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Abortion
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a. murder
b. theft
c. sexual activity
d. certain types of lying
e. alcohol and drugs
?
what about being a soldier, for example, and killing? is this breaking the five precepts?
what about supporting the armed forces? is this breaking the five precepts?
Some of the measures I proposed are standard policy in developed countries (I think I already said that..?). The fact that the US doesn't provide maternity leave across the board, or post-natal leave is embarrassing. We're trailing the rest of the developed world. We do now have sick-child leave, for both men and women, at least in the public sector, I'm not sure how widespread that is. Affordable health insurance for the mothers shouldn't even be an issue. If the US had decent health care coverage (we're trailing the rest of the developed world, again) that issue wouldn't exist.
What does this country have against women? Look at how people want to hobble them: force them to bring pregnancies to term, allow employers to dismiss them for missing work due to pregnancy and baby care (more unemployment, but no gov't bennies if she left work "voluntarily"), no childcare (oh, but there's plenty of state and federal money for incarceration when the unwanted and neglected child grows up), etc. This is starting to look like a conspiracy to keep men employed, and get women out of the workforce.
I still say, give the child to the father to raise, after it's born, if the father is fit for the job. Let's see how popular the abortion ban would be then. Suddenly, the gov't would start paying for nannies, ROFL!
Before we praise to much of how (for example) modern minded European nations are in this regard, perhaps we need to wait and see whether the Euro dissolves over debt issues, often caused by public programs like those you talk about.
First, are you saying the people of a country shouldn't make decisions democratically?
Second, I didn't say a country should or should not give such assistance. I simply said that what government programs -- paid for by taxpayers -- are provided, need to be determined by the will of the people.
Is there waste in government expenditures in all countries? Yes. But keep in mind that every government program out there is thought to be valuable by many people. And that is where the democracy aspect comes in.
You know, when I was a school principal, I often had to speak to my community and convince them of why the school needed additional funds. The superintendent had the same responsibility for the overall school system. Sometimes we got the funds, and when we did I'd say we did a good job of selling our program. And when we didn't, I'd say we didn't do a good enough job, OR it was something the democracy didn't agree with.
And I think here's where you are being a little short-sighted. Millions of people prepare themselves to have babies, have those babies, and raise those babies without an ounce of government assistance. So, when you talk to taxpayers, you're going to have a tough road to hoe. Especially when, at least in this country, there's plenty of assistance out there if one looks for it.
Funny about democracy--I hear Swedes complaining constantly about taxes, and yet, the government just keeps collecting 'em, and giving money away.
These issues aren't so simple.
Do the people follow all those laws...or Precepts...yes, no, sometimes.
Over most of man's civilization, basic laws have come from moral, religious principles.
Who am I to dictate what others should or shouldn't do?
What is a higher goal than morals and ethics?
Somalia I honestly don't know much about. I am aware that the southern part of Somalia lacks a government. Although, African nations are known to be relatively under-developed, whether they have a system of government or not. I'd say that they don't have the resources as of now to build such a nation that lacks a hierarchical social structure.
I said: Well, Syria is going through a transitional government phase. A revolution of sorts.
You said: They are countries where the social fabric has broken down.
I said: So, what you're saying is... because the Syrians are trying to get rid of their tyrannical government, that equals the complete break down of social structure - or the transition from one form to another?
As a personal choice -- i'm a father of two and we're not planning any more, but wow, hope I never have to make that choice. I feel for those who do.
I'm afraid my feeling is that it's a baby. But I don't know if I believe it's a baby at, say, four cells big; I do know I feel it's a baby by the time most people decide to have an abortion.
It's extremely difficult; you don't feel right telling another human what to do, and yet again, you believe they themselves are taking the life of a human.
When we say we "support women's rights," we only mean the rights of the woman killing the baby (my view); we don't mean the rights of the woman (if it's a girl) being killed. If against the odds she manages to make it out of the birth canal, we'd lay our lives down for her; if she doesn't make it out, we happily support ending her life with a sharp instrument.
I'm sorry to be so graphic, and maybe I've gone too far, but on the other hand, this is the reality of abortion. Sometimes I feel that if we don't talk about it in graphic, real-life terms, we'll never be able to figure out the true moral and ethical answers to this question, whatever they end up being.
I feel that the politicians (or, I guess, anyone) glibly advocating for abortion should have to watch a video of one being performed, and then decide. At least that way they are basing their sense of reality on an actual understanding or experience, rather than distant theory.
The human heart and gut instinct can be powerful guides; I think sometimes they are more accurate that anything. I can't imagine 100 people watching an actual abortion, and a significant percentage not altering their opinions. Similar effects have been noted for people who actually have to kill an animal to eat it.
This tells me that far too many decisions are made in favor of ending something's life, without going through at least the basic experiences on which those final decisions should (if ever) be made.
Different times however.
Whether or not a specific abortion is skillfull or unskillful must be ascertained by the mother, guided by compassion, insight, midfulness, and skillful intent. Welcome to samsara, people. Welcome to the life of the householder. Where there is complication, derision, loss, grief, sorrow, hard decisions, SUFFERING. This is why the Buddha explains that to achieve liberation, one must leave the householder's existence and go into homelessness. there is no escaping the complications and difficulties of life as long as one is tied to those very complications.
However, i would hope that there is a broad spectrum of interested parties present, including doctors, Lawyers, women, nurses and religious representatives.
The last being almost certain to wish to take part, for precisely the same reasons we're debating....
but i would imagine that unfortunately, the majority of those discussing matters, would indeed, be 'men'....
And while "debates like this" don't occur in government circles, there is still the public debate that politicians are aware of. After all, the public debate on this issue is primarily fueled by a religious group.