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Spirituality and religion
Zenni
Veteran
How do I explain the difference between spirituality and religion "simply and accurately"?
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Do you really need to explain either simply and accurately?
Live them instead.
Religion is where humanity says that that there is something larger than us.
Spirituality is experiencing that.
Or, associatively from @how, one of the possible roots of the word "religion" is the Latin, "religare," which means to bind. From this point of view, there have to be at least two things -- one of which may be bound to the next. Man to god, for example. In this meaning, then, the underlying axiom is separation or the possibility of separation... and the follow-on that what posits bringing together underscores and nourishes its apart-ness. [You find the same conundrum in "beliefs," which nourish the very doubts they may claim to vanquish.]
Spiritual life, as far as I can figure out, does not fall into this honey trap. Not-two is not exactly right any more than not-one is.
@DhammaDragon and @genkaku - thank you.
@how - I need to explain it to a young one so I need to make sure I am in the correct understanding.
"Religion is where humanity....
Spirituality is experiencing THAT"
Who/what is THAT.
Religion is like talking about getting a candy bar. Spirituality is eating it.
@genkaku - "... to bind.... Man to God, for example...
Simply and accurately -
Religion:
In every religion, there is a God (or Gods) @how something larger than us.
Spirituality:
I'm still stuck
@genkaku > @genkaku said:
Saw this after I posted the above.
So...
Religion is talking about God, reading his words (bible), wanting to be with God.
Spirituality is "I am (already) with God"
Is this accurate?
I wouldn't say God. To me, Buddhism is a religion. There is no God.
I guess to me, the difference is religion is an organized, man-made construct to (hopefully) aid us in experiencing spirituality. Some people need it, some don't. Some are perfectly happy and able to be spiritual without participating in a structured religion.
I've never had a reason to differentiate to my kids that way, but generally speaking I've always explained spirituality as living true to who you are. And that religion is something people practice/participate in to give them tools to learn how to do that. But it really varies a lot. Because Christians I am friends with would have a totally different answer.
Just tell them it's a BIG subject and that they'll understand it some day.
{J/K}
I don't know, I don't see them as different things!
@Zenni
1. Go to your local convenience store.
2. Buy a candy bar.
3. Eat it.
Then you tell me....
"How do I explain the difference between spirituality and religion "simply and accurately"?"
They're spelt differently ???
spirituality is dogma-free, and doesn't involve an elite authority structure controlling/approving beliefs and practices.
@Zenni, you asked a good question. It would have been nice to see more thoughtful replies.
Religion is 'belief' and Spirituality is the 'practice'
..
@ Zenni
Perhaps you could explain..How young?...and what are the circumstances that require this need to explain it?
This really sounds like the start of a widening conversation.
In Buddhism religion is the outer things: Statues, monks, meditation, temples etc.
Spirituality is what they are for.
@how - thank you for much
16 years old, Christian
Strongly believe in God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Attends bible study from the age of 2
Prays and reads the bible everyday
Anger. Bitterness.
One example: when she was 12, preparing for the final year examinations...
Dad promised if she gets good results, he'll bring her to Australia.
(Her results - always excellent)
That year, she came up third in the whole cohort of 400+ students.
Daddy, are you proud of me?
No reply
Daddy are you proud of me?
No reply
Daddy, I'm asking, are you proud of me? (In tears)
Dad nods his head
--------no Australia--------
Year after year after year, at prize giving award ceremony, dad was never in school to witness.
Recent conversation with her...
Did God finally give you His Peace
etc
I have to be cautious because I don't want to "mess her up".
The bible teaches God is the only way,
How then can I introduce spirituality to her.
Namaste
Zenni
Oh wow @Zenni, that is a tall order, but I think you can handle it. Just write your 'speech' down - points you want to touch on - you have a good heart and I think it will be important to both of you to 'help' her understand stuff. Point one - talk to her from the heart - I know that won't be a problem. Do you know her father enough to figure out why you think he treated her like that?
Why is that your remit? Is it her mission to introduce the 'power of Christ's peace' into your life. How would any non-Christian feel about that? Would it be intrusive and presumptuous perhaps ...
Religion is what we impose on others.
Spirituality is what we accept in others.
@karasti says it better in the following post ...
A 16 year old is smart and old enough to comprehend most of what has been said here. What is the best route to take is going to have to be up to you do decide, @zenni. Be open and honest and from the heart, kind and compassionate and never accusing towards God or her religion or her father.
Whenever I have difficult conversations with young people, one of the things I almost always ask them is "What are you hoping to accomplish?" It gives them something to think about, and keeps you from a place of accusation or power struggle. .
From her point of view, God is the only way. But God is also part of, and within in her. that is what spirituality is, to the Christians I know who talk about it.
@Zenni
Hmmmm.
You are living amongst a fundamentalist family, who are hostile to your Zen choices and you are considering teaching something of that to an unhappy 16 year old Christian teenager who they probably know.
This is dancing in a minefield!
That 16 year old has a dick of a Christian dad, which describes much of religion.
You are a Zen practitooner who is exploring your own spirituality.
I think you just being a caring respectful human to her, is all the teaching she needs on the difference between religion & spirituality.
Jess so's ya all know, a dad doesn't have to be a 'Christian' to be a d*ck. Christian has nothing to do with it!
One of my best friends says that the fact that she's an atheist does not mean she's not spiritual.
One can be spiritual without the religious trappings, without the DOC label.
@Zenni who is this person in relation to you? What connection do they have to you?
What responsibility do you have for this 16-year -old?
You're always welcome to add to the discussion, @vinlyn...
@genkaku - thank you. I bought 2 lollipops earlier today.
@Shoshin - yes, spelt differently. Thanks for your avatar "inquire within"
@silver - thank you. "talk to her from the heart, I know that won't be a problem"
@karasti - thank you. " be open and honest from the heart"
@how - thanking you too "is all the teaching she needs on the difference..." Deep thoughts about what you said... She has to start somewhere, Now and here, is the "time and place".
@vinlyn - thank you very much for sharing your story (in another thread) I realised emotional damage can be long lasting.
@lobster and @federica - I once read these words on a van "when I see a need, I see my responsibility"
@Dakini and @DhammaDragon - thank you for helping
We will be taking a walk this evening.......
Both words are semantically difficult, so I wouldn't waste time over it. Probably better just to explain how you approach these things personally, keep it practical.
Some would say religion is like talking to a candy bar.
@zenni -- FWIW...
At the time my kids were growing up, I was a pretty gung-ho Zen Buddhist. I built a small meditation hall in the backyard -- a first in my half-baked construction lexicon. I sat and invited outsiders to do the same. I did a lot of stylized Zen practice over the better part of 40 years. But I never encouraged my children to be Buddhists, to believe in Buddhism or to load up on Buddhist trinkets.
I took this approach based on two perhaps-false tenets: 1. The only useful spiritual advice I can think of for young people who may be destined to take a serious interest in spiritual life is, "Go out and sin some more." and 2. I never wanted my kids to be "good Buddhists:' I just wanted them to be good human beings.
It made my heart ache to hear that dad could not bring himself to praise his child.
As I say, this is all just my point of view.
Last night
With 2 lollipops in my pocket...
I shared with her about articles I read - "suffering and how to handle it", my search and my new journey, that I was able to find peace and even joy. She was a willing listener. (shot a few arrows when I mentioned Buddhism)
Long story, short -
At the end of the walk
She is quite accepting on...
God made the universe, the universe provides.
We can connect/search the universe for answers
Buddha is a teacher. He himself did not say he is God.
We can learn from a good teacher.
Christianity focus on future, eternal life
Buddhism teaches skills on daily living
The moment I saw the hopeful glimpse on her face, I took out the 2 lollipops I bought earlier in the day. One each, we enjoyed it, with some giggling...
I believe she's on her way...
Thank you dear sangha.
Namaste
Zenni
different people biases towards which word you use. These come from their life experience.
For me religion is a more historic well known body where spirituality is your own home brew practice or understanding.
.....Or you could have just asked her "What she thinks Jesus would do/have done in a similar situation ?" ( "forgiveness" hint hint ) this would get her to think a little deeper about her situation and perhaps put things into perspective....Anyhow you could save this for a future reference ....
You handled that like a pro, @Zennie. Nicely done. Of course, you knew that.
@silver - thank you
each and every one of you contributed towards helping her 
You didn't know, I was quite nervous. lol..
It was a golden opportunity because she got curious about "my peace" so I figured she is "open". She is so young and already in so much pain!
There's a long road in front of her!
Here is the funny one - the lollipops in my pocket.
I had no idea when they will "come in".
Hands in my pockets (touching the lollipops) we walked and talked.
Ended well and the lollipops were still in my pocket.
So I whipped them out and sang, "let's celebrate....."
That's when we started giggling....
Lollipop dharma ... mmm ... I bin using carrots ...
Giggling dharma ... ah yes ... we haz plan
Glad it went well.
Next talk sugar free lollipops and dentures for 'dependent origination' talk? Too soon? 
I'd say religion is inspired by group thought.
Spirituality is personal.
Hi There, I'm new here.
The word "religion" is just a term to name what is your belief or faith. Spirituality is a universal term to connote a person's devotion to a God or god. But, the true spirituality is the spirituality that knows where is your destination afterlife. Religion may not saved, but intimate relationship with a God can save you because without that relationship, how can he will know you when you meet with Him?
Thanks
Hello @Yoshua
Welcome.
I take it you are posting from a Christian perspective?
Many here, well me at least, do not recognise your description of all religion or spirituality. By that I mean in Buddhism we concern ourself with practical problems. Many of us have no belief in God, pre or afterlife. It is considered just opinion or dogma.
So in Christian terminology, religion is what is presented and spirituality (Gnosis) is what we find to be true.
Are you interested in any aspects of Gnosis?
http://gnosticteachings.org/the-teachings-of-gnosis/introductory-information/12-what-is-gnosis.html
The spiritual condition is to reach beyond what is currently known.
Religion always has a strong social aspect associated to institutions. For many it can be like to join into a political party (or to support your local hockey team). I think there are really few or none wars because of pure spiritual reasons.
The Sun and the Moon were gods before science proved something else. Can science (neuro sciences and physics, for instance) find answers, to rationalise every spiritual question even in the relatively close future?
A cute A.A. one-liner (some cookie fortune wisdom) says...
"Religion is for people who don't want to go to Hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been there."
To me the spritual way is partly to question everything. And the human brain is a strict censor, so you don't see the marvels around you if you are not awake enough.
I like the take that 'being spiritual' is merely anything to do with working with our minds. If we're doing something that changes us, in a direction we want to go (i.e. more peaceful, more loving, kinder, etc), then that's 'being spiritual'. I think it's quite a pragmatic thing too; 'truth' doesn't need to have basis in reality, but the real test of 'truth' is in it's transformative effect.
In a sense a ritual could be both religious and spiritual; if we do some religious ritual that is also working with our minds; then it's both.
Not so.
The root of the word 'religion is to be found in Latin. The word 'religare' means to bind one's self to a devotion or worship.
As the word existed at a time when God was not known, but GodS were plentiful, the Christian God does not necessarily figure.
Not so.
Those who speak of spirituality, often define themselves as spiritual but not religious and generally believe in the existence of different "spiritual paths," emphasizing the importance of finding one's own individual path to spirituality.
Again, not necessarily so. This is Faith based on Hope and personal belief or persuasion, but with no guarantee of this belief actually being fulfilled. This is NOT spirituality.
Let me suggest that coming onto a Buddhist forum and even suggesting the definite existence of a Saviour God is already batting on a sticky wicket.
Many Buddhists neither believe, nor acknowledge such a God.
And for my part, on a personal note, I have no need of God.
Frankly, the existence of such a God is neither proven or disproven. Again, personally, I don't actually care either way whether God exists or not. It is of no consequence to me, and it's not a subject I necessarily have any interest in....
And for my part, I have no need of gods and a religion. There are so many fancy traditions, but it's better to trust on your own observations and intuitions.
Spirituality can also be that deep inner "calling" towards something bigger than oneself, whereas religion is the mostly-organized, generally codified expression of that inner calling.
Being "spiritual" sounds a bit cool, being "religious" doesn't.
Hi lobster,
I believed "knosis" means spiritual knowledge. Gnostic teachings is different from what I have been through. Can you give me some background about your knowledge about Gnosis?
If no belief in God, then how do you have peace and love? assurance of eternity?
Thanks
Yes, I respect that. If a person did not believe that there is God, then who made all things? how about our existence?
Thanks