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My Problems with being a bodhisattva and "humility"

I am trying to reconcile my Catholic faith with my faith in Nichiren Buddhism.
I want to reach Nirvana one day and become a Buddha. I want to be a Buddha so that I can be an example to other people of kindness and love.
However, in my Catholic faith, their is something called "humility" and that means that you can't compare yourself to God. For some reason in my mind, when I think of attaining Buddhahood, I just can't separate attaining it from wanting to become God-like (which is a grave sin in Catholicism, as far as I know).

Is my perception of Catholic humility even relevant to my Nichiren faith? I've had more faith in Shakyamuni than I've had in Yahweh for a while, so I haven't studied the Catholic Catechism.

Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    There is no worry in Buddhism about becoming sinful in a way of being Buddha-like or comparing yourself to Buddha. Buddha was a man, no more, no less. He was not a god. He was just a person who realized the truth and laid a path for us to learn how to do it, too. We are exactly like Buddha, and it is just fine to emulate him.

    There are also no grave sins (or sins at all) in Buddhism. Just things we do unskillfully because of our attachment or aversion to various things. There is no judge or jury in Buddhism. Just you.

    yagrTheEccentric
  • RodrigoRodrigo São Paulo, Brazil Veteran

    Maybe if you try very hard to attain Buddhahood you will realize the meaningless of your efforts. Then you will know humility, and then you will reach nirvana.

    Hamsaka
  • While comparison between Buddhism and Christianity may be a long and tricky subject, your particular point about humility does not seem to be a difficult one.

    The whole point of Buddhism is that "I" does not exist as a self-sufficient and self-contained entity and it is our belief to the contrary that causes suffering. What we call "I" is a result of coming together of various conditions, an interplay of myriads of forces. As those conditions change, so does the "I". That's a pretty humble way of looking at yourself! At least Christians have souls that may be judged "bad" or "good" by God but Buddhists have nothing.

    As for "attaining Buddhahood", that is one pompous phrase that is apparently throwing you off, but what does that really mean? I think what that really means is understanding that this "I" that I think I am is a figment of my muddy imagination, completely unrealiable and pregnant with miseries and frustrations of all kinds. Not so much intellectually (easy) but living my life according to that understanding (hard).

    The more I walk the Buddhist path, the less I want things for myself, be they objects or experiences. That's because as I practice, I see that my precious personality is a crazy soup of seemingly random ingredients, while stuff is being thrown into the kettle and pulled from it all the time. I see that I need to step back from the kettle and watch it carefully rather than feverishly stir it, as is my habit. So I become disenchanted with what I used to chase or flee and, therefore, calmer.

    Finally, if I am less preoccupied with lining up my ducks in a row just right, what do I do with the freed up time and energy? I become much more open to "others" and the world "out there". I strive to be helpful to the moment and I am less fearful of trying new ways. With the messy little "me" not in the way as much, I am freer to engage with whatever is presented before me more fully and more harmoniously. "I" is "they" and "they" are "I" and the distinction is a false one. Whatever I do with such understanding and whoever I do it for, diminishes suffering. They use the word "compassion" for that.

    Does this make me God-like? Part of such awakening, in my experience, is an ever-growing sense of wonder and amazement. What am I amazed by? I don't really know but I get the sense that it's infinitely bigger than I'll ever know. It nourishes me but I do not possess it and I don't become it. To me, that is God, stripped of the dogma.

    lobsterJeffrey
  • ToraldrisToraldris   -`-,-{@     Zen Nud... Buddhist     @}-,-`-   East Coast, USA Veteran
    edited April 2014

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68‌ Becoming enlightened isn't becoming godlike. Whatever lack of humility you have right now... enlightenment will cure that. Enlightened beings are the most humble and kind people you will ever meet, because they've eliminated or transcended the ego that has to puff itself up with delusions of grandeur. Have you ever seen videos of the Dalai Lama? Most down-to-earth person, even though he's the spiritual leader of Tibet.

    Jesus is also often portrayed as very humble, hanging out with beggars and prostitutes and sick people. Those who are full of themselves don't associate with the common man; those who see no essential difference between themselves and others... do.

    Jeffrey
  • yagryagr Veteran
    edited April 2014

    Your Bible holds the words, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as the Father is perfect."

    But, according to Catholicism, only God is perfect.

    So, you either file that particular directive under 'recreational impossibilities' in which case the Bible is simply a list of suggestions - some doable, some not OR you believe it to be a sacred text by which you live your life by in which case you go about becoming God.

    There is also a piece in Revelations that says, "If ye shall follow these commandments perfectly, you shall be made a pillar in the Kingdom of Heaven and ye shall go out no more."

    It does rather beg the question, "Where were you going out to before you became perfect?" My first guess was going out for ice cream but the more I thought about it, the more I decided that this was the Bible's description of reincarnation or rebirth.

  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68 said:
    I am trying to reconcile my Catholic faith with my faith in Nichiren Buddhism.

    If you can find the way, more power to you.

    Unlike Fede, I believe it's possible to reconcile Buddhism and Christianity. The reason is, I have a number of friend who are Buddhists who came from a Jewish background. It's a common occurance, actually. There's even a word for it - BuJew. They are sucessfull in being primarily Buddhist but still observe high holy days and other occaisions. A also have a friend who does well reconciling Mormonism and Buddhism - even took both Refuge and Bodhisattva vows. If they can do it so can you. How you do that is up to you.

    I want to reach Nirvana one day and become a Buddha. I want to be a Buddha so that I can be an example to other people of kindness and love.
    However, in my Catholic faith, their is something called "humility" and that means that you can't compare yourself to God.

    As others have pointed out, Buddhahood is not Godhead.

    Is my perception of Catholic humility even relevant to my Nichiren faith? I've had more faith in Shakyamuni than I've had in Yahweh for a while, so I haven't studied the Catholic Catechism.

    As others have pointed out as well, this should not be a problem.

    vinlynJeffrey
  • I think your problem is mostly how you view the Bidhisattva path. It is a path of service to others; of putting the needs of all beings before your own. That's not pride.

    ToraldrisJeffrey
  • ToraldrisToraldris   -`-,-{@     Zen Nud... Buddhist     @}-,-`-   East Coast, USA Veteran

    @Chaz First time I've heard BuJew, though I've heard JewBu/JuBu (rolls off the tongue easier).

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    I think the key is to seeing Buddhism and another "religion", not as religions, but as philosophies where much wisdom is found.

    Chaz
  • Great advice guys xx

    I want to reach Nirvana one day and become a Buddha.

    Cool.

    So you are already a Buddha, just like Christ is within you. Fun eh . . .

    I want to be a Buddha so that I can be an example to other people of kindness and love.

    Good to have goals.

    Being kind and loving, compassionate if you will, is something to practice as much as one can practice.

    Jeffrey
  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    @AldrisTorvalds said:
    Chaz First time I've heard BuJew, though I've heard JewBu/JuBu (rolls off the tongue easier).

    Same thing - Buddhist Jew or Jewish Buddhist.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68 -- Be patient with your aspirations. Hope and belief can inspire action and action/experience leave hope and belief behind. But there needs to be patience.

    Consider: Claiming to want to become a Buddha means that at the moment you imagine you are not. But claiming not to be a Buddha presupposes that you already know what a Buddha is ... how else could you say what a Buddha is not? The only way to know that for sure is to be a Buddha.

    Claiming not to be God means you know who God is and the only way to know that for sure is to be God. Books and texts and wise sayings and hymns are all very nice, but can never bring about a rooted understanding.

    If you knew how to play the piano and a man approached you saying he knew too because he had read a hundred books, been to a hundred concerts, or dusted a hundred baby grands, what would you think? Would you welcome him as a fellow piano player?

    Be patient with your aspirations, whatever they are. Let them inspire. Let them bring hope. Let them strut their stuff ... but don't be fooled.

    Gently but firmly, practice whatever it is you choose to practice and never give up. Don't expect anything to happen ... just practice and see what happens.

    Best wishes.

    Chaz
  • Buddha was humble because he loved people more than he regarded himself as with power. Buddha had let go of: power, sex, and money. He was a holy man.

  • OP just read your, OP.. and have not read any responses FYI. You may not understand this yet but listen up.

    You cannot be a bodhisattva or Buddha, that would imply becoming something, a self, creating an identity. This leads to suffering.

    Research the workings of Ajahn Chah on youtube, manly an interview done by the BBC where he explains that if you want to reach Nirvana, you must not want to reach it in the first place. Striving equates to suffering.

    Go back to the basics, 4NTs, 8fold path, meditation, you seem to be getting wayyyyy ahead of yourself here, 'i want to be a Buddha'

    Chazsndymorn
  • footiamfootiam Veteran
    edited April 2014

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68 said:
    I am trying to reconcile my Catholic faith with my faith in Nichiren Buddhism.
    I want to reach Nirvana one day and become a Buddha. I want to be a Buddha so that I can be an example to other people of kindness and love.
    However, in my Catholic faith, their is something called "humility" and that means that you can't compare yourself to God. For some reason in my mind, when I think of attaining Buddhahood, I just can't separate attaining it from wanting to become God-like (which is a grave sin in Catholicism, as far as I know).

    Is my perception of Catholic humility even relevant to my Nichiren faith? I've had more faith in Shakyamuni than I've had in Yahweh for a while, so I haven't studied the Catholic Catechism.

    Maybe, there is no humility at all in wanting to be a Buddha and be an example to all. That is provided if you think of Buddha as being in a higher caste than other people. Or if you think of Buddha as God-like. Buddha is a human. He was in the history book as a person. Can't say the same about God.

  • edited April 2014

    Thank you for all of your responses. I have read all of them and they have helped me. I think I will simply do as Nichiren says: have faith, practice Buddhism (chant) and study its precepts. As for Catholicism, I will do as I see fit. I have many issues with Catholicism and have had many issues with it ever since I converted, but there are things I can't let go of, such as the Transfiguration of the bread and wine. While I have belief and faith in the Eucharist, I question the validity of the Transfiguration because it is impossible for a piece of bread and and a cup of wine to become in essence a human and in appearance bread and wine. My Buddha-nature tells me that this doesn't make any sense. I only have faith that God will take away my sins through the receiving of his body and blood as He has told us in the Bible. Jesus most commonly spoke in symbols, "Take and Eat, this is my Body and Blood" symbolized the prophecies of his slaughter. I see the Catholic Church as a huge culmination of traditions and texts and councils that have nothing to do with Christ's true intentions. I suppose what I really want to be in terms of Christianity is a "Jesuist", haha. That, however, is a whole other topic that newbuddhist can get into if they wish. Yeesh, the whole religion feels more like a messy bog of tradition than it does an institution of faith and hope.

  • edited April 2014

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68 said:
    Jesus most commonly spoke in symbols, "Take and Eat, this is my Body and Blood" symbolized the prophecies of his slaughter. I see the Catholic Church as a huge culmination of traditions and texts and councils that have nothing to do with Christ's true intentions. I suppose what I really want to be in terms of Christianity is a "Jesuist", haha. That, however, is a whole other topic that newbuddhist can get into if they wish. Yeesh, the whole religion feels more like a messy bog of tradition than it does an institution of faith and hope.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that Catholicism, and to a degree Christianity in general seems to be rather delusional.

    Toraldris
  • ToraldrisToraldris   -`-,-{@     Zen Nud... Buddhist     @}-,-`-   East Coast, USA Veteran

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68 said:
    I guess what I'm trying to say is that Catholicism, and to a degree Christianity in general seems to be rather delusional.

    I feel like you should win a prize or something.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2014

    You are by no means the only Catholic who finds this concept of the Transfiguration hard to digest - and I use the term advisedly.

    But when you consider the billions of Catholics who also use birth control, have sex before they're married, and happily indulge in Pagan Ritual when celebrating Christ's birth and crucifixion/resurrection, it's not difficult to see that much imposed dogma is either ignored or watered down.

    It depends really, when you think about it, what you think when it all comes down to The Nicene Creed:

    Do you adhere to all of it as THE fundamental pivotal point of your Catholic faith?

    Because as a catholic, this is far more important for you, as a statement of your faith, than belief in the Transfiguration.

    (incidentally, when I attended a RCatholic convent school, we were expected, during mass, to sing it, in Latin.
    I used to enjoy it, but not for its content - more for the beauty of the Latin written word, and the melody of the music.....)

  • Aspiring_BuddhistAspiring_Buddhist Seeker of the Buddha Within WA Veteran

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68‌

    Hmm...

    I'm not an expert on either religion, but I can tell you, as others have, that The Buddha, or any other Buddha, was a normal human being who became enlightened and freed of suffering - that is to say, free of cravings rooted in selfishness and being free of the pain of those sufferings that went unfulfilled.

    There is a Buddha seed in all of us - we've all the potential to become a Buddha. There is no lack of humility in believing one can be a Buddha. Becoming a Buddha is actually obtainable, unlike becoming an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing, and immortal being who can create universes and realities on a whim, and send them back to oblivion with a wink.

    You said: "I've had more faith in Shakyamuni than I've had in Yahweh for a while, so I haven't studied the Catholic Catechism."

    You should study that. You said you're trying to reconcile your Buddhist and Catholic beliefs, but you stated you have more faith in Skahyamuni than Yahweh.

    I think if you're trying to find a balance between the two, you should read the scripture of both religions. I'm not saying you're wrong, or that you can't be both or anything, nor am I critiquing your desire to have both - but you must try to understand both.

    It is hard to bring balance to both in your heart, if you've not given them balance in your mind.

    Study Catholicism and Buddhism. I think then you can find the answer to your question.

    Hope this helps. Let us know how it goes.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    ^^^Precisely^^^.

    Ultimately, what others believe, perceive, think or claim to know, is not your business.

    your business is to focus solely on the dilemma before you.

    lobsterRodrigoVastmindyagr
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @Chiisai_Pholcidae68 said:
    I guess what I'm trying to say is that Catholicism, and to a degree Christianity in general seems to be rather delusional.

    Delusion is in the eye of the beholder. Really, everything our mind perceives is out of delusion.

    ChazInvincible_summer
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    well......not EVERYthing......

  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    @federica said:
    well......not EVERYthing......

    Name something?

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    the dhamma....? would that count?

  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    actually the Dharma rises and disolves. It's discovered then forgotten. Those who turn the Wheel of Dharma arise and disolve. The Dharma is what comes from the realization of our own ignorance. It's a part of samsara. A product of delusion. A figment of our imagination.

    Our clinging to Dharma as if it was something static, unchanging and unchangeable is often mistaken for the Dharma itself and that IS delusion.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    life's a bitch, huh....? :D

    lobsterInvincible_summerKundo
  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    @federica said:
    life's a bitch, huh....? :D

    It is what it is.

    Cinorjer
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    true. I have that as my signature, elsewhere.....

  • @Chaz said:
    It is what it is.

    ...Said Honey Boo-Boo's mother.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    did you read my post above, @Chiisai_pholcidae68? With regard to the Nicene Creed?

    I'd be interested in your reply.

  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    >

    ...Said Honey Boo-Boo's mother.

    Well that means just about zilch ........

  • I guess what I'm trying to say is that Catholicism, and to a degree Christianity in general seems to be rather delusional.

    "Forgive me Father for I have thought"

    Oh dear. You may be right.

    However you still get Easter eggs - yum.

    You can study the words of the great Catholic mystics who attained enlightenment despite institutional delusion. Do you think a man/superman died for your 'sins' or you can 'die' from your sinning?

    Perhaps you can explain how delusion is a part of the path to truth?

    Mr Cushion says 'hi'

    yagr
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Chaz said:
    Well that means just about zilch ........

    @Chaz, Incorrect.
    it is absolute total Zilch.
    Hence my subsequent question to 'him'. which also received 'zilch' response.

  • Read "Cutting through Spiritual Materialism" by Chogyam Trungpa you may find your answer.

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Chaz said:
    Same thing - Buddhist Jew or Jewish Buddhist.

    Actually there is a slight difference. A Buddhist Jew is IME a practising Jew who incorporates some of Buddhism whilst being an observant or conscious Jew. A Jewish Buddhist is one who may be Jewish culturally or a secular Jew who's main spiritual path is Buddhism. I fall into the second category and classify myself as a JuBu. To most it doesn't/won't matter, but to JuBu's and BuJu's it does.

    In metta,
    Raven

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    If the OP is still reading this thread (@Chiissai_pholcidae68) Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh may be helpful too.

  • atiyanaatiyana Explorer

    @karasti said:
    There is no worry in Buddhism about becoming sinful in a way of being Buddha-like or comparing yourself to Buddha. Buddha was a man, no more, no less. He was not a god. He was just a person who realized the truth and laid a path for us to learn how to do it, too. We are exactly like Buddha, and it is just fine to emulate him.

    There are also no grave sins (or sins at all) in Buddhism. Just things we do unskillfully because of our attachment or aversion to various things. There is no judge or jury in Buddhism. Just you.

    Actually the Pali texts have him as saying that Buddhas are above gods.

  • atiyanaatiyana Explorer

    @federica said:
    I will tell you this, because i believe it to be absolutely true;

    You can hold onto Catholicism as your primary vocation, and incorporate Buddhism, quite freely.

    you CANNOT hold onto Buddhism as your primary vocation, and incorporate Catholicism to any huge degree.

    If you wish to pursue Catholicism as your Religious calling, then Buddhism will be no hindrance whatsoever.

    If you wish to pursue Buddhism as your Religious calling, then at some point, you will have to lay Catholicism aside, for its greatest part.

    I agree with this, especially considering that the Buddha said if there is a god/gods, then a Buddha is beyond it.

    With this said about 30% of Buddhists believe in a god, and often for different reasons than Christians do. For example there are deva realms in which there is a Buddha-like being that emerges with the formation of the realm itself, it is called the "great empty one", and the whole world system revolves around learning from this great god-like being. This entity is called great-empty one because it has fully exhausted all karma, so is completely empty, and it primordially emerges along with the conditioned world-system. This isn't to be confused with the brahma realm containing a conditioned being which is refuted in the pali texts, it is instead found in mahayana texts that go into extreme detail concerning various realms.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Have you experienced these realms @atiyana?

  • atiyanaatiyana Explorer

    @anataman said:
    Have you experienced these realms atiyana?

    I was spontaneously introduced to the bardo trances/visions, (including a very intense experience with visions of a forceful deity), which are very related, but not exactly the same as the solidified realms themselves, over the course of a couple months, very suddenly and without warning, with no knowledge of Buddhism or what was going on. It was extremely intense and difficult, confusing, and set off a chain of events that eventually led me to Buddhism. I don't really want to diminish the experiences by writing only a few sentences, as to appreciate what was occurring requires a bit of long-winded explanation. If you wish me to go into detail, I will.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    I am interested in your view - please go on

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