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A key point to keep in mind is that it's not just about whether one is physically hurting another with their job. It's also about moral/spiritual/psychological damage
I'm interested in hearing what you do for a living.
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
With porn, there is more to it than you sitting there getting revved up to hump your partner. There are many more component factors, that even if you insist that your life it better off, it almost certainly is not, because you're digesting the other factors to which you appear wholly ignorant.
i completely agree with this. as i said before, i have neared porn addiction in my past, but this knowledge is something that came about as a result of my buddhist practice. it was odd to me how much was going on in my body that i was completely unaware of.
i think for a long time, i simply thought it was harmless and completely normal (which it may be) and i never investigated what it was really doing to me. it seemed to me that i just bumbled on blindly never taking the time to think about how my actions may be effecting me. how they make me feel. whether or not these feelings were really good or not. when i actually took the time to think about the effect porn had on me, and indeed, why i watched it in the first place... i felt i was finally able to break free of the cycle. i didn't like what i found.
I think even calling it unskillful is a judgement based on ones own beliefs and preconceptions. Its kind of patronising because it implies that anyone who doesn't conform is not as skilful as someone who does which I don't think is true. Maybe its better to see it as "For me it doesnt work but for others it does".
Anyway at the end of the day its all about attachment to the experience or thing and not about the thing itself. Money can also bring suffering if one is too attached to it and some would say that money is the root of all evil however I doubt many people would give it up. It can be used for good or it can be used for evil. Instead we can release our attachment and still have money and in the same way if a person enjoys porn and finds it stimulating they can still enjoy it but perhaps release their attachment to it. Whats good for some is not necessarily good for all.
it's not a judgment on the person. there are things in this world which are not helpful to the cessation of suffering, i label them as such. if a person still watches porn and still drinks, i am not saying that they themselves are unskillful, i am saying that they are utilizing unskillful means at that time. i myself still drink alcohol from time to time and i still believe it is unskillful. do i think that i am unskillful? not really. i think i make dumb choices sometimes and don't always do what's best for me. haha. sometimes an argument happens or something otherwise negative that makes me wish i hadn't drank and i realize my folly. sometimes nothing obviously bad happens, but it can still be said that alcohol harms my body. this is why it is still unskillful, whether i realize it or not. it is always better to be aware. regarding porn, i don't believe it creates addiction in every person, but i still think it harms your mind regardless.
smoking is unskillful. a smoker will almost always tell you that smoking is horrible and lament over why they ever started in the first place. this is the person still in the addiction. an ex-smoker will almost always tell you that smoking is horrible, but they may be proactive and suggest ways in which to quit. this is the person with the knowledge of the truth of the addiction. on a side note, i just quit smoking about 4 months ago. cold turkey. i did it through introspection of the way that smoking made me feel. the harder the addictive pull became, the more i knew i had to quit. the more aware i was of this negative, the easier it became to let it go. it's much easier to just go on and buy another pack, it's much harder to take a good look at your life and all of the bad things that smoking does: costs a lot of money, your house smells, your friends complain, burn holes, can't run, can't sing, bad for your health etc...
please don't infer that because i say that something is "unskillful" that i feel above people who do partake. this is not buddhism, quite the opposite really.
i believe that knowledge is power. to analyze the way in which your actions effect you can bring invaluable knowledge of your psyche. to know that something is unskillful does not mean, "GIVE IT UP FOREVER AND BASH THOSE WHO DO NOT!!!!" it simply means, to understand it at the most basic means: "what does this do to/for me? why do i keep doing it?" this can help release it's hold on you as well. it is actually an act of compassion to say, "i have found this unskillful, perhaps you too should examine this for yourself in a chance to improve your life." but i would only ever do this when asked, don't think i am standing outside porn shops handing out flyers.
an addiction can creep up on anyone, and indeed, those affected usually have absolutely no idea. this is why they say that acceptance is the first step to recovery. having seen this again and again in myself and those around me, i accept this fact wholeheartedly. the difference between me and a heroin addict is that i have never tried heroin. :winkc: i would say that you are being less accepting by your belief that addiction befalls those who are weak or in some way damaged. this isn't true. the very basic point we will disagree on here is that you can never break an addiction or lessen the hold of attachment by MORE of something. once i saw a documentary on tv of an extremely overweight person (700+) with a food addiction and he said, "how successful would a heroin addict be if they were forced to only have A LITTLE heroin every day?" for me, this put into perspective the hold that the substance can have upon a person.
i just want to say that i accept you as you are and your beliefs and do not think badly of you or look down on you. it could be my perception, but you seem quite upset and frequently seem to derive that i/others are attacking you with our statements. this is just a friendly discussion, no big deal. we may disagree, but we can still be friends here
I think it is safe to say that there are harmful actions that people ignorantly declare are not-harmful. Your notion of moral-relativism reminds me of the sophists.
I wonder if you would consider heroine a social good, because maybe someone can come along and use it for painkilling, like it was first used. Perhaps, certainly, one could interact with it skillfully. In my opinion, that would be abstaining from using it, as the substance is inherently fraught with pitfalls. It would be silly to regard it only harmful in the hand of the beholder. That only an addict would become addicted... have you done any study on addiction? There are actually substances that the body becomes addicted to, its not an excuse made up by weak minded people. Its biological.
With porn, there is more to it than you sitting there getting revved up to hump your partner. There are many more component factors, that even if you insist that your life it better off, it almost certainly is not, because you're digesting the other factors to which you appear wholly ignorant.
I'm sorry you considered my words patronizing, and I admit that when I first read your words I thought I was speaking to a child, so I was treating you like a child.
With warmth,
Matt
Wow, you can add self righteous to that. This is why I reject most religions because of people like you with polarised views who come across as morally superior. I really thought buddhists would be different but seems many of you are no better than the christians in that regard. And yes I do know all about addiction because Ive been there but Im not naive or stupid enough to blame the substance I was addicted to. I overcame my own addiction many years ago through facing certain issues within myself and not through blaming externals. Of course there are substances etc including porn that can be extremely damaging for people. No one is denying that however people can be addicted to anything. For many food can be just as deadly as heroin. In fact you can live with a heroin addiction your entire life whereas a rampant food addiction can kill you pretty quickly if left unchecked. Where do you get off judging my life or anyones for that matter. Just because you read some religious teachings does not make you more enlightened or a better person of that I am very clear. I cannot understand why you even bother placing that false token gesture "with warmth" at the bottom of your post because it most certainly is not heartfelt. I may not be able to thank you for inspiring me to be a buddhist but what I can thank you for is helping me to remember why organised religion sucks ie-because it produces people like you. Good day.
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
Wow, you can add self righteous to that. This is why I reject most religions because of people like you with polarised views who come across as morally superior. I really thought buddhists would be different but seems many of you are no better than the christians in that regard. And yes I do know all about addiction because Ive been there but Im not naive or stupid enough to blame the substance I was addicted to. I overcame my own addiction many years ago through facing certain issues within myself and not through blaming externals. Of course there are substances etc including porn that can be extremely damaging for people. No one is denying that however people can be addicted to anything. For many food can be just as deadly as heroin. In fact you can live with a heroin addiction your entire life whereas a rampant food addiction can kill you pretty quickly if left unchecked. Where do you get off judging my life or anyones for that matter. Just because you read some religious teachings does not make you more enlightened or a better person of that I am very clear. I cannot understand why you even bother placing that false token gesture "with warmth" at the bottom of your post because it most certainly is not heartfelt. I may not be able to thank you for inspiring me to be a buddhist but what I can thank you for is helping me to remember why organised religion sucks ie-because it produces people like you. Good day.
i'm sorry zania, i don't see what you are so offended by in matt's comment.
unless it's the "thought you were a child" thing. i'm sorry, to be honest, i thought the same thing. i don't mean this as an insult, just that i was shocked to find you had been in a relationship for 10 years (i think you said?). something in the way you ask questions, probably. it's childlike. not in the bad sense, just in the... constant wondering, perhaps? please don't take offense at this.
your response here is exactly why i added the end bit on mine. you seem to think we are attacking you or looking down on you, and i want you to know that's not happening here.
a concept we study in nichiren buddhism is that of the ten worlds. the ten worlds are: hell, hunger, animality, anger, humanity/tranquility, rapture/heaven, learning, realization, bodhisattva, and buddhahood. the very basic explanation is that all of these "worlds" exist within us simultaneously at all times. when we are angry or depressed, the goodness of buddhahood still exists within us. when we are in the state of the bodhisattva, anger still exists within us. this concept is used to explain the reason why two people might experience the same event in different ways. most have a tendency to be trapped within one or two worlds and this can shape our understanding and view of the outside world. it can be like rose colored glasses, but we can also see negativity in things where there is none. feel we are being attacked when we are not. for a long time, i struggled in hell. i was depressed and my life did become a hell. i could not see the good in anything within this mind state. the concept that the other worlds also exist within me helped me to understand that it was a hell of my own design, i could escape if i chose to. just as hell exists within me, so does tranquility and rapture.
an example i liked was given by richard causton in his book, "the buddha in daily life". he described a scene in which two people were driving up the same mountain. it begins to rain lightly and thunder strikes off in the distance.
the first person is quite enjoying the experience. he looks at the mountain with wonder at it's beauty. he notices animals in his environment and feels connection to the world. it begins to rain, he listens to the soft pitter patter on the windshield and feels content. lightening strikes, he is amazed by nature's power.
the second person feels the mountain is menacing. he looks at the winding road and feels distressed. and now, even worse, it's beginning to rain! he sees the dark storm clouds above and wishes for a sunny day, angry that it is not in the cards. lightening strikes and even though it is not near to him, he is startled and feels anxious and irritated.
what is it that makes these two people experience the same event in such different ways? it must be something within him. a mind state can change our perception. it would be nice if we could always view things neutrally, but that is not possible. our minds do tend to muddle everything up. we all would do better to try though. seeing negativity where there is none really doesn't do you any favors. it just makes you disconnected with the world that you feel is always against you.
anyways, you can do what you want with this. i don't expect you to accept it, i just hope you will consider it.
i hope that you find what you are looking for elsewhere.
Of course there are substances etc including porn that can be extremely damaging for people.
All of the judging me aside, I think you're revealing something important with these particular words. If one spent time examining more closely how its damaging, and how many parts of the interaction are damaging and why, then perhaps it could be understood why porn is being called unskillful.
The forum replies are rich with insight as to where the troubled spots are, perhaps you're the one preaching morality? There are many causes and effects that lead to the moment of watching porn, but even if I see it as unskillful, I would not consider watching porn immoral. Like smoking is not immoral, but it is unskillful. Similar to porn, I would challenge the notion that for some, smoking is healthy. An addict might try to convince a person that smoking is healthy, and it would be sad, but it would not make smoking healthy.
This hasn't arisen for me because I read in a book that so and so said this and that about porn, or smoking. This arrives from simply looking at all of the side effects without delusion. I apologize if my tone is blunt or abrupt, I mean no offense... I only say what seems to need saying, and I do so with love for you.
I may not be able to thank you for inspiring me to be a buddhist but what I can thank you for is helping me to remember why organised religion sucks ie-because it produces people like you. Good day.
It's really unfortunate, because frankly, aMatt provides some of the most insightful, thought-provoking, compassionate and invaluable posts on this forum. As I said before, I get a trolling vibe from you, and this sort of thing is why... honestly you seem to have come here with your mind made up that religion is bad and Buddhism is the same as all others. You've gone so far as to take a single person as a representation of Buddhism and what it results in, even though said person was simply stating his own personal opinion and Buddhists are all human like anyone else with varying views and values. For all you know, aMatt is only just curious about Buddhism himself and came here to learn about it, like yourself, and knows little to nothing about it. There are undoubtedly Buddhists who don't see porn as unskillful and who even watch it themselves. I personally see it as unskillful, from either side of it, but don't care what others do amongst themselves of their own free will. I don't however see it as inherently "morally wrong." But as said you seem to have come here with the aforementioned agenda, and have found your excuse to not bother investigating the teachings any further and to toss Buddhism aside without giving it an honest chance.
Honestly, I imagine there are very few people who wouldn't see it as unfortunate, whether they're part of a religion or not, that you cannot understand the term "making love." For most people it's like saying they don't understand the meaning of "love" or "happiness." Do you hope others will know love and happiness? Are you patronizing?
Deal with it... there will be those who deny all religion and patronize and look down on you just the same, my friend.
Buddha never criticised prostitution, much less porn. Lying is in the 5 precepts and everyone lies, and thinks its no big deal. why make a big deal out of porn?
the buddha did not say this, which is why we do not know the Buddha.. :-/
Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right view, wrong view is abolished. The many evil, unskillful qualities that come into play with wrong view as their condition are also abolished, while the many skillful qualities that have right view as their condition go to the culmination of their development. In one of right resolve, wrong resolve is abolished... In one of right speech, wrong speech is abolished... In one of right action, wrong action is abolished... In one of right livelihood, wrong livelihood is abolished... In one of right effort, wrong effort is abolished... In one of right mindfulness, wrong mindfulness is abolished... In one of right concentration, wrong concentration is abolished... In one of right knowledge, wrong knowledge is abolished... In one of right release, wrong release is abolished. The many evil, unskillful qualities that come into play with wrong release as their condition are also abolished, while the many skillful qualities that have right release as their condition go to the culmination of their development.
Thus, monks, there are twenty factors siding with skillfulness, and twenty with unskillfulness.
This Dhamma discourse on the Great Forty has been set rolling and cannot be stopped by any contemplative or priest or deva or Mara and Brahma or anyone at all in the world.
If any priest or contemplative might think that this Great Forty Dhamma discourse should be censured & rejected.......
Buddha never criticised prostitution, much less porn. Lying is in the 5 precepts and everyone lies, and thinks its no big deal. why make a big deal out of porn?
:-/
Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata.
1. i'm pretty sure right view is that there is no fixed finite position that can be absolute.
2. right is conditional. wrong is conditional.
3. buddha this, buddha that.
1. this is just your viewpoint and not the Buddha's. TNH is not the Buddha
2. "right" is conditional in that it leads to peace, non-harm & safety (Nibbana). "wrong" is conditional in that it leads to suffering, torment, harm & danger. Buddha taught for peace and not for mental torment
3. exactly, which is why we do not know the Buddha :-/
No. The original poster has returned to the thread and they have an opportunity to answer their original question by detailing the outcome of their friend's actions.
Buddhism and ethics are not about rules. They are about the results of actions.
If the girl has become genuinely more happy, content and at peace by her webcaming, then the precepts are wrong, of no benefit or, alternately, not applicable.
Once you feel good about yourself, And you sit often...
the urge to watch it,
slowly....
dissapates...
hi dude
this thread is one year old now and you returned back to it today
so, if you care, can you share with us how your webcam friend's life has been over the last year
Buddhism is mostly about experience rather than following rules
so how is your friend one year later? happier? still with her boyfriend? more relaxed? got a job promotion?
thanks
I've been reading the thread often, but i've let the discussion live it's own life.
A year allready Darnm, time flies haha.
She's not with her boyfriend anymore, he gave her up. She quit the webcam job before that tough. She's still a student, so working fulltime is difficult to manage.
It's hard to tell if she's happier or not. She says it ddidn't make a difference having that job or not, the only reason she quit doing was for her ex-boyfriend. On the other hand, She has lost her bankcard, passport, bike, and has money problems, in about two months time, after she broke up with the dude. She's still drinking a lot, partying till she looses all control. And lately she's having casual sex all over.
I was her boyfriend......
Lost most of the contact with her. My choice, not hers, At first she wanted me back.
But, it's for the best of both of us.
If I, didn't start to complain about the job, she would be still doing it. And somewhere,in the back of my mind, I'm pretty sure she is doing it again. I've found pictures of her, were's she's dressed up all kinky and sexual, to attrect customers online, and she never did that kind of things for me. In fact, last year or so of the relationship she was hardly ever in the mood. It's easy money, and loads of it. But that's only an assumption, I asked her what her new job is, and she wouldn't tell me.
Anyways, she's happier in life in general, now we're not together anymore, At least she tells me, But the last time I was at her place, she was showing me around, like to impress me, and she offered me pie and coffee to stick around (?). I gave her to feeling I was better then her, by being moral and having values. That's her ego filling in my beheaviour I guess. I know for one thing, I'm happier, she was a bad influence, violent, abusive, loud and chaotic and a destructive person.
But perhaps, if she ever finds a new boyfriend, that beheaviour will go away.
I did a test, and I didn't get any diseases from her, so that's good,
I guess I will never know if she will be happy, with or without that job, with or without me, cause I broke all contact.
Weather it's unethical or not.. I think is less important as to how she feels about it, will it be something she regrets? Money is an easy temptation unfortunately
@iamthezenmaster It was never an insult. I was just pointing out that you necro'd a year old thread. But since you gave us an update now, it seems justified. Typically, necro'ing threads (resurrecting old old threads) is typically frowned upon in forums.
It's good that you ended it. She seemed like bad news. I wouldn't let my girlfriend expose herself online to other men because I would want her to have some self-respect. Using your body in a lusty way shows a lack of self-compassion in my opinion.
@jeffrey me too... I thought the chaos and abuse was fun and exciting...for a long long time... I've mistake wisdom, calmness and being at peace for boredom... It's anything but
@yishai I can image you've mistaken me for a necro. But, as I stated, I've been reading the thread a year long, i've let the discussion live it's own life.. It's a great way to learn, make a statement, and then just shut up and listen to other people...
Appreations for here boy friend accepting her as she is. Ask her to stop that job from this minute and suggest her to go with her boy friend and lead a happy life with him. And make sure that her boy friend should take care about her a lot. Till now she faced a lot of problems. What's wrong in situations made here to do like that let here lead a happy life with her boy friend.
@chaitunadimpalli thank you for your kindness. I've tried to take care of her a lot. She didn't want me to help. So I ended the relationship. Compassion...has it's limits, I've come to believe that's a part of compassion too.
Comments
I'm interested in hearing what you do for a living.
i completely agree with this. as i said before, i have neared porn addiction in my past, but this knowledge is something that came about as a result of my buddhist practice. it was odd to me how much was going on in my body that i was completely unaware of.
i think for a long time, i simply thought it was harmless and completely normal (which it may be) and i never investigated what it was really doing to me. it seemed to me that i just bumbled on blindly never taking the time to think about how my actions may be effecting me. how they make me feel. whether or not these feelings were really good or not. when i actually took the time to think about the effect porn had on me, and indeed, why i watched it in the first place... i felt i was finally able to break free of the cycle. i didn't like what i found.
it's not a judgment on the person. there are things in this world which are not helpful to the cessation of suffering, i label them as such. if a person still watches porn and still drinks, i am not saying that they themselves are unskillful, i am saying that they are utilizing unskillful means at that time. i myself still drink alcohol from time to time and i still believe it is unskillful. do i think that i am unskillful? not really. i think i make dumb choices sometimes and don't always do what's best for me. haha. sometimes an argument happens or something otherwise negative that makes me wish i hadn't drank and i realize my folly. sometimes nothing obviously bad happens, but it can still be said that alcohol harms my body. this is why it is still unskillful, whether i realize it or not. it is always better to be aware. regarding porn, i don't believe it creates addiction in every person, but i still think it harms your mind regardless.
smoking is unskillful. a smoker will almost always tell you that smoking is horrible and lament over why they ever started in the first place. this is the person still in the addiction. an ex-smoker will almost always tell you that smoking is horrible, but they may be proactive and suggest ways in which to quit. this is the person with the knowledge of the truth of the addiction. on a side note, i just quit smoking about 4 months ago. cold turkey. i did it through introspection of the way that smoking made me feel. the harder the addictive pull became, the more i knew i had to quit. the more aware i was of this negative, the easier it became to let it go. it's much easier to just go on and buy another pack, it's much harder to take a good look at your life and all of the bad things that smoking does: costs a lot of money, your house smells, your friends complain, burn holes, can't run, can't sing, bad for your health etc...
please don't infer that because i say that something is "unskillful" that i feel above people who do partake. this is not buddhism, quite the opposite really.
i believe that knowledge is power. to analyze the way in which your actions effect you can bring invaluable knowledge of your psyche. to know that something is unskillful does not mean, "GIVE IT UP FOREVER AND BASH THOSE WHO DO NOT!!!!" it simply means, to understand it at the most basic means: "what does this do to/for me? why do i keep doing it?" this can help release it's hold on you as well. it is actually an act of compassion to say, "i have found this unskillful, perhaps you too should examine this for yourself in a chance to improve your life." but i would only ever do this when asked, don't think i am standing outside porn shops handing out flyers.
an addiction can creep up on anyone, and indeed, those affected usually have absolutely no idea. this is why they say that acceptance is the first step to recovery. having seen this again and again in myself and those around me, i accept this fact wholeheartedly. the difference between me and a heroin addict is that i have never tried heroin. :winkc: i would say that you are being less accepting by your belief that addiction befalls those who are weak or in some way damaged. this isn't true. the very basic point we will disagree on here is that you can never break an addiction or lessen the hold of attachment by MORE of something. once i saw a documentary on tv of an extremely overweight person (700+) with a food addiction and he said, "how successful would a heroin addict be if they were forced to only have A LITTLE heroin every day?" for me, this put into perspective the hold that the substance can have upon a person.
i just want to say that i accept you as you are and your beliefs and do not think badly of you or look down on you. it could be my perception, but you seem quite upset and frequently seem to derive that i/others are attacking you with our statements. this is just a friendly discussion, no big deal. we may disagree, but we can still be friends here
namaste.
Wow, you can add self righteous to that. This is why I reject most religions because of people like you with polarised views who come across as morally superior. I really thought buddhists would be different but seems many of you are no better than the christians in that regard. And yes I do know all about addiction because Ive been there but Im not naive or stupid enough to blame the substance I was addicted to. I overcame my own addiction many years ago through facing certain issues within myself and not through blaming externals. Of course there are substances etc including porn that can be extremely damaging for people. No one is denying that however people can be addicted to anything. For many food can be just as deadly as heroin. In fact you can live with a heroin addiction your entire life whereas a rampant food addiction can kill you pretty quickly if left unchecked. Where do you get off judging my life or anyones for that matter. Just because you read some religious teachings does not make you more enlightened or a better person of that I am very clear. I cannot understand why you even bother placing that false token gesture "with warmth" at the bottom of your post because it most certainly is not heartfelt. I may not be able to thank you for inspiring me to be a buddhist but what I can thank you for is helping me to remember why organised religion sucks ie-because it produces people like you. Good day.
i'm sorry zania, i don't see what you are so offended by in matt's comment.
unless it's the "thought you were a child" thing. i'm sorry, to be honest, i thought the same thing. i don't mean this as an insult, just that i was shocked to find you had been in a relationship for 10 years (i think you said?). something in the way you ask questions, probably. it's childlike. not in the bad sense, just in the... constant wondering, perhaps? please don't take offense at this.
your response here is exactly why i added the end bit on mine. you seem to think we are attacking you or looking down on you, and i want you to know that's not happening here.
a concept we study in nichiren buddhism is that of the ten worlds. the ten worlds are: hell, hunger, animality, anger, humanity/tranquility, rapture/heaven, learning, realization, bodhisattva, and buddhahood. the very basic explanation is that all of these "worlds" exist within us simultaneously at all times. when we are angry or depressed, the goodness of buddhahood still exists within us. when we are in the state of the bodhisattva, anger still exists within us. this concept is used to explain the reason why two people might experience the same event in different ways. most have a tendency to be trapped within one or two worlds and this can shape our understanding and view of the outside world. it can be like rose colored glasses, but we can also see negativity in things where there is none. feel we are being attacked when we are not. for a long time, i struggled in hell. i was depressed and my life did become a hell. i could not see the good in anything within this mind state. the concept that the other worlds also exist within me helped me to understand that it was a hell of my own design, i could escape if i chose to. just as hell exists within me, so does tranquility and rapture.
an example i liked was given by richard causton in his book, "the buddha in daily life". he described a scene in which two people were driving up the same mountain. it begins to rain lightly and thunder strikes off in the distance.
the first person is quite enjoying the experience. he looks at the mountain with wonder at it's beauty. he notices animals in his environment and feels connection to the world. it begins to rain, he listens to the soft pitter patter on the windshield and feels content. lightening strikes, he is amazed by nature's power.
the second person feels the mountain is menacing. he looks at the winding road and feels distressed. and now, even worse, it's beginning to rain! he sees the dark storm clouds above and wishes for a sunny day, angry that it is not in the cards. lightening strikes and even though it is not near to him, he is startled and feels anxious and irritated.
what is it that makes these two people experience the same event in such different ways? it must be something within him. a mind state can change our perception. it would be nice if we could always view things neutrally, but that is not possible. our minds do tend to muddle everything up. we all would do better to try though. seeing negativity where there is none really doesn't do you any favors. it just makes you disconnected with the world that you feel is always against you.
anyways, you can do what you want with this. i don't expect you to accept it, i just hope you will consider it.
i hope that you find what you are looking for elsewhere.
All of the judging me aside, I think you're revealing something important with these particular words. If one spent time examining more closely how its damaging, and how many parts of the interaction are damaging and why, then perhaps it could be understood why porn is being called unskillful.
The forum replies are rich with insight as to where the troubled spots are, perhaps you're the one preaching morality? There are many causes and effects that lead to the moment of watching porn, but even if I see it as unskillful, I would not consider watching porn immoral. Like smoking is not immoral, but it is unskillful. Similar to porn, I would challenge the notion that for some, smoking is healthy. An addict might try to convince a person that smoking is healthy, and it would be sad, but it would not make smoking healthy.
This hasn't arisen for me because I read in a book that so and so said this and that about porn, or smoking. This arrives from simply looking at all of the side effects without delusion. I apologize if my tone is blunt or abrupt, I mean no offense... I only say what seems to need saying, and I do so with love for you.
With warmth,
Matt
It's really unfortunate, because frankly, aMatt provides some of the most insightful, thought-provoking, compassionate and invaluable posts on this forum. As I said before, I get a trolling vibe from you, and this sort of thing is why... honestly you seem to have come here with your mind made up that religion is bad and Buddhism is the same as all others. You've gone so far as to take a single person as a representation of Buddhism and what it results in, even though said person was simply stating his own personal opinion and Buddhists are all human like anyone else with varying views and values. For all you know, aMatt is only just curious about Buddhism himself and came here to learn about it, like yourself, and knows little to nothing about it. There are undoubtedly Buddhists who don't see porn as unskillful and who even watch it themselves. I personally see it as unskillful, from either side of it, but don't care what others do amongst themselves of their own free will. I don't however see it as inherently "morally wrong." But as said you seem to have come here with the aforementioned agenda, and have found your excuse to not bother investigating the teachings any further and to toss Buddhism aside without giving it an honest chance.
Honestly, I imagine there are very few people who wouldn't see it as unfortunate, whether they're part of a religion or not, that you cannot understand the term "making love." For most people it's like saying they don't understand the meaning of "love" or "happiness." Do you hope others will know love and happiness? Are you patronizing?
Deal with it... there will be those who deny all religion and patronize and look down on you just the same, my friend.
porn is just....porn....
Once you feel good about yourself,
And you sit often...
the urge to watch it,
slowly....
dissapates...
Once you feel good about yourself,
And you sit often..
the urge to necro it,
slowly....
dissapates... [sic]
are they not given to you by culture/society?
these threads make me giggle.
there is no right or wrong.
there are only beings asserting and negating.
right is conditional. wrong is conditional.
buddha this, buddha that.
2. "right" is conditional in that it leads to peace, non-harm & safety (Nibbana). "wrong" is conditional in that it leads to suffering, torment, harm & danger. Buddha taught for peace and not for mental torment
3. exactly, which is why we do not know the Buddha :-/
this thread is one year old now and you returned back to it today
so, if you care, can you share with us how your webcam friend's life has been over the last year
Buddhism is mostly about experience rather than following rules
so how is your friend one year later? happier? still with her boyfriend? more relaxed? got a job promotion?
thanks
Buddhism and ethics are not about rules. They are about the results of actions.
If the girl has become genuinely more happy, content and at peace by her webcaming, then the precepts are wrong, of no benefit or, alternately, not applicable.
Regards
is this an insult, or am I missing something here?
A year allready
She's not with her boyfriend anymore, he gave her up.
She quit the webcam job before that tough. She's still a student, so working fulltime is difficult to manage.
It's hard to tell if she's happier or not. She says it ddidn't make a difference having that job or not, the only reason she quit doing was for her ex-boyfriend.
On the other hand, She has lost her bankcard, passport, bike, and has money problems, in about two months time, after she broke up with the dude.
She's still drinking a lot, partying till she looses all control.
And lately she's having casual sex all over.
I was her boyfriend......
Lost most of the contact with her.
My choice, not hers,
At first she wanted me back.
But, it's for the best of both of us.
If I, didn't start to complain about the job, she would be still doing it.
And somewhere,in the back of my mind, I'm pretty sure she is doing it again. I've found pictures of her, were's she's dressed up all kinky and sexual, to attrect customers online, and she never did that kind of things for me. In fact, last year or so of the relationship she was hardly ever in the mood.
It's easy money, and loads of it. But that's only an assumption, I asked her what her new job is, and she wouldn't tell me.
Anyways, she's happier in life in general, now we're not together anymore,
At least she tells me,
But the last time I was at her place, she was showing me around, like to impress me, and she offered me pie and coffee to stick around (?).
I gave her to feeling I was better then her, by being moral and having values.
That's her ego filling in my beheaviour I guess.
I know for one thing, I'm happier, she was a bad influence, violent, abusive, loud and chaotic and a destructive person.
But perhaps, if she ever finds a new boyfriend, that beheaviour will go away.
I did a test, and I didn't get any diseases from her, so that's good,
I guess I will never know if she will be happy, with or without that job, with or without me, cause I broke all contact.
Dude this sounds familiar to me.
been in an abusive relationship too?
i'm glad i've put a stop to it.
Thought I could change her with compassion.
But I used the wrong kind of compassion I guess.
She has been a great teacher, for that I am gratefull.
It's sexual misconduct.
It was never an insult. I was just pointing out that you necro'd a year old thread. But since you gave us an update now, it seems justified. Typically, necro'ing threads (resurrecting old old threads) is typically frowned upon in forums.
It's good that you ended it. She seemed like bad news. I wouldn't let my girlfriend expose herself online to other men because I would want her to have some self-respect. Using your body in a lusty way shows a lack of self-compassion in my opinion.
me too...
I thought the chaos and abuse was fun and exciting...for a long long time...
I've mistake wisdom, calmness and being at peace for boredom...
It's anything but
@yishai
I can image you've mistaken me for a necro.
But, as I stated,
I've been reading the thread a year long, i've let the discussion live it's own life..
It's a great way to learn, make a statement, and then just shut up and listen to other people...
http://www.mainlinemusic.com/necro_friend_new.jpg
lol....NO
@chaitunadimpalli
thank you for your kindness. I've tried to take care of her a lot. She didn't want me to help. So I ended the relationship. Compassion...has it's limits, I've come to believe that's a part of compassion too.