The Truth That Is Resistant to Definition
anataman
Who needs a title?Where am I? Veteran
When one ponders what one is supposed to achieve in buddhist meditation, and I see this in every post on this and other buddhist websites, there comes a point one tries to describe it. However, trying to collapse the ineffable into a simple definition is quite impossible. However, it is a habit to keep trying to define it. And when one feels that something approximates it and this is discussed, someone will have another view, and an argument ensues, and the truth is lost again, in the din.
So Dzogchen and Zazen, the main strands of ideas I follow, tend to point you into the direction that if you bring your awareness to become concentrated on the present moment, the wisdom is there for you to experience. However, there is a natural tendency to think about what is happening and cling to those ideas and that collapses the world into the duality.
So the aim should therefore be to meditate on everything that is happening, and lo and behold the truth reveals itself, but will always resist attempts at determination.
I have to admit being a thought junkie; but I have come to the realisation, that I have been clinging to my thoughts, even when I thought I was not clinging - and a thought addiction can be quite a challenge to overcome, but with the help of other people I have come to see it.
As an April Fool resolution I am going to seek not to cling to my thoughts and just remain in the present moment as much as possible.
Mettha
Comments
Bravo.
Thoughts, I do think and emotive states and a physical body are unavoidable. However the degree, the noise, the dukkha clinging - that can be cut back to the minimum . . .
Part of the path is this narrowing and how large this 'tiny' internal 'dukkha being' is perceived to be, when exposed . . .
Sorry about the April 1 dancing jig at your expense [lobster hangs head in sham remorse]
The intention to remain in the present also comes from duality.
Our original mind has no such intention.
Could you say what you mean by "original mind"?
Rigpa. Which is realised by a process called sem-de in Tibetan. Or Cittavarga in Sanskrit.
Duplicated post.
This thought is unoriginal as well.
Of course. I am a student of an ancient lineage of teachers. How could it be anything else but unoriginal..
If it were original I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
On matters doctrinal I write nothing that would not receive the imprimatur of my teachers...ever.
From this zafu's view...
Trust in the practice.
A life long intertwining of our ego with our mentality makes thought a questionable guide to follow. The truth is undefinable only as much as it illuminates what the ego sees as chaos. The truth is only undefinable where our attachments fear to tread. A sincere practice shows that the truth is just what the Buddha awoke to.
Spoken like a true follower. Is that good or bad? You'll have to asks an authority figure of some sort to form an opinion.
Everything is both original and unoriginal if you have a certain view @Nevermind. How you identify and view yourself determines how you interpret it... But I don't want to overthink this, as I am a recovering thoughtaholic; it has been 2 minutes since I last clung to a thought.
I hope I am a true follower.
I realised a long time ago that I would get nowhere otherwise.
But not ' an authority figure of some sort' .. a real Dzogchen master.
You may have mentioned it before but who is the Dzogchen master you refer to @Citta?
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.
SO this is why I get where you are coming from 'most' of the time.
Who would you be without your thoughts? Think about it.
I know, I was playing a fool @pegembara - hence the fools resolution to give them up.
Seriously though, I did a meditation today on not clinging to my thoughts. It only wound me up because then I was being aversive. lol. I then let them be.
Then something happened, I entered a deep state of meditation and my thoughts were describing it for me. It showed me that my ears were listening with heightened awareness, my visual apparatus was working similarly and what I saw was very interesting to behold, and there was nothing bounding my awareness, other than the environment I was in. It was actually a fairly blissful state to let the thoughts be in equanimity with the state of meditation. To be at the point of contact with the skandhas is illuminating to say the least. I would highly recommend it to anyone who thinks their thoughts are something they 'should give up or let go'. You have to let them be, without attachment or aversion, and see how they project onto and label the forms. As I said, illuminating it was. lol
I thanked them for it afterwards. They said I was welcome, so we're good friends now, I have asked them to point out some other aspects of dharma for me next time we sit down together. They were more than happy to be of assistance.
Mettha
Some might think that last comment deluded.
I think some may recognise it as the magic of the illusion. lol
To become the awareness, the knowing, of phenomena.
Meditating (at least objectless meditation) is doing the same with conscious intent.
Eventually it just is.
So where have you gotten to?
That is a sort of authority figure.
This thought, for instance, is far from original.
No, your purpose ultimately determines how you interpret it.
Good luck with that.
My purpose its to end dukkha, otherwise I am wandering in the Neverglades... But you know that don't you @Nevermind. Oh never mind!
Mettha
The fact is any one can make one or another appear like a fool, with empty words. The question is can you make one or another appear wise with the same words? Hmmm. Pondering the imponderable again. lol
You are making my point for me, be careful it is so fine and sharp, that it may pass right through you and you won't notice it.
Mettha ha ha ha!
I > @anataman said:
I am sure not that is true anataman. I have seen no evidence that Nevermind a has any interest at all in any aspect of Dharma. Just in knocking and sneering. Its a weird negative hobby.
@Nevermind
I do hope that your focus on everyone elses Dharmic failings will one day include your own.
The weight of your responsibility for everyone elses delusions might be undeserved.
Howz that working out so far?
But that would be game over @how..not what Nevermind wants at all.
Personally I am going to end his games as far as I am concerned by not answering any of his posts again.
This only expresses either a mild case of myopic vision, or more likely your own 'weird' hobby. You may fool most people, Citta, but you don't fool everyone.
I just ask questions, How, in order to understand what people are talking about.
It is working well. How kind of you for asking.
Now do you get the answers you are seeking?
When I post about something that can't be defined, I am really circling around it, and soak up whatever emanates from the query I put into it, so that on its return it will inform me... In its own way.
Always, there is a barrier of ignorance, that denies me what I seek. So questioning reveals my ignorance, and yours, so how do you get to truly know yourself?
Be yourself? Hmmm
I am.
Mettha ha ha ha
@Nevermind
No, you consistently miss read and miss represent what people are printing.
You do so in order to twist their intended posts into something they are not.
While hoping that this behaviour is an optional choice for you, until I see some changes in it, I will not be interacting with anymore of your postings.
Never mind @Nevermind, I will still talk to you on the way to the unspeakable silence . . .
The way we allude, enact, enable the hearing of the question that can not be asked is through the subjective. The subjective is always limited by our capacity and awakening or lack of it . . .
the king is dead, long live the fly . . .
Again and again we ask if a fly can be our teacher or a vajra crown wearer, or Princely ancients such as Shakyamuni or our own cushioned practice. The questions are endless and the answers too.
or to put it another way . . . well there may not be another way that I know of . . .
and now back to the seating arrangements . . .
I would say by paying attention, simply.
Then pay attention to this:
Your butt is missing!
Can't see it? then you need to learn to prostrate your self...
Still can't see it?
Lol
xxx
Printing? Anyway, if this were true you could show an example.
From what I've seen you already don't answer difficult questions. And I am interested in difficult questions.
Uh, is that a problem?
@Nevermind why can't you find what you are looking for? is there something underlying all this and would like to speak about it. PM me if you don't want to share with others.
Where are you located btw?
Metta
Like the crustacean says, questions are endless.
What need is there for privacy, is curiosity shameful in Buddhism?
I'm right here @anatman. Where are you?
Then what went wrong in your life? Direct question, straight to your heart.
Let your heart answer, not your deluded mind, publicly, I'm curious?
Metta
Are you serious? What goes wrong in anyones life? Because I'm curious means that something is wrong in my life?
My life isn't any wronger than anyone else's.
No?
I'll let it be then, although I now know you cannot be trusted to answer from the heart, avoiding the question! You can't even answer a simple sincere question without bitterness and hatred spoiling any sincere message you might have to relate.
Why are you a troll, and not engaging in anything meaningful other than tearing at everyone, questioning their questioning. If you write like one, smell like one, taste like one, etc. You're just damaged.goods. How did it happen, that's a story I'd like to hear. You're good at appearing to tear down the veil, but all you do is put another up, so you can tear that one down, and another. Infinite regression, is an infinite loop. So in my opinion you are damaged.goods. How did it happen, that's a story I'd like to hear. You are still welcome to share it.
When I hear something that resembles one hand clapping coming from you, i'll gladly raise my hands to you in gassho, until then I will no longer entertain you. Clap
Did I just do that. lol
My life is wrong in comparison to yours? Okay.
And you can be trusted to answer the question as asked? Then let's see it.
Bitterness and hatred? Are you serious? And how is that a simple, much less sincere, question?
If we've not discussed anything meaningful then why do you seem so upset?
For some a question is not a tearing. It can be an opportunity for understanding.
Just because someone may have a different view than you do that doesn't make them bitter, hateful, or not actually interested in the discussion.
We are all damaged in the way that you mean.
Are you asking what happened in my life that makes me curious about others views and why I ask questions?
I'm not sure what you mean by "tear down the veil."
Most generous of you.
Far from it. The qualities that others attribute seem reflective of 'this is what this means if I does it'. When this is not the motivation, then the question and answer is what? A problem? A question? An example? Does that need further questioning?
I'm not zen enough to understand.
Well, there you go. You've driven off all the talent. All you have left are a wacky crustacean and an intellectually stunted robot to play with.
Sane? :P
Anataman's talent is wasted on us, anyway.
Keep going. Think of it as a zen koan.
Speak for yourself. No, seriously... Man up, and speak for yourself.