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"Hey maybe it's just because I'm a young Buddhist but some of the posts that sounded like... there's nothing wrong with porn, go ahead and watch it seemed out of place at a Buddhist forum.
Buddha's disciples preached the eightfold path..."
Yeah, and I'm sure they did lots of stuff that went against that in their time too. (my first clue is the rule for monks about masturbation: You can masturbate, but only if in your sleep and no semen was expended. someone had to have been a horrible lair when they were caught, "Oh, no, I was asleep! Honest!")
The main point of the Eight fold path is for people that haven't come to the ability to figure out what is right or wrong for themselves. and only an individual can figure that out. Maybe for you watching porn is wrong. for someone else, watching porn may very well be the best thing they can do. It's not up to me, or you, or anyone else, to tell a person what is right or wrong for them.
at best we can only guess what someone's situation is, and the reasons they do things. and a guess is a horrible reason to say, "do this!" "do that!" "go here!" "go there!"
Like Bodhidharma said, "nothing holy."
Buddha left most of his teachings purposefully vague. what is sexual misconduct for one person isn't for another. you can see this yourself if you go check out a thread where everyone is trying to pin down exactly what the phrase universally, as in, for everyone, means.
I think the question to ask is: "is viewing this contributing to the suffering of another person?" Despite the claptrap arguments for watching porn, it seems hard to understand how this isn't the case, even if a company in question is "ethical", considering that these companies are all intertwined with other companies and websites that distribute that are questionable.
Not to mention that porn stars, male or female, are degrading themselves, and the industry, "legit" or not, is being exposed to children all over the place via the internet, and what we can see right now is a shift in young people's perceptions of sex and relationships.
If one wants to assert that it is basic, animal instinct, then they also have to admit that humans are a much more mentally evolved species, capable of learning to not kill, not rape and can mentally evolve for the psychological and life betterment of the species.
it seems as though this would especially affect the men more then the women. But that is just an oversight I think cause the only one I know of to answer this question is mwah! I am a woman. Here me ROAR. heh heh.
I think it is far stronger an erge (sp) in men. Poor things. Because I know they really struggle with this. For me it is quite simple. I just dried up and blew away.
I heard in one of Gil Fronsdale's talks(Hindrances) and Andrea Fella, and I think I also passed by this one in a book;
There was a discussion about how monks view corpses to combat desire.
There was also a chant where you name different parts of the body and then go to the internal parts of the body.
It's supposed to tranform the desire of flesh to looking at the disgusting parts of the body so you get a fuller idea of what the body is and not just an idealistic one.
You start out:
Hair, nails, skin, teeth and you repeat this several times
and then move onto :
bile, snot, gore, urine, bowels
You repeat this for a while.
I believe you can do it naked as well. It's supposed to help you visualize.
There's something like 50+ medidations on parts of the body.
Also, I think this was also supposed to stop people from hating their bodies so they stop seeing 'flaws' and just see what the body is made of
I should add on personal experience: I have no idea if it helps sexual desire(this is not one of the things I've struggled with... but more like suffered with a lessened drive)
It did help me see my body a little more for what it is rather than hating it. which being a woman, is very easy to hate one's own body considering what we see every day in advertising.
There's nothing inherently good about pornography as it is steeped in lying, cheating, objectification, drugs, artificiality, etc, none of which will help you in your journey toward enlightenment. Even videos that are made by "monogamous" couples can easily lead to jealous feelings and objectification in a viewer - single or not.
And secondly, porn is used as a means to an "orgasmic" end. Fantastic sensations are never permanent, and therefore one should never cling to them as we can only be disappointed when when we believe we "need" them. That said, having an orgasm is not wrong it itself, but rather man's relationship to his orgasms.
Masturbation - if you're not in a monogamous sexual relationship - is the best means to relieve a build-up of sexual tension if you're blindly convinced that biology has gotten the best of you, provided meditation has already been exhausted to "diminish" the feelings. I also don't believe masturbation in itself is "sinful" or "wrong" (as I believe is the case with pornography), but it's not going to "lead" you anywhere more beautiful than you already are; in other words, there's no greater liberation from suffering in masturbation, or any sexual activity, for that matter.
I think it is far stronger an erge (sp) in men. Poor things. Because I know they really struggle with this. For me it is quite simple. I just dried up and blew away.
heh heh
There are men having hair transplanted from the back of the head to the front, and wire implanted in the penis in order to sculpt it into an erection long past its due date. According to wiki the worldwide market for erectile dysfunction medication is $ 3,000,000,000 U.S.
For me porn had been a substitute for normal sexual activity. I gave myself more grief over it than I care to remember. Once I found my soul-mate, the "problem" almost disappeared. I say "almost" because when my spouse is unavailable for some reason, I still get the urge which sometimes I can't resist.
If one is single, I believe the effort should be put into finding a committed relationship as opposed to fighting the urge to view porn. With nothing to substitute for watching porn, that is an astonishingly difficult battle to fight, at least it was for me. It definitely is more "fun" than simple self-pleasuring and with the Internet providing easy access, the question "why not?" is a hard one to answer convincingly for a tense male.
That said, I am not trying to say that if you don't have a partner, viewing porn is the way to go. I took that approach but that was due to weakness, not sincere conviction. I also feel compelled to say that I suspect that my long reliance on porn during my single years has had some negative impact on me. When you get used to satisfying yourself using those images, there is some barrier to complete intimacy with a living person. Relating to another person may become more difficult if your sexuality is conditioned by porn.
So good luck in kicking the habit-- you're almost certainly going to be better off without it. But if you can't, it just might be that you're like I was-- still in need of a sexual relationship in your life. In which case get a girlfriend/wife instead of obsessing over viewing or not viewing X-rated material.
Between posting the original post and now, I had some studying to do for some exams. I was trying my best to not do the deed and I succeeded. Mostly from having had work to do, and when I really got into my work, the desires were less apparent.
Anyway, that said, I did do the deed at one point during my exams, and I soon began to notice that I felt less energy, both mental and physical afterwards. So that there, is just another bad thing about porno and masturbation, there is no positive end result to this use up of energy. Just a waste of time.
Soon after all that I did do my best, and have gone days without it, while some days, lets just leave it at that. Ahem. I hope it's not like the binge drinking concept, where you don't and then when you do, you go overboard which is worse?
Maybe I should set myself a goal, say once a week and try my best to stick to it. As for finding a caring relationship, well I'm trying! It's not easy for me, I get easily attached and I'm very careful of that.
Thanks again for your replies. And special thanks to bruj0, I will be trying some of those meditation techniques. I've heard those before, where you are meant to concentrate on the icky parts of a human body. I never really thought of that as a means to an end for desires of the flesh, in the moments the desires are apparent in your mind. I'm not even sure if that is possible to do. The reason I say this is because I don't really have a regular mediation practice.
There are men having hair transplanted from the back of the head to the front, and wire implanted in the penis in order to sculpt it into an erection long past its due date. According to wiki the worldwide market for erectile dysfunction medication is $ 3,000,000,000 U.S.
..the male ego is a drag.
yes is it....still frustrating if your thing doesn't do it's business I guess...
"I had some studying to do for some exams. I was trying my best to not do the deed and I succeeded"
why? Jerking off isn't in and of itself a bad thing.
if you really need to jerk off, to the point where it's affecting your daily life, then jerk off. as far as I know, you're not a monk (and most of the monks I've met fuck!), so if it is a problem, then stop. if it's not a problem, then do it appropriately.
"I think the question to ask is: "is viewing this contributing to the suffering of another person?" Despite the claptrap arguments for watching porn, it seems hard to understand how this isn't the case, even if a company in question is "ethical", considering that these companies are all intertwined with other companies and websites that distribute that are questionable.
Not to mention that porn stars, male or female, are degrading themselves, and the industry, "legit" or not, is being exposed to children all over the place via the internet, and what we can see right now is a shift in young people's perceptions of sex and relationships.
If one wants to assert that it is basic, animal instinct, then they also have to admit that humans are a much more mentally evolved species, capable of learning to not kill, not rape and can mentally evolve for the psychological and life betterment of the species."
Indeed. and those companies are intertwined with everything else. Anything can cause suffering. Working a 9-5 where you wear a suit and crunch numbers can cause suffering. the same thing can be at times degrading too. Some people just really like sex. I don't see that as being too far fetched. if you can get paid for something you love to do, why not have at it? Some people like being objectified, believe it or not.
I want to assert that pornography is no more inherently bad than going to the gym or reading a book. or even practicing zazen, for that matter.
Indeed. and those companies are intertwined with everything else. Anything can cause suffering. Working a 9-5 where you wear a suit and crunch numbers can cause suffering. the same thing can be at times degrading too. Some people just really like sex. I don't see that as being too far fetched. if you can get paid for something you love to do, why not have at it? Some people like being objectified, believe it or not.
I want to assert that pornography is no more inherently bad than going to the gym or reading a book. or even practicing zazen, for that matter.
Of course, nothing is inherently "bad" or "good". Yes, some people like being objectified. People like a lot of things that are damaging or not damaging. This doesn't really have anything to do with the market for pornography, or any other market for that matter. Consumer culture has a foundation of dishonesty to begin with. It's about showing you what you want, telling you what you want to hear, to achieve the objective of your consumption, which can turn obsessive very easily. It's manipulation to begin with. People who care for one another don't naturally interact like that.
Perhaps it is looking into the true nature of a bigger problem, it's fallout, and what we are doing by supporting/not supporting this problem. I say "problem" as referring to suffering and personal dysfunction.
Just to keep anyone who comes this way informed: In the past few weeks I've really managed to control my masturbation to almost about once a week. I see a significant change. I get a lot more done and even some of my friends said they see a change in me in just within a month.
I do get quite horny, but like someone mentioned on this thread, I'm beginning to see how that build up of energy can be used else where.
I am surprised how many people think porn is harmless or even acceptable. If you look at past history, you'd be able to see how much problems were contributed by uncontrollable sexual urges. And porn is just to increase or stir that up beyond reasonable control.
It's one thing to have not enough willpower to fight the porn or desire, but to conclude that it is good or acceptable and to even advise others to accept it is going to be negative karma for the adviser and not to mention, i think his/her own life and lives to come will just be reinforcing the desire pattern stronger and stronger till it brings a very big problem... if you look at the sex scandals prevalent nowadays, it's just a sign that people are having a lot of problem with desire and being overcome by it.
For sure, in Buddhism, never has desire been condone. Buddha's mind is free of all desire and the nature of mind is free from such mental afflictions and the nature of desire is only to bring more suffering.
It is said by the Bodhisattva, Thogme Ngulchu, that desire is like eating salt, it only brings more and more thirst...
If we understand the faults of desire and porn, we would gradually be able to have more and more ability to deal with it. If we can't even see its flaws, then it will be much more difficult to overcome it and clean up the negative effects it has on one's life.
Comments
I found it to be addictive and it gives me 'wrong' energy.
Plus it's just plain old......FAKE.
I think the question to ask is: "is viewing this contributing to the suffering of another person?" Despite the claptrap arguments for watching porn, it seems hard to understand how this isn't the case, even if a company in question is "ethical", considering that these companies are all intertwined with other companies and websites that distribute that are questionable.
Not to mention that porn stars, male or female, are degrading themselves, and the industry, "legit" or not, is being exposed to children all over the place via the internet, and what we can see right now is a shift in young people's perceptions of sex and relationships.
If one wants to assert that it is basic, animal instinct, then they also have to admit that humans are a much more mentally evolved species, capable of learning to not kill, not rape and can mentally evolve for the psychological and life betterment of the species.
I think it is far stronger an erge (sp) in men. Poor things. Because I know they really struggle with this. For me it is quite simple. I just dried up and blew away.
heh heh
There was a discussion about how monks view corpses to combat desire.
There was also a chant where you name different parts of the body and then go to the internal parts of the body.
It's supposed to tranform the desire of flesh to looking at the disgusting parts of the body so you get a fuller idea of what the body is and not just an idealistic one.
You start out:
Hair, nails, skin, teeth and you repeat this several times
and then move onto :
bile, snot, gore, urine, bowels
You repeat this for a while.
I believe you can do it naked as well. It's supposed to help you visualize.
There's something like 50+ medidations on parts of the body.
Also, I think this was also supposed to stop people from hating their bodies so they stop seeing 'flaws' and just see what the body is made of
I should add on personal experience: I have no idea if it helps sexual desire(this is not one of the things I've struggled with... but more like suffered with a lessened drive)
It did help me see my body a little more for what it is rather than hating it. which being a woman, is very easy to hate one's own body considering what we see every day in advertising.
And secondly, porn is used as a means to an "orgasmic" end. Fantastic sensations are never permanent, and therefore one should never cling to them as we can only be disappointed when when we believe we "need" them. That said, having an orgasm is not wrong it itself, but rather man's relationship to his orgasms.
Masturbation - if you're not in a monogamous sexual relationship - is the best means to relieve a build-up of sexual tension if you're blindly convinced that biology has gotten the best of you, provided meditation has already been exhausted to "diminish" the feelings. I also don't believe masturbation in itself is "sinful" or "wrong" (as I believe is the case with pornography), but it's not going to "lead" you anywhere more beautiful than you already are; in other words, there's no greater liberation from suffering in masturbation, or any sexual activity, for that matter.
There are men having hair transplanted from the back of the head to the front, and wire implanted in the penis in order to sculpt it into an erection long past its due date. According to wiki the worldwide market for erectile dysfunction medication is $ 3,000,000,000 U.S.
..the male ego is a drag.
If one is single, I believe the effort should be put into finding a committed relationship as opposed to fighting the urge to view porn. With nothing to substitute for watching porn, that is an astonishingly difficult battle to fight, at least it was for me. It definitely is more "fun" than simple self-pleasuring and with the Internet providing easy access, the question "why not?" is a hard one to answer convincingly for a tense male.
That said, I am not trying to say that if you don't have a partner, viewing porn is the way to go. I took that approach but that was due to weakness, not sincere conviction. I also feel compelled to say that I suspect that my long reliance on porn during my single years has had some negative impact on me. When you get used to satisfying yourself using those images, there is some barrier to complete intimacy with a living person. Relating to another person may become more difficult if your sexuality is conditioned by porn.
So good luck in kicking the habit-- you're almost certainly going to be better off without it. But if you can't, it just might be that you're like I was-- still in need of a sexual relationship in your life. In which case get a girlfriend/wife instead of obsessing over viewing or not viewing X-rated material.
Between posting the original post and now, I had some studying to do for some exams. I was trying my best to not do the deed and I succeeded. Mostly from having had work to do, and when I really got into my work, the desires were less apparent.
Anyway, that said, I did do the deed at one point during my exams, and I soon began to notice that I felt less energy, both mental and physical afterwards. So that there, is just another bad thing about porno and masturbation, there is no positive end result to this use up of energy. Just a waste of time.
Soon after all that I did do my best, and have gone days without it, while some days, lets just leave it at that. Ahem. I hope it's not like the binge drinking concept, where you don't and then when you do, you go overboard which is worse?
Maybe I should set myself a goal, say once a week and try my best to stick to it. As for finding a caring relationship, well I'm trying! It's not easy for me, I get easily attached and I'm very careful of that.
Thanks again for your replies. And special thanks to bruj0, I will be trying some of those meditation techniques. I've heard those before, where you are meant to concentrate on the icky parts of a human body. I never really thought of that as a means to an end for desires of the flesh, in the moments the desires are apparent in your mind. I'm not even sure if that is possible to do. The reason I say this is because I don't really have a regular mediation practice.
yes is it....still frustrating if your thing doesn't do it's business I guess...
why? Jerking off isn't in and of itself a bad thing.
if you really need to jerk off, to the point where it's affecting your daily life, then jerk off. as far as I know, you're not a monk (and most of the monks I've met fuck!), so if it is a problem, then stop. if it's not a problem, then do it appropriately.
Indeed. and those companies are intertwined with everything else. Anything can cause suffering. Working a 9-5 where you wear a suit and crunch numbers can cause suffering. the same thing can be at times degrading too. Some people just really like sex. I don't see that as being too far fetched. if you can get paid for something you love to do, why not have at it? Some people like being objectified, believe it or not.
I want to assert that pornography is no more inherently bad than going to the gym or reading a book. or even practicing zazen, for that matter.
Of course, nothing is inherently "bad" or "good". Yes, some people like being objectified. People like a lot of things that are damaging or not damaging. This doesn't really have anything to do with the market for pornography, or any other market for that matter. Consumer culture has a foundation of dishonesty to begin with. It's about showing you what you want, telling you what you want to hear, to achieve the objective of your consumption, which can turn obsessive very easily. It's manipulation to begin with. People who care for one another don't naturally interact like that.
Perhaps it is looking into the true nature of a bigger problem, it's fallout, and what we are doing by supporting/not supporting this problem. I say "problem" as referring to suffering and personal dysfunction.
In gratitude...
I do get quite horny, but like someone mentioned on this thread, I'm beginning to see how that build up of energy can be used else where.
I am surprised how many people think porn is harmless or even acceptable. If you look at past history, you'd be able to see how much problems were contributed by uncontrollable sexual urges. And porn is just to increase or stir that up beyond reasonable control.
It's one thing to have not enough willpower to fight the porn or desire, but to conclude that it is good or acceptable and to even advise others to accept it is going to be negative karma for the adviser and not to mention, i think his/her own life and lives to come will just be reinforcing the desire pattern stronger and stronger till it brings a very big problem... if you look at the sex scandals prevalent nowadays, it's just a sign that people are having a lot of problem with desire and being overcome by it.
For sure, in Buddhism, never has desire been condone. Buddha's mind is free of all desire and the nature of mind is free from such mental afflictions and the nature of desire is only to bring more suffering.
It is said by the Bodhisattva, Thogme Ngulchu, that desire is like eating salt, it only brings more and more thirst...
If we understand the faults of desire and porn, we would gradually be able to have more and more ability to deal with it. If we can't even see its flaws, then it will be much more difficult to overcome it and clean up the negative effects it has on one's life.