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Which of the 5 Buddhist precepts do you usually break?

footiamfootiam Veteran
edited July 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Have you perhaps taken an insect's life, take things not given, give in to uncalled for sex, lie and drink the devil's drink?
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Comments

  • well, I have a perfect excuse! We were completely drunk, so we don't even remember doing it!!!!

    :p
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I think taking an insects life is ok as long as its not voluntary. We have pest control bait for mice and things. I eat factory farmed meat. I don't lie or steal. I don't take intoxicants other than coffee and tea. I don't have sex.

    I can feel a greater purity in my meditation and peace of mind since I have purified my ethical behaviour so I think that part of the teaching is true in my experience.
  • Deliberately squishing or swatting bugs is just gross. :p I consider it uncivilized.
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    i drink quite occasionally and have lots of sex. i usually don't kill insects unless by accident, nor do i steal things.
    lots of sex and alcohol! but i never took vow or precepts so :\
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    sex is ok. as long as its not misconduct. no teenage girls mister.
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    just lovely college girls <3
  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    edited July 2011
    the only one I break is the fifth (alcohol; but never to the point of being drunk)... and sometimes I could be more careful with speech.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    i drink quite occasionally and have lots of sex.
    it is impossible for a Buddha to drink and have sex

    but it is possible for an ordinary person (putthajana) to drink and have sex

    :)
    "[1] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to intentionally deprive a living being of life. [2] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to take, in the manner of stealing, what is not given. [3] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to engage in sexual intercourse. [4] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to tell a conscious lie. [5] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to consume stored-up sensual things as he did before, when he was a householder.

    "[6] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on desire. [7] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on aversion. [8] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on fear. [9] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on delusion.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an09/an09.007.than.html

  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    lots of sex and alcohol! but i never took vow or precepts so :\
    i never took vow or precepts either :om:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Keep to topic and answer the questions, folks.

    I for one - and I know, for a fact, many on this forum - suffer from Wrongspeechey-itis.
    And when one person suffers - everybody suffers.
  • If you consider Masturbation Sexual Misconduct then I am guilty. :/

    I am trying to reduce my meat intake as well. :)
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    you can masturbate all you want. sexual misconduct is relative based on the culture/society, but if the parties involved agree on what is occurring then it is okay.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I don't think masturbation is sexual misconduct
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I have already deleted comments from this page.

    The author knows why.

    Cut it out, and grow up.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    I could be more careful with speech.
    the five precepts only include false speech, that is, telling lies (musāvādā) :)

    the other aspects of right speech, such as pleasant, cordial, beneficial, timely, etc, do not fall under the five precepts

  • edited July 2011
    You guys don't think misusing our reproductive organs for our own personal pleasure isn't sexual misconduct?
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    not under the five precepts for laypeople, in general

    but for those who wish to undertake higher training, the precept of no sexual behaviour whatsoever comes under the eight & ten precepts and under the monks 227 precepts

    see this link about eight & ten precepts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Precepts

    not masturbating is often a suitable condition for developing deep meditation & deep freedom

    :)
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    does it make you happy? are you harming anyone?

    i think people should masturbate and have sex more. i feel most people repress their sexuality and thus cause a lot more problems.

    it's okay to feel pleasure and have sex and masturbate. these are all healthy and great things.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2011
    They're not reproductive organs if your not using them to reproduce. Are they?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    @Dhamma Dhatu, I'm afraid I disagree. I am inclined to consider any kind of speech worthy of measuring with the yardstick.

    @tyloson: if it feels good, do it. When in doubt, don't.
    Intention is all.
    There is nothing deploring, condemning or criticising such activities for laypeople.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    @Dhamma Dhatu, I'm afraid I disagree. I am inclined to consider any kind of speech worthy of measuring with the yardstick.
    sure Fede, you are free to develop your own philosophy, but the five precepts only include musavada (telling lies)

    where as the Eightfold Path includes the four kinds of right speech

    kind regards :)
    ‘Katamā cāvuso, sammāvācā? Musāvādā veramaṇī, pisuṇāya vācāya veramaṇī, pharusāya vācāya veramaṇī, samphappalāpā veramaṇī, ayaṃ vuccatāvuso – ‘sammāvācā’

    And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.141.than.html
    The following are the five precepts (pañca-sikkhāpada) or five virtues (pañca-sīla) rendered in English and Pali:

    1. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life

    Pāṇātipātā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.

    2. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given.

    Adinnādānā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.

    3. I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.

    Kāmesumicchācāra veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.

    4. I undertake the training rule to abstain from false speech.

    Musāvādā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.

    5. I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented drink that causes heedlessness.

    Surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Precepts
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Well, as the eightfold path seems to have been developed before the 5 precepts, I'm going with that one....

    And I think any form of speech which baits, provokes, antagonises, insults and sows discord - is 'False'.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    sure, i can empathise with your view, dependent on perspective & intent

    but the eightfold path is for practitioners interested in Nibbana

    where as the five precepts are just rules for layfollowers & society

    :)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Yes, and....?

    The Eightfold path was The primary Teaching of the Buddha.
    The 5 precepts have been adopted and generally taken to be practical for lay-followers and society - but intrinsically, they were originally laid down for monastics - ie, followers of the Buddha, and those seeking Awakening.
    So I think they meld. And I think many would agree, notwithstanding the splitting of hairs.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    hi Fede

    there are no hairs to split

    the five precepts in an independent teaching of the Buddha, distinct from the 8FP

    it is not really accurate to say the Buddha had a "primary" teaching

    sure, his unique & special teaching was certainly the 4NTs/8FP but he did not teach this to all people

    to laypeople, he generally taught only the five precepts, generosity, rebirth, worshipping the Buddha, Dhamma & Sangha, etc

    the Buddha certainly taught the five precents (below) and it was not a later adaptation

    if fact, the five precepts could possibly be a pre-Buddha teaching

    regards

    DD :)
    And how is one an individual who practices for his own benefit and for that of others?

    1. There is the case where a certain individual himself abstains from the taking of life and encourages others in undertaking abstinence from the taking of life.

    2. He himself abstains from stealing and encourages others in undertaking abstinence from stealing.

    3. He himself abstains from sexual misconduct and encourages others in undertaking abstinence from sexual misconduct.

    4. He himself abstains from lying and encourages others in undertaking abstinence from lying.

    5. He himself abstains from intoxicants that cause heedlessness and encourages others in undertaking abstinence from intoxicants that cause heedlessness.

    Such is the individual who practices for his own benefit and for that of others.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.099.than.html
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    *sigh*.

    OK.... :rolleyes:
  • I could be more careful with speech.
    the five precepts only include false speech, that is, telling lies (musāvādā) :)

    the other aspects of right speech, such as pleasant, cordial, beneficial, timely, etc, do not fall under the five precepts

    then the only precept I have broken in a while is alcohol... thanks btw.
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    1. I'm a veg-aquarian. Very pacifist.
    2. I used to be something of a klepto, but haven't stolen anything for a long time.
    3. Happily married. Sex is healthy.
    4. I work in advertising, but believe it or not false speech is very rare.
    5. (Very) occasional drink.

    I'm no angel that's for sure. Who is?

    Buddha definitely helps :) And dharma. And sangha.

    Peace
  • I cooked a whole chicken last night

    I just stole the whole Tiger Army Discography off a torrent

    I rubbed one out this morning thinking of this chick I used to work with

    i can't really think of anything I've lied about right now.

    Last weekend I downed a whole bottle of dry wine and three beers and was hung over for most of the following day.
  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    I break the alcohol and stealing (yarrrr piracy) precepts most frequently. Lies are few and far far between. Sex is always with a committed partner. I never take life, but you can skew my non-vegetarianism as taking life if that pleases you.

    On the plus side, I've been drinking alcohol less frequently, and I never drink til belligerent. Also, I've found less of a need to be stealing music when there are so many cheap streaming options available out there nowadays (spotify, last.fm, pandora, grooveshark, etc.).
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Number Five, and I sell them :/ but only till I get another (nicer) job will I work in a pub. My alcohol intake has been lowered, so improvement there.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I think in your own ways, both Federica and Dhamma Datu are correct.

    Federica, you said, "Keep to topic and answer the questions." Okay, the question asked about the 5 Precepts. And, based on that, my answer for myself would be that I can't remember the last time I broke any of the 5 Precepts...certainly months, and then it would have been a "white lie".

    However, Federica, like you, I look at it in terms of "right speech" as compared to "false speech". In fact, I was talking with a Christian friend the other day and explaining how Buddhism asks us to be accountable for more than "you shall not lie". And under that definition, that is the Precept I break most often.

    The problem I have with the 8 Precepts is that I don't believe in all of them:
    6. I undertake to abstain from eating at the wrong time (the right time is after sunrise, before noon). I have yet to see why this has any significance.
    I undertake to abstain from singing, dancing, playing music, attending entertainment performances, wearing perfume, and using cosmetics and garlands (decorative accessories). I think this is foolish.
    I undertake to abstain from luxurious places for sitting or sleeping, and overindulging in sleep. I think this is foolish and ill defined.

    To each his own, of course.



  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    The last 3 are odd, for sure. But they all point to one thing: simplicity.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No, they point away from distraction and attachment, apathy and complacency.

    Simplicity is the whole of the Dhamma.
  • I killed a bee that flew into the car the other day because my girlfriend is deathly allergic. It made me cry.

    I don't steal anymore, though I used to be addicted to shoplifting as a kid.

    I don't cheat on my girlfriend, but ocassionally masterbate (I'm working on cutting it out entirely, it's hard being bi-sexual and in a committed relationship without some "self-love")

    I haven't had a drink since our anniversary 6 months ago and havent smoked weed in 8.

    I have secrets I'm not comfortable discussing with anybody which occassionally put me in a position to lie. I feel like since I've put certain things behind me that it's not a serious infraction. It's definitely a source of suffering.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    No, they point away from distraction and attachment, apathy and complacency.

    Simplicity is the whole of the Dhamma.
    So, how do you sleep?

  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    edited July 2011
    No, they point away from distraction and attachment, apathy and complacency.

    Simplicity is the whole of the Dhamma.
    Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said, but it looks like you said "No... Yes".

    Simplicity is the whole of the Dhamma. Therefore, the Dhamma points toward this simplicity/itself. The eight precepts are part of the Dhamma. They point toward simplicity. Did I make a logical fallacy in there? I'm quite confused now.

    Distraction, attachment, apathy, and complacency... when you turn away from these, you turn toward simplicity, right?
  • When you turn away from distraction, attachment, apathy and complacency you turn toward attention, renunciation, concern, and vigor.
  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    edited July 2011
    When you turn away from distraction, attachment, apathy and complacency you turn toward attention, renunciation, concern, and vigor.
    I see what you did there :lol:

    Does that mean that the whole of the Dhamma is more than simplicity then?
  • How can you say the whole of the dharma is anything but the path that leads to the end of suffering.
  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    How can you say the whole of the dharma is anything but the path that leads to the end of suffering.
    Touché, good point.

  • The 5 precepts is the minimum basic for being a human.

    This applies socially for mundane life. Or if you believe rebirth, the minimum for keeping the human form.

    Buddhists all likes to talk about how they are tolerant and compassionate, well, the 5 precepts is where it's put into practice.

    When you refrain from killing, your tolerant and compassionate to others
    When you refrain from lying, you do not create gossip and mistrust around you.
    When you refrain from stealing, you respect the property of others
    when you refrain from sexual misconduct, you respect other's feeling and body
    When you refrain from intoxication, you prevent yourself from doing harm to others by doing the wrong thing or saying the wrong thing under influence.

    Since breaking the precepts mostly comes from the lack of restraint when we want to satisfy our own greed for something. It's a very good basic practice.

    The hinderance to keeping the 5 precepts are:

    * Purposely looking lightly over it because you have contempt for rules and whats to to cover up your mistakes infront of other practitioners.

    * Getting over upset and guilty over breaking precepts and think it's the end of the world. Simply notice you have broken the precepts and work to refrain from breaking them again.




  • what's so wrong about alcohol (moderate use)?

    "the difference between a poison and a medicine is its dosage"
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2011
    Even the first beer is intoxicating. I think it is bad because it unhinges the mind a little. In my sangha my lama says that moderate usage is much better thing than overuse. Its accepted to have a glass of wine or two (in my sangha).
  • Even the first beer is intoxicating.
    really? I tought it was something more like a muscle relaxer, anesthesic and depressor of the brain with some side-effects if not used with moderation.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2011
    It affects the prefrontal cortex inducing some amount of euphoria and reduced inhibition. It is what it is ;) I don't have to describe it with big words. You know what it is.
  • It affects the prefrontal cortex inducing some amount of euphoria and reduced inhibition. It is what it is ;) I don't have to describe it with big words. You know what it is.
    hmm... I like my wines and vodkas with moderation! but I will study the health effects... and consider if it is better quitting (even with moderation).
  • There would never be a 3rd drink as long there is no 1st drink. It's like dependent origination. The 3rd drink is dependent upon the 2nd, the 2nd drink is dependent on the 1st. Don't drink!

    It can be hard though. I have been drink-free for about 6 months. I can't believe how big an Arse I had been in the past while drinking. Sooooo embarrassing.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    what's so wrong about alcohol (moderate use)?

    "the difference between a poison and a medicine is its dosage"
    The difference is that alcohol is not a medicine in any dosage. :)

  • I'm nice while drunk :) ...but will never do that again, I prefer to have control about all this so-called vices.
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