is useless if i is only within my mind and not used.
Can anybody guide me or offer advice on how to put into practice what I know and how to learn more of what is out there. To understand the world for how it is and be at peace with everything. I was thinking of the 4 noble truths, I have a book by the Dalai Lama which is detail souly on this subject. I don't know, any advice is appreciated, thanks
Tom
Going back through my teens, I was known as somebody who never learned from their mistakes that well, basically blindly ignorant.
I have been practicing or learning shall I say, the dharma now for more than 2 years and don't get me wrong, it has helped for some aspects of my life. One example accepting things for how they are, that some things are out of our control so why fight and use energy to try and change them.
I KNOW quite a lot of the teachings in depth, such as impermanence, living in the present moment, understanding how attachments affect our lives, compassion and loving kindness.
Sometimes people ask me for advice with their problems and I do not lecture them, but speak wisely, and as my own sister said not too long ago, 'you appear a lot more wiser these days tom' as she asked for some help with something.
My problem is, I have all of this understanding, but I fail to put it into practice. I appear to have this underlying torrent of self destruction and ignorance, well not ignorance because I am not fully ignorant to the dharma and the causations of suffering, but I keep acting as an ignorant being. I drink, I relapsed on my valium taper, I get attached to the past and worry of next week blablabla. However, I have lost attachments to material things and am a little more laid back towards certain aspects of life, but this knowledge, this understanding is useless if i is only within my mind and not used.
Can anybody guide me or offer advice on how to put into practice what I know and how to learn more of what is out there. To understand the world for how it is and be at peace with everything. I was thinking of the 4 noble truths, I have a book by the Dalai Lama which is detail souly on this subject. I don't know, any advice is appreciated, thanks
Tom
0
Comments
Mindfulness.
Intention.
Eightfold Path.
no point knowing it inside out, back to front upside-down and from all directions.
Knowing isn't doing.
You come across as someone genuinely concerned for his spiritual well-being, which is a rare and beautiful quality I would say. We all make plenty of mistakes on the path, if we didn't make mistakes it wouldn't be called "practice".
In my experience, fear of making mistakes tends lead to making more mistakes whereas allowing myself to make mistakes and allowing myself to learn from them leads to less mistakes.
Also, it is worth bearing in mind that it is often difficult to gauge our own progress. Every day is different, every moment is different. Since we are always present (or at least try to be) throughout our lives it is hard to know sometimes how far we have come on our journey.
I know you like Ajahn Brahm, so think of the simile of the hand. How big is a hand? How can you see anything else when you have your hand on your face? You can't. It is the same with your life.
Sometimes other people, especially those we haven't seen for a while, are the best measure. What do they say about us? You say that your sister says you are wiser than you used to be, this is a sign of progress in my opinion.
Do your best. As Ajahn Brahm says "make peace, be kind, be gentle, be patient".
Metta,
Guy
I can relate to this, I aren't too good at learning from my mistakes as well (just look at all my typos!). As I'm sure you know, some traditions and teachers come across as more judgemental than others, but some of that is probably more to do with Christian conditioning (if relevant to you) than otherwise. I was more inclined to anxiety and guilt and needed a path that was based on what was more straight forward and forgiving (Mind as Ease is good for this). It is us that makes Samsara a impure world, our belief in impurity and our lack of self value and respect. In some ways the traditional view of karma can be quite helpful here, if you believe that your present actions are determined by past conditioning, then it is the past conditions that have resulted in any inadequacies that you think you have. They're not "your" inadequacies. That way maybe some personal forgiveness can be generated which may help on the journey. Based on this forgiveness your intention can be strengthened, its our self doubt and guilt that weakens our positive intentions. Also remember that no matter who we are, we start where we are now, not as some hypothetical pseudo buddhist-you who is made for the dharma. The dharma's for us normal people, not Buddha's they don't need it!
Or maybe, like I was, you're still looking for the real dharma and don't truly believe that its all there already, as Po's Dad says in Kung Fu Panda, "there is no secret ingredient". Maybe you need to find the dragon scroll and look inside
Cheers, WK
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Tom -- Everyone has this problem ... running around saying things like "I understand" when really there is little or no honest understanding. OK, so we discover we're full of sh*t. Good discovery.
But let's also notice that the route to that discovery was by means of the willingness to investigate, to actually take a look. That in itself is quite a good thing ... and not all that common.
The whole matter can be pretty depressing because what I claim to "understand" seems bright while what I actually understand seems dim. I am soooooo full of sh*t! But being full of sh*t is not all that extraordinary. It's not really worth getting your tail in a twist about. It's just human. Now what?
Now we keep on practicing. As the Japanese say, "Fall down seven times, get up eight." We practice when we are full of sh*t. We practice when we are brimming with "understanding." A little at a time and sometimes with faltering steps, we practice. And with practice, a little at a time, our sh*tty understanding is replaced by an understanding based in experience. Yup, I'm full of sh*t, but that's just me -- no need to worry too much ... just keep practicing.
I realized that whether we like it or not, we have to be intelligent to survive. We learn and apply new things unconsciously everyday. Why not apply intelligence to your entire life? We take good care of ourselves when it comes to self-preservation (eating relatively good food (sometimes not even that, drinking water, driving on the right side of the road).. However we've cultivated habits that override intelligent thinking. Some people have done this more than others and this creates suffering. So instead of maybe clinging to the Buddha's teachings, why don't you take a break from all this and start to use your own intelligence to figure out effective ways to deal with life. That way you cultivate a habit of intelligence and you enjoy making the right decisions for your well-being and others. If that becomes your source of happiness, it's really all you need.
thanks to everyone else, i have taken on board what has beeen said
anymore posts wold be great
Guess what!? No matter how carefully and calmly and frequently I explain why NOT to do these things she does them anyway.
Why? I used to think she does them consciously to get back at me for something I did. At one point I BEGGED her to tell me what I did (understatement by me here). I apologized a hundred times for whatever it was I did, even if she couldn't identify it.
Guess what? The behaviors stay the same!
My conclusion? She must have a subconscious unresolved neurotic conflict which COMPELS her to this irrational behavior: PERIOD! FWIW, She had a moderately unusual family life as a child; who knows what that did?
Answer: get professional HELP! She won't. I'm just STUCK with adapting to the little annoying things she does. You, Tom? You're stuck with the annoying stuff you do with yourself getting annoyed and discouraged. You need professional help. No big deal. My wife isn't crazy and defective, she just is in an "infinite loop" which nobody but a trained professional can disconnect.
Yes, maybe Buddhism will help her, but I don't see her getting into it deeply enough to have it change. Professionals have better toolboxes, IMO. Maybe they can hit her on the head with a wrench just right, with proper expertise, and get her brain to work properly quickly.
Geeez! Good luck!
Like us you are very fortunate to have found and responded to the dhamma. You like us are spiritual seekers looking for what is true and who we are. That is absolutely wonderful! Myself I have had most of my life to learn and reinforce unskillful behaviors and such little time with practice. I intellectally get it but I don't get it. The little I have experientially understood has taken much time and effort and can now, with limited understanding know and incoporate some of those things into my life. Everyday is like a slow polishing, a slow refining. You are not trying to be someone else, hold with total kindness and compassion who you are and continue your practice.
You said, "i think compassion would have to come in there somewhere, it is also fundamental to liberation. also maybe meditation"
Tom compassion and loving kindness has altered my practice significantly, its a big cornerstone of practice IMO
With love, compassion and many blessings on your path,
Todd
you are what you are and do things the way you do them today because of habits.
You have the habits of thinking a certain way, reacting to things a certain way, even creating habits a certain way etc...
To learn (or change) in this context, you must put some efforts into breaking certain habits, which is difficult since the body naturally hold on to habits and build upon them; the brain doesn't like this naturally.
This is why it is difficult for many to begin a more serious spiritual practice (and have lasting positive changes in their lives.)
Many find the philosophy of Buddhism interesting, but the act of finding something interesting is consistent with the habit of finding stuff interesting in general so it doesnt require any efforts.
To actually sit down and get the work done require a push to break old habits...
Hard to explain. You wouldn't want mistakes to throw you into a room with all mirrors that the infinity of one small mistake is made into something it is not. Or under the magnifying lens?
The problems? A sensitive response eventually bubbles up usually about the time that one is able to let go of the guilt and stops trying too hard.
I know thats incomplete but its just what I can see. And I don't have to worry about controling the things I can't see. I'll worry about that when I am able.
Look, it's possible -- absolutely, entirely possible -- that your interpretation of things is correct. But my own experience is one of painful learning over 25 years (I'm 46) that in the vast majority of cases, the person driving me nuts with their apparently illogical or malicious or whatever-it-is-I-don't-like behvaior is neither bad, mad, nor broken. The problem is almost always one of confusion in language[1]. And all the more so when it comes to intimate male/female relations like husband/wife.
So, again out on that limb and it's probably beginning to crack at his point:
a. You are not communicating what you think you are communicating
b. The way to solve that problem is to begin by fixing *you*, not her
c. The way to that fix is ... nah, it's too big a thing for me. I've only just begun to figure it out myself. *You* go get professional help.
Geez, look at that. And you never even asked for advice. ***crack!*** oops that limb just snapped!
c
[1] The second most common problem, in my experience, is simply a difference in preferences/values -- e.g. maybe she likes having the cat on the table. But since that manifests itself much more quickly, is easier to see and articulate, and easier to handle/fix/tolerate, it's much less common for it to get to the level of frustration you appear to have reached.
Trying to fix others is a good thing. But we have to notice what is actually helping or hurting. But the intention to fix others is what ultimately fixes us. Like how seabiscuit the horse fixed everyone. Just a dumb horse but he/she created this whole world/
its a bit of a hard task getting professional help in and around my area, maybe i will do 1 day ....
maybe a week-long retreat would help? Retreats give people a chance to set aside their busy daily lives temporarily to really immerse themselves in practice for awhile. I thinking of doing one myself, over the summer.
Two wings are needed. It would also be non-sensical to have skill without compassion. Equally non-sense to worry about whether or not you have wings. Well to a point.
Thanks for the advice though guys
Tom
How many alcoholics tell themselves "I can just have one then stop" when they truly know they have never been able to limit it to one. How many anorexics stand in front of a mirror and see too much fat on their body even though all medical and obvious evidence points to them being emaciated? How many teens tell themselves they are "too fat", "too ugly" or "too stupid" even though they are told they are far from that? The problem is we tell ourselves these lies and then act on them. What are the lies you are telling yourself? Do you tell yourself I need to drink or have a pain killer? What a lie that is.
I would work on truly accepting the wisdom of reality in your heart. Connect it with some compassion for yourself. When you can begin to love the Tom you are, you would never be able to allow him to be hurt the way you have been. You would never want to see a friend go through the things you are going through, and you would do your best to stop the self-deception they may practice that keeps them in pain. Look for the lies and deception. They can ruin your life.
@Allbuddha bound, I have read, heard and acknowledged that firstly we must love oneself to be able to truly love another. I just cannot do this for some reason. I have tried metta meditation a couple of times. I am more accepting of myself these days than I use to be, probably due to the fact I am on so many mind numbing substances ..
but i'm 49 now i look back to when i was your age, tom, and i was getting high and still a buddhist, used to drive my friends nuts talking about it, i would take the one thing i like about AA; step one admit that you are an addict, but never admit that you are powerless over your addiction, thats defeatism, you had the power to taper your valium. i faced a crisis when i was about thirty, i had tried a lot of drugs, regularly smoked pot, drank a little and had become addicted to speed, kind of like where you are right now, albeit with a different mix of substances.
i knew it was going nowhere so i decided, pot was my favorite light drug, id quit everything else and just smoke pot, unfortunately this regimen did not involve being a light pot smoker, but it worked in a sense it got me off speed and hard drugs, and i wouldn't drink alcohol unless i was completely off pot. id go a year high, a year sober, a year high and so on. i didn't really grow as a person, im still very juvenile, even still hang out with teenagers at coffee shops,
what i am trying to say to you is set yourself realistic goals, i seems from your reports that total sobriety may not be a possibilty at this time, how about partial sobriety, just valium or just alcohol, my guess is you can't sleep without drugs, have you heard of trazadone, its a very effective anti depressant that puts you to sleep without a hangover in the morning, with far less side effects than either alcohol or valium, just an idea, but talk to a doctor about that definetly.
if you can't do complete sobriety i would reccomend what i did and concentrate on keeping the other four precepts, if you could say i don't lie, i dont't steal i don't kill. i'm faithful to my partner, i do drink, but ive quit drugs, i think that would be a major major accomplishment for you. or is it possible your self medicating for anxiety, valium is an accepted medicine for that, how much valium would a doctor prescribe for major anxiety?
i hope as you grow older you will come to realize that drugs and alcohol compound your problems and make everyday life even harder to face, if you sincerely believe in the wisdom of the buddha, you should someday come to see
the wisdom of his anti drug/alcohol philosophy.
If so, care to say what changed for you?
c
And the "former monk"? What kind of monk (if you don't mind me asking)?
c
The thing with mindfulness is really that it doesn't require anything from you other than to do it whenever you think about it. I don't see it as a burden. I don't TRY to do it every second of the day. When the thought pops into my mind, I'll try to practice it on the task or event at hand. I've become much better.
In fact, the other day I looked at this street lamp and was mindful of the light...temporarily shutting down every other sensory input.....and as time passed, the light grew more and more intense....brighter, much brighter. That was kind of the moment I knew I was on to something with this mindfulness stuff. That and the fact I'm experiencing much more peaceful days these last few weeks. I even go on walks by myself! I never did that before and actually enjoyed them.
I don't like, and can't really handle formal meditation sessions....but Mindfulness of thoughts has greatly helped me.
One thing that kinda just clicked...was the root of many of my problems and I'm really happy to have noticed and actually MANAGED to stop this bad habit........that of playing the victim. Not with other people, but when I'm by myself. This has had a tremendous impact in my way of thinking. I just came back from the hospital for a few days....and if this were a year ago, I'd be making all kinds of stories of how my life never really seems to be fair, or good enough.......but this time, I just meditated and made peace with my thoughts and it was actually a very powerful experience making me realize how I want to help other people. I still don't know HOW but I will come to that one day I'm sure.
So I guess, mindfulness and completely stopping feeling sorry for myself any level (cutting the train of thought the minute I become aware of it) are my tips. I also realized, and this might sound arrogant of me to say....but unlike what I previously thought....this feeling sorry myself business is really common....to the point that most people do it without even being aware of it most of the time. I realized nothing was wrong with me, it's just the way the human mind tends to operate, specially when one doesn't have enough love in one's life.
Anyways, those are my thoughts