Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
About a month ago, I stopped putting my money in investment funds that may be buying stocks of questionable companies. I had been leaning towards making such a decision anyways, but it was the comments and advice that I received here from various posters at newbuddhist.com that gave the final nudges for me to become firmly resolved in making that decision.
This is why the Buddha repeatedly stressed the value of associating with good people in the spiritual life. It has been pointed out that a wise and compassionate friend is one who, with understanding and sympathy of heart, is ready to criticize and admonish, to point out one's faults.
So I think all this discussion we're having in this thread about whether its good or bad to fish, eat meat or what the first precept really entails is very useful and it can be of great benefit for all of us if we can act as kalyanamittata (dhamma friends) to each other.
Anyhow, as a general comment, I'd like to point out that the Buddhist path to enlightenment is one that really asks a lot from its practitioners. For example, even posting in the "What are you Listening to right now!!!" thread, which seems to be quite popular amongst members here, is "wrong" as it is engaging in idle chatter which is contrary to Right Speech. Is it realistic to expect that Buddhist practitioners including even monks should refrain totally from idle chatter? I'd say that this was unrealistic. But to strive to avoid idle chatter as much as possible is certainly doable and beneficial for the spiritual path. As such, my advice is that with the precepts, we should strive as much as possible to avoid transgressing them and that doing so is beneficial for progress on the spiritual path.
I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that, @karmablues. But as usual it comes down to understanding exactly what the precepts mean and trying to discern what Buddha might think of our world today, and not everyone agrees on what the precepts mean, even the Dharma monks and teachers. That is WHY it even gets sticky to begin with. Of course I understand that killing is harmful, and I accept whatever comes my way because of it. But I still am the one that has to make the call on what I truly believe is the course of least harm because when you eat meat, there is no course of no harm. Only less harm.
My teacher says that it is best to interpret the precepts as broadly as possible. He says even when you feel angry, you should consider that the first precept has been violated because anger can lead to conduct which transgresses the first precept.
I would like to know how many of the posters on this forum have changed their actual behavior in regard to eating meat over the past 6 months of posts about eating versus not eating meat.
And why do these animal lovers keep beating that dead horse?
Dead horses can no longer suffer, they're dead, so beating them is a ok. Now, if they were still alive, that would definitely be animal cruelty!
I would like to know how many of the posters on this forum have changed their actual behavior in regard to eating meat over the past 6 months of posts about eating versus not eating meat.
And why do these animal lovers keep beating that dead horse?
Dead horses can no longer suffer, they're dead, so beating them is a ok. Now, if they were still alive, that would definitely be animal cruelty!
I assume you know that the intent of the saying is that you are wasting your time beating a dead horse.
I would like to know how many of the posters on this forum have changed their actual behavior in regard to eating meat over the past 6 months of posts about eating versus not eating meat.
And why do these animal lovers keep beating that dead horse?
Dead horses can no longer suffer, they're dead, so beating them is a ok. Now, if they were still alive, that would definitely be animal cruelty!
I assume you know that the intent of the saying is that you are wasting your time beating a dead horse.
I assume you know what a joke is? Perhaps not... Or maybe you used to but something happened and now you have a negative view of just about everything. What happened?
it has always puzzled me why we consider it ok to eat certain animals n not others. eg, eating dogs is a no-no in america. but in china n korea, it is considered very nutitious meat.
When stationed in Korea, I used to watch the women coming home from the rice fields with fistfulls of grasshoppers destined for the frying pan. Not a bit of protein goes to waste over there. The theory I have is that if you're starved long enough, you learn to eat anything. The Koreans have had armies marching back and forth on their land for thousands of years. The history of China for the average rice grower isn't much better when you consider the way the peasants were treated by the ruling Emperor and his army.
I would like to know how many of the posters on this forum have changed their actual behavior in regard to eating meat over the past 6 months of posts about eating versus not eating meat.
And why do these animal lovers keep beating that dead horse?
Dead horses can no longer suffer, they're dead, so beating them is a ok. Now, if they were still alive, that would definitely be animal cruelty!
I assume you know that the intent of the saying is that you are wasting your time beating a dead horse.
I assume you know what a joke is? Perhaps not... Or maybe you used to but something happened and now you have a negative view of just about everything. What happened?
Often written jokes don't go over that well on the internet.
They key being that they meant it to be funny. Not that it was actually funny.
Maybe my problem is this environment. Let's see, today I've read that "idle chatter" is a serious violation of the Precepts. That we shouldn't be nostalgic. If I eat a humburger I'm going to Buddhist hell (slight exaggeration there). And on and on. To be honest, I think way too many people on this forum take things way to seriously.
Now now. Everyone has their things that they find important, interesting and so on. What is a major issue to a beginner is a silly question to the more advanced. Lead fishing tackle might seem minor to one person, except in some areas (including where I live) it is a MAJOR issue. Not necessarily for the fish that are hurt by it but because all the water birds, including golden and bald eagles, eat those fish and die from lead poisoning. It's actually a fairly sizeable problem. Now, when you look at other problems in the world is it really a big problem? Nah. But it came up in a fishing thread so no big deal. Small changes do make an impact though and some people can only make small changes.
Most of us don't know when to back off, until we've already gone too far.
Not to try to keep this thread going on and on or anything, but I do have a couple more questions if that's all right.
First, what do you guys think about keeping fish as pets? I happened to be in PetSmart the other day (I don't normally go to places like that and I have mixed feelings about keeping animals as pets, but someone dragged me along) and as I walked past the aquariums, I realized how much I enjoy looking at fish and how much I used to enjoy keeping an aquarium.
Earlier, I had passed by the birds in cages and thought of how pretty they are but that it does seem wrong to cage a bird. With fish, I wonder if their brains can even process that they are in a contained environment. Perhaps not, but it still seems ideal that they would be in the wild and not in an aquarium.
Ironically, not only do I not want to harm fish, but I actually love fish and feel a deep connection to them. Ever since I was a kid, whenever someone asked the question, "what animal would you like to be," I always replied with fish. Their underwater world fascinates me and I just think they are cool in general. Watching fish in an aquarium really relaxes me, but I realize that is a bit selfish.
@I_AM_THAT had asked what I receive from the act of fishing, and I've been meaning to reply. One of the things I believe that I get from fishing is a deeper connection to nature then just say, canoeing or taking photographs. There's something about holding the fish before you release them. I've read quite a bit about fish and I like to inspect them and look for signs of health before releasing them and yes, learning about the feeding habits of fish, enticing them to bite and feeling the fight of an animal causes me to feel a deeper connection to the natural world.
I'm always concerned about the health of the population of fish in a given lake or river, and I want fish to be healthy and plentiful in number. In general, I've found that few people seem to care quite as much about the well being of fish in general and the health of our streams and lakes quite as much as fishermen, and as a group they have done much to preserve the environment. Now, I do realize that this also smacks of hypocrisy, just as much as Ducks Unlimited working to preserve populations of ducks so there will be plenty of ducks to hunt in the future.
My last question (I promise): I recently started selling items on ebay and realized that I have hundreds of dollars of fishing equipment that I could sell. If I'm really going to stop fishing, I may as well get rid of the stuff but I have deep concerns about selling or even giving it away, knowing it will be used to harm or kill fish.
Do you think it would be unethical to sell my lures and equipment, etc.? I now that it's not going to stop people from fishing - they are going to buy it somewhere - but I feel that it's a big like the justification some people use for frequenting prostitutes or viewing pornophraphy: that it's going to happen anyway, or the material is already out there, so what does it hurt? Needless to say, I don't agree with this view and also remain deeply conflicted about my love of fishing and have no one else to discuss this with.
Please forgive my long-winded questions and ramblings on the subject.
My last question (I promise): I recently started selling items on ebay and realized that I have hundreds of dollars of fishing equipment that I could sell. If I'm really going to stop fishing, I may as well get rid of the stuff but I have deep concerns about selling or even giving it away, knowing it will be used to harm or kill fish.
Do you think it would be unethical to sell my lures and equipment, etc.? I now that it's not going to stop people from fishing - they are going to buy it somewhere - but I feel that it's a big like the justification some people use for frequenting prostitutes or viewing pornophraphy: that it's going to happen anyway, or the material is already out there, so what does it hurt? Needless to say, I don't agree with this view and also remain deeply conflicted about my love of fishing and have no one else to discuss this with.
Please forgive my long-winded questions and ramblings on the subject.
I think, @rivercane, as with EVERYTHING else - it depends why you do it.
If you fish the way you do it - with concern for your environment and the fish (and the worms) that's fine.
P.S. I think the only ethical thing you can do with all your fishing equipment is to give it to someone whom you can be sure will treat the fish with the same love and care.
Just for the record, I have a pet small parrot. He's a very happy little guy, and is likely to live 15 or more years (in the wild the life expectancy would be a third of that).
We've kept an aquarium before, learned from our mistakes, but eventually sold the huge tank and filter setup because it took up way too much space. It can be a rewarding hobby. Please read up on it and realize a few extra dollars spent on top quality equipment can save you lots of money and headache later. The biggest mistake is putting too much fish in too small of a tank and not getting a good enough filter system.
Find a petstore that takes care of their tanks, but realize they remove dead fish soon as they see them so you don't know if the one you buy is on its last legs. Or fins in this case. Some of our best fish came from department stores and they all pretty much use the same breeders and importers. But keep the receipt and make sure there's a return policy if it croaks before the week is out or comes down with one of many icky diseases.
The biggest mistake is putting too much fish in too small of a tank and not getting a good enough filter system
I agree. I used to love raising betas and I cringe when I think of the mason jars and other small bowls I kept them in. I've since learned that even betas need a larger setup and benefit from a filter to keep the water flowing.
I was shocked that PetSmart still had betas to sell in those tiny little plastic containers.
I'm not sure always how I feel about pets, either. We have pets, and I adore them but I always feel a bit bad about the fact that we "own" animals. Though we stopped buying them from pet stores and large scale breeders, and only get them from private people who happened to purposely or accidently bred their animals. Our tortoise was a pet store purchase. He will probably outlive my husband and I, lol. We take good care of our pets, they are a part of our family. They add a lot to our lives, and we try to add to theirs. But once I went down the road of loathing circuses and other such animal events, I couldn't help but start looking at pet ownership, too. Not that they are the same in any way of course, it was just a continuation of my thought process.
Anyhow, one thing I thought of from your last post @rivercane, is perhaps it would be beneficial to you (and others) if you did some sort of volunteering at an aquarium or something, where you can see and work with the fish and teach people about them and yet not feel like you are harming them. Lots of cities have aquariums now, they are really fun to visit (though I still kind of feel the same about them as I do about pets and zoos). Just a thought.
We have, in our state, a program called Master Naturalist, where you take a course and get certified and then you can help with all sorts of nature-related projects, including testing water for invasive species, education, and all sorts of things. I am doing it in June, maybe you should see if your state offers something like that.
That is an awesome idea @karasti! I'm asking myself, why didn't I think of that?!
Volunteering at an aquarium would be perfect for me. I would love to work with and help take care of the fish and would be willing to do it for free. There's a nice aquarium about an hour from where I'll be moving to and I could volunteer on the weekends.
I also like the idea of the training course for becoming a naturalist. I would love to do something like that and will look to see if our state has such a program. We probably do since we have such bad problems with pollution and invasive species.
My doctor has been telling me that I should consider volunteer work as it would force me to be around other people.
Today I had to let a fly out as it was trapped in the same room as my enlightened being In the fridge where I am being realised, is pig flesh, slice from a fish etc. I will eat that dead corpse bits, rather than foistering off the karma on a young fox who visits . . . I watered the lawn, a robin came to feed on by brethren worms. Sorry worms, happy robin. If you have pets, be kind to them, I once had a pet African snail which I ate, after his efforts as a 'guard snail' were no longer required. However the intention was always to have him as a dual purpose pet. I took him back to the shop for humane murdering as I was unsure of the procedure. He was taken out the back, I did not see what happened but I heard a lot of banging for quite a while, he must have put up quite a struggle.
Incidentally he tasted disgusting. I am sure there is a knack to the cooking.
Okay, I shouldn't reply to this but I can't resist: I like a solid black cut tail worm, black worm with curled chartreuse tail, or a 6" lizard in either black/blue or pumkinseed. Sorry, that was a terrible thing to say in a Buddhist forum.
In all seriousness, this thread has been very helpful. I gained a lot of insight regarding cut and release fishing (which I used to regard as more ethical than keeping fish).
I'd like to say that since posting this I have gone fishing a couple of times but have realized that one of the main things I used to get from fishing was relaxation from the meditational aspects of fishing. I still love being out in nature but it seems that I don't really need to fish in order to get the benefits.
I'm also of thinking of taking up archery as another relaxing hobby. (Just targets, no hunting).
My Buddhist karate teacher used to go fishing without a hook or bait. You need an excuse to just sit by a river, in this country . . . think of it as speculative rather than operative fishing . . . probably mentioned this already . . .
Archery is great fun! Though the first time I went out, the bow won, hands down. I had a bruise 10 inches long by 5 inches wide on the inside of my forearm. I recommend a forearm guard and long sleeves LOL
I normally get my fishing license in May but so far have not. Just going to sit somewhere on a shore and watching and listening to the wildlife can be a great way to connect, meditate and pass time.
^^ Yes, I've thought of going catfishing with no bait on the hook or just a weight on the line. Around here you also get strange looks if you're just sitting by a river or lake.
@rivercane@Karasti I grew up with archery. As a latch key kid in an upscale (read uptight) community I'd open a window wide and stand on a chair back in the back of the living room where no one could see me, to fire at my teddy bear hidden in the bushes in the front yard. Then I'd saunter out with a weeding bucket to retrieve my arrows when no one was looking. Imagine what folks would say about that today.
^^ Yes, I've thought of going catfishing with no bait on the hook or just a weight on the line. Around here you also get strange looks if you're just sitting by a river or lake.
oh yes, i forgot to mention everybody's favorite. the dolphins. please leave the intelligent helpful creatures alone. how could anyone think about killing or eating dolphins?
^^ Yes, I've thought of going catfishing with no bait on the hook or just a weight on the line. Around here you also get strange looks if you're just sitting by a river or lake.
Of course it's arbitrary. Recently in the news a police officer is being severely condemned for shooting some wild kittens because the owner of the property called and wanted them gone. He made the mistake of doing it in front of the property owner. To read the comments, this man is a mass murderer who should be fired and charged with something.
Now I'm not saying he was right or wrong. The woman who called the animal control should have known there are thousands of unwanted cats in the shelters and the kittens were going to be killed anyway. But the reaction is entirely arbitrary. If this had been a nest of snakes, the owner would have been pleased and nobody would have cared. So what makes kittens more worthy of life than snakes? We like kittens. We don't like snakes. That's life.
^^ Yes, I've thought of going catfishing with no bait on the hook or just a weight on the line. Around here you also get strange looks if you're just sitting by a river or lake.
Of course it's arbitrary. Recently in the news a police officer is being severely condemned for shooting some wild kittens because the owner of the property called and wanted them gone. He made the mistake of doing it in front of the property owner. To read the comments, this man is a mass murderer who should be fired and charged with something.
Now I'm not saying he was right or wrong. The woman who called the animal control should have known there are thousands of unwanted cats in the shelters and the kittens were going to be killed anyway. But the reaction is entirely arbitrary. If this had been a nest of snakes, the owner would have been pleased and nobody would have cared. So what makes kittens more worthy of life than snakes? We like kittens. We don't like snakes. That's life.
I agree that it is pretty arbitrary but at the same time, the intelligence and sentience is obvious in whales, dolphins, etc and has been proven, and observed, time and time again. Not as much so in a walleye or trout so it is easier to accept that we are killing something that doesn't seem to exhibit those qualities that are a little closer to human than we can feel comfortable killing and eating. Though, in other societies, whale hunting is perfectly fine, as is some shark. So, it obviously varies. Just my thoughts.
As for the kittens, I wasn't there so I don't know the truth, but it was my understanding that the problem was the kittens were killed in front of the child of the home owner, which IMO, if that is true was pretty harsh and callous and unnecessary.
I agree that it is pretty arbitrary but at the same time, the intelligence and sentience is obvious in whales, dolphins, etc and has been proven, and observed, time and time again. Not as much so in a walleye or trout so it is easier to accept that we are killing something that doesn't seem to exhibit those qualities that are a little closer to human than we can feel comfortable killing and eating. Though, in other societies, whale hunting is perfectly fine, as is some shark. So, it obviously varies. Just my thoughts.
As for the kittens, I wasn't there so I don't know the truth, but it was my understanding that the problem was the kittens were killed in front of the child of the home owner, which IMO, if that is true was pretty harsh and callous and unnecessary.
Yes, but a lot of people don't find pigs to be good looking animals, as they do with whales or dolphins. I think whales and so on have somewhat of an exotic appeal, they are smart, and they are nice to look it, so it reminds us a bit of ourselves, generally speaking. Something that is big, fat, rolls in the mud, eats garbage is farther removed from that "smart and beautiful" category in our minds. Plus, I think it just has a lot to do with history and what we are used to. People have eaten pigs for quite a long time. If whale had been on the menu where they lived, like it was in some other areas of the world, they wouldn't think twice about eating it.
I'm not saying any of the above is actually TRUE I just think that is how a lot of people see it just based on what I used to think and what people say when I bring it up to them.
I agree. I think most people see pork as a piece of meat of a certain shape or size that tastes a certain way with apple sauce. If they thought about the reality of it they might not buy it at all. Horses are for riding. Bugs are for killing. Whales are for viewing from a high powered inflatable. Most whales are pretty hideous up close, though majestic and mysterious at the same time. If we were hungrier we would eat it all. It would come down to this. Is there a harvestable surplus or not?
Comments
This is why the Buddha repeatedly stressed the value of associating with good people in the spiritual life. It has been pointed out that a wise and compassionate friend is one who, with understanding and sympathy of heart, is ready to criticize and admonish, to point out one's faults.
So I think all this discussion we're having in this thread about whether its good or bad to fish, eat meat or what the first precept really entails is very useful and it can be of great benefit for all of us if we can act as kalyanamittata (dhamma friends) to each other.
Anyhow, as a general comment, I'd like to point out that the Buddhist path to enlightenment is one that really asks a lot from its practitioners. For example, even posting in the "What are you Listening to right now!!!" thread, which seems to be quite popular amongst members here, is "wrong" as it is engaging in idle chatter which is contrary to Right Speech. Is it realistic to expect that Buddhist practitioners including even monks should refrain totally from idle chatter? I'd say that this was unrealistic. But to strive to avoid idle chatter as much as possible is certainly doable and beneficial for the spiritual path. As such, my advice is that with the precepts, we should strive as much as possible to avoid transgressing them and that doing so is beneficial for progress on the spiritual path.
Maybe my problem is this environment. Let's see, today I've read that "idle chatter" is a serious violation of the Precepts. That we shouldn't be nostalgic. If I eat a humburger I'm going to Buddhist hell (slight exaggeration there). And on and on. To be honest, I think way too many people on this forum take things way to seriously.
Most of us don't know when to back off, until we've already gone too far.
Not to put too fine a point on it, pack it in, the both of you.
Grow up.
First, what do you guys think about keeping fish as pets? I happened to be in PetSmart the other day (I don't normally go to places like that and I have mixed feelings about keeping animals as pets, but someone dragged me along) and as I walked past the aquariums, I realized how much I enjoy looking at fish and how much I used to enjoy keeping an aquarium.
Earlier, I had passed by the birds in cages and thought of how pretty they are but that it does seem wrong to cage a bird. With fish, I wonder if their brains can even process that they are in a contained environment. Perhaps not, but it still seems ideal that they would be in the wild and not in an aquarium.
Ironically, not only do I not want to harm fish, but I actually love fish and feel a deep connection to them. Ever since I was a kid, whenever someone asked the question, "what animal would you like to be," I always replied with fish. Their underwater world fascinates me and I just think they are cool in general. Watching fish in an aquarium really relaxes me, but I realize that is a bit selfish.
@I_AM_THAT had asked what I receive from the act of fishing, and I've been meaning to reply. One of the things I believe that I get from fishing is a deeper connection to nature then just say, canoeing or taking photographs. There's something about holding the fish before you release them. I've read quite a bit about fish and I like to inspect them and look for signs of health before releasing them and yes, learning about the feeding habits of fish, enticing them to bite and feeling the fight of an animal causes me to feel a deeper connection to the natural world.
I'm always concerned about the health of the population of fish in a given lake or river, and I want fish to be healthy and plentiful in number. In general, I've found that few people seem to care quite as much about the well being of fish in general and the health of our streams and lakes quite as much as fishermen, and as a group they have done much to preserve the environment. Now, I do realize that this also smacks of hypocrisy, just as much as Ducks Unlimited working to preserve populations of ducks so there will be plenty of ducks to hunt in the future.
My last question (I promise): I recently started selling items on ebay and realized that I have hundreds of dollars of fishing equipment that I could sell. If I'm really going to stop fishing, I may as well get rid of the stuff but I have deep concerns about selling or even giving it away, knowing it will be used to harm or kill fish.
Do you think it would be unethical to sell my lures and equipment, etc.? I now that it's not going to stop people from fishing - they are going to buy it somewhere - but I feel that it's a big like the justification some people use for frequenting prostitutes or viewing pornophraphy: that it's going to happen anyway, or the material is already out there, so what does it hurt? Needless to say, I don't agree with this view and also remain deeply conflicted about my love of fishing and have no one else to discuss this with.
Please forgive my long-winded questions and ramblings on the subject.
If you fish the way you do it - with concern for your environment and the fish (and the worms) that's fine.
P.S. I think the only ethical thing you can do with all your fishing equipment is to give it to someone whom you can be sure will treat the fish with the same love and care.
And when I say give it - I mean for free.
(I will PM you my home address.)
Find a petstore that takes care of their tanks, but realize they remove dead fish soon as they see them so you don't know if the one you buy is on its last legs. Or fins in this case. Some of our best fish came from department stores and they all pretty much use the same breeders and importers. But keep the receipt and make sure there's a return policy if it croaks before the week is out or comes down with one of many icky diseases.
I was shocked that PetSmart still had betas to sell in those tiny little plastic containers.
Anyhow, one thing I thought of from your last post @rivercane, is perhaps it would be beneficial to you (and others) if you did some sort of volunteering at an aquarium or something, where you can see and work with the fish and teach people about them and yet not feel like you are harming them. Lots of cities have aquariums now, they are really fun to visit (though I still kind of feel the same about them as I do about pets and zoos). Just a thought.
Volunteering at an aquarium would be perfect for me. I would love to work with and help take care of the fish and would be willing to do it for free. There's a nice aquarium about an hour from where I'll be moving to and I could volunteer on the weekends.
I also like the idea of the training course for becoming a naturalist. I would love to do something like that and will look to see if our state has such a program. We probably do since we have such bad problems with pollution and invasive species.
My doctor has been telling me that I should consider volunteer work as it would force me to be around other people.
In the fridge where I am being realised, is pig flesh, slice from a fish etc. I will eat that dead corpse bits, rather than foistering off the karma on a young fox who visits . . .
I watered the lawn, a robin came to feed on by brethren worms. Sorry worms, happy robin.
If you have pets, be kind to them, I once had a pet African snail which I ate, after his efforts as a 'guard snail' were no longer required. However the intention was always to have him as a dual purpose pet. I took him back to the shop for humane murdering as I was unsure of the procedure. He was taken out the back, I did not see what happened but I heard a lot of banging for quite a while, he must have put up quite a struggle.
Incidentally he tasted disgusting. I am sure there is a knack to the cooking. Crazy Wisdom Dude B. Simpson (age 10)
In all seriousness, this thread has been very helpful. I gained a lot of insight regarding cut and release fishing (which I used to regard as more ethical than keeping fish).
I'd like to say that since posting this I have gone fishing a couple of times but have realized that one of the main things I used to get from fishing was relaxation from the meditational aspects of fishing. I still love being out in nature but it seems that I don't really need to fish in order to get the benefits.
I'm also of thinking of taking up archery as another relaxing hobby. (Just targets, no hunting).
I normally get my fishing license in May but so far have not. Just going to sit somewhere on a shore and watching and listening to the wildlife can be a great way to connect, meditate and pass time.
I grew up with archery. As a latch key kid in an upscale (read uptight) community I'd open a window wide and stand on a chair back in the back of the living room where no one could see me, to fire at my teddy bear hidden in the bushes in the front yard. Then I'd saunter out with a weeding bucket to retrieve my arrows when no one was looking.
Imagine what folks would say about that today.
but not a whale?
is it becos a whale is huge?
or is it bcos it is a mammal?
what about a shark? where do you draw the line?
tuna and stingray is fine but no sharks and
whale meat for me.
do we set arbitrary standards or is there
some logic behind it?
the dolphins.
please leave the intelligent helpful creatures alone.
how could anyone think about killing
or eating dolphins?
Now I'm not saying he was right or wrong. The woman who called the animal control should have known there are thousands of unwanted cats in the shelters and the kittens were going to be killed anyway. But the reaction is entirely arbitrary. If this had been a nest of snakes, the owner would have been pleased and nobody would have cared. So what makes kittens more worthy of life than snakes? We like kittens. We don't like snakes. That's life.
i appreciate and like your honesty.
As for the kittens, I wasn't there so I don't know the truth, but it was my understanding that the problem was the kittens were killed in front of the child of the home owner, which IMO, if that is true was pretty harsh and callous and unnecessary.
I'm not saying any of the above is actually TRUE I just think that is how a lot of people see it just based on what I used to think and what people say when I bring it up to them.
Horses are for riding. Bugs are for killing. Whales are for viewing from a high powered inflatable.
Most whales are pretty hideous up close, though majestic and mysterious at the same time.
If we were hungrier we would eat it all.
It would come down to this. Is there a harvestable surplus or not?