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What is the best form of employment for a lay Buddhist?
I've done a lot of types of work. I've worked in food service (in the back, not much exposure to customers), child care, retail, tech support, and even construction. I can't say that any of them was unchallenging as far as a practice opportunity. Even being a stay at home mom now and spending so much of my time with the people I love the most, offers a ton of opportunity and is challenging every day. I don't think we have to seek out challenge most of the time. Just working with others in any capacity is an endless opportunity to practice.
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
I'm not sure I totally agree with that, there are definitely degrees. Working in software at a small company where everyone cared about the product more than personal reputation was definitely among the easiest jobs. Settled work, a common goal, intelligent and highly educated people, it was very possible to breeze through the days.
Working for big blue chips where there was a lot more ego and ambition to advance was definitely more challenging. But I can imagine many lines of work that would be more so.
Even in small businesses here, you are likely to find major competition between people. Even if you only have 5 co-workers. Everyone in the US is competing for something, always wanting more than their neighbor, always scrambling to be better than someone. Your experience might be different simply because of where you live. My best experience was actually in the largest company I worked for, because I had a good team even though working with the public was challenging. The smaller work places were actually more difficult.
I wasn't suggesting there are not degrees of challenge. I was only saying there is an opportunity to practice anywhere if you choose to see it.
@Shoshin said:
I guess the best form of employment for a lay Buddhist, would be something that's 'challenging' ....how else is one going to progress along the path without a 'testing ground' for one's practice.......
That's a really interesting point of view. You could say that working for say an NGO as a clerk is a worthy but unchallenging line of work for a Buddhist, while working for the soup kitchens in a large city puts you in a lot more contact with the suffering and those in need of the dharma.
I would say the clerk's job would still have an element of challenge to it...How much of a challenge, I guess would depend on the line of work the NGO was involved in....
It is acknowledged in the south Asian Buddhist traditions that the Buddha's last meal was a pork dish.
No, actually, it isn't. The link you provide clearly states that the contents of the meal was questionable. It could have been a type of mushroom. That is not evidence of the Buddha eating meat. Given his propensity to recommend not killing, and that dealing with animals is one of the 5 Businesses that are not favourable, it is far more credible and likely that he was not a meat-eater.
South Asian Buddhist traditions are really not the most reliable source of information, given their habit of mixing much local folklore, shamanism and belief in 'magick' with Buddhism, giving an entirely 'unique' take on things....
If you have any evidence that the Buddha never ate meat I humbly request you to provide the evidence.
Of course there is no evidence, that he never ate meat. As you well know. But there is no evidence either that he did, and given his position and authority, and his opinion and recommendations, it is far more credible and likely, on balance, that he chose a vegetarian lifestyle.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
IN any case, this discussion is de-railing the thread. If you wish to reply you are more than welcome to, @Swaroop , but make it in a PM to me, not on forum.
I would advise against beginning a thread on the subject though. We already have had many threads discussing vegetarianism. many have "ended in tears". So really, it's not worth pitching "that old chestnut" again.
Myself, I have been looking very hard for something that was very easy to do, required little of my time, and paid a big, I mean really, really, really big salary. Then I could donate most of the money to charities and still have plenty of time to ride my bike, shoot pool, barbecue veggie meals, and listen to jazz, along w/ taking a daily geezer nap. That would be the essence of the teachings in my book.
I think there's a big difference between a nurturing challege and a demoralizing challenge. I love a good challege, unless it's eating up my soul.... in which case... well, you get the idea.
I swear that somewhere in the Pali texts it says that Buddha doesn't either explicitly allow or disallow meat eating. That in certain circumstances meat should not be accepted, but that in other circumstances, it can and should be out of loving kindness for the generosity of the person offering it for alms. Basically if it was suspected the animal was killed to feed Buddha or his monks, then it should not be eaten. But if it was doubtful whether that is the case it is best to accept it graciously.
Work stuff is a difficult one for me. Because I have been out of the workforce for several years now (7 years) it's much easier to see how soul sucking most of it is. that most of us work for peanuts compared to how much the people above us and the investors are bringing in on our labor. That so many jobs contribute much more to the problems in this world than they contribute to solving those problems. For me, when I am ready to return to work, that'll be a focus-to finding a job that can help solve problems rather than continue them or create more of them. We have made choices in our lives (my family and I) to give up things in order to be able to live on a smaller income, including the cost of living where we live and the things we choose to go without. I suspect we will be giving up more as the kids get older with a focus on how we can use whatever skills and resources we have to better our community rather than make our lives more cushy and filled with material stuff.
@Mutley said:
Lay Buddhists all need an income and almost invariably (unless you have private income) this will be derived from employment. What sort of employment appeals to most Buddhists?
In my current mind , Buddhism is the natural process of realization and is never limited to human knowledge or culture .....so regardless what we do , is all part of the process as nothing is good or bad , nothing is right or wrong , nothing is true or false
In my current mind , Buddhism is the natural process of realization and is never limited to human knowledge or culture .....so regardless what we do , is all part of the process as nothing is good or bad , nothing is right or wrong , nothing is true or false
But there are still choices to make, aren't there? A choice might not be labeled right or wrong, but they are still choices.
I agree with @Steve_B . I get that all experience is learning, and that if you have eliminated the source of your suffering and no longer desire to have anything other than what comes naturally to you, then that means you're okay with anything, and are awakened to the normalcy of anything....... whoa this sentence just got a little nutty... bachelors in english, forgive me...
just knowing the truth of the matter, that wanting to not suffer is part of the reason we do suffer, isn't going to auto-enlighten you. And even if that truth is totally internalized, well, something being natural or normal or a deeper truth doesn't keep it from being, for lack of a better word, "bad" in some way. ex: fire is awesome. Fire is hot. Say I accidentally fall into fire and burn myself. It's a truth that fire will break down my cells and explode the water inside them, causing significant pain and damage. It's a truth that wanting this pain to go away is the reason the pain bothers me... it's also true that wanting the pain to go away, or not wanting the pain to go away, ain't gonna make it not hurt. amirite? That resulting pain is still "bad" imo.
My wife was a nurse and I was a performing musician. We are semi-retired now and she teaches Yoga while I teach music - mostly to children. We started teaching as a way to give back but now we both find it so rewarding it almost feels selfish.
The connection between Yoga and Meditation is quite obvious and I also find the practice of music to be quite meditative - especially when one reaches inside to find one's own music.
Comments
I've done a lot of types of work. I've worked in food service (in the back, not much exposure to customers), child care, retail, tech support, and even construction. I can't say that any of them was unchallenging as far as a practice opportunity. Even being a stay at home mom now and spending so much of my time with the people I love the most, offers a ton of opportunity and is challenging every day. I don't think we have to seek out challenge most of the time. Just working with others in any capacity is an endless opportunity to practice.
I'm not sure I totally agree with that, there are definitely degrees. Working in software at a small company where everyone cared about the product more than personal reputation was definitely among the easiest jobs. Settled work, a common goal, intelligent and highly educated people, it was very possible to breeze through the days.
Working for big blue chips where there was a lot more ego and ambition to advance was definitely more challenging. But I can imagine many lines of work that would be more so.
Even in small businesses here, you are likely to find major competition between people. Even if you only have 5 co-workers. Everyone in the US is competing for something, always wanting more than their neighbor, always scrambling to be better than someone. Your experience might be different simply because of where you live. My best experience was actually in the largest company I worked for, because I had a good team even though working with the public was challenging. The smaller work places were actually more difficult.
I wasn't suggesting there are not degrees of challenge. I was only saying there is an opportunity to practice anywhere if you choose to see it.
I would say the clerk's job would still have an element of challenge to it...How much of a challenge, I guess would depend on the line of work the NGO was involved in....
Ninja house painter? Maybe just the house painter part, actually.
Professional Buddha
... though stealth painter is a good plan ... ^^.
Painting is very satisfying.
No, actually, it isn't. The link you provide clearly states that the contents of the meal was questionable. It could have been a type of mushroom. That is not evidence of the Buddha eating meat. Given his propensity to recommend not killing, and that dealing with animals is one of the 5 Businesses that are not favourable, it is far more credible and likely that he was not a meat-eater.
South Asian Buddhist traditions are really not the most reliable source of information, given their habit of mixing much local folklore, shamanism and belief in 'magick' with Buddhism, giving an entirely 'unique' take on things....
Of course there is no evidence, that he never ate meat. As you well know. But there is no evidence either that he did, and given his position and authority, and his opinion and recommendations, it is far more credible and likely, on balance, that he chose a vegetarian lifestyle.
This is a very interesting read.
IN any case, this discussion is de-railing the thread. If you wish to reply you are more than welcome to, @Swaroop , but make it in a PM to me, not on forum.
I would advise against beginning a thread on the subject though. We already have had many threads discussing vegetarianism. many have "ended in tears". So really, it's not worth pitching "that old chestnut" again.
Myself, I have been looking very hard for something that was very easy to do, required little of my time, and paid a big, I mean really, really, really big salary. Then I could donate most of the money to charities and still have plenty of time to ride my bike, shoot pool, barbecue veggie meals, and listen to jazz, along w/ taking a daily geezer nap. That would be the essence of the teachings in my book.
@row37 that's the american dream, isn't it??
A job that was very easy to do would be, to me, most unfulfilling. Challenges are needed if we are to learn and develop.
I think there's a big difference between a nurturing challege and a demoralizing challenge. I love a good challege, unless it's eating up my soul.... in which case... well, you get the idea.
I swear that somewhere in the Pali texts it says that Buddha doesn't either explicitly allow or disallow meat eating. That in certain circumstances meat should not be accepted, but that in other circumstances, it can and should be out of loving kindness for the generosity of the person offering it for alms. Basically if it was suspected the animal was killed to feed Buddha or his monks, then it should not be eaten. But if it was doubtful whether that is the case it is best to accept it graciously.
Work stuff is a difficult one for me. Because I have been out of the workforce for several years now (7 years) it's much easier to see how soul sucking most of it is. that most of us work for peanuts compared to how much the people above us and the investors are bringing in on our labor. That so many jobs contribute much more to the problems in this world than they contribute to solving those problems. For me, when I am ready to return to work, that'll be a focus-to finding a job that can help solve problems rather than continue them or create more of them. We have made choices in our lives (my family and I) to give up things in order to be able to live on a smaller income, including the cost of living where we live and the things we choose to go without. I suspect we will be giving up more as the kids get older with a focus on how we can use whatever skills and resources we have to better our community rather than make our lives more cushy and filled with material stuff.
In my current mind , Buddhism is the natural process of realization and is never limited to human knowledge or culture .....so regardless what we do , is all part of the process as nothing is good or bad , nothing is right or wrong , nothing is true or false
But there are still choices to make, aren't there? A choice might not be labeled right or wrong, but they are still choices.
I agree with @Steve_B . I get that all experience is learning, and that if you have eliminated the source of your suffering and no longer desire to have anything other than what comes naturally to you, then that means you're okay with anything, and are awakened to the normalcy of anything....... whoa this sentence just got a little nutty... bachelors in english, forgive me...
just knowing the truth of the matter, that wanting to not suffer is part of the reason we do suffer, isn't going to auto-enlighten you. And even if that truth is totally internalized, well, something being natural or normal or a deeper truth doesn't keep it from being, for lack of a better word, "bad" in some way. ex: fire is awesome. Fire is hot. Say I accidentally fall into fire and burn myself. It's a truth that fire will break down my cells and explode the water inside them, causing significant pain and damage. It's a truth that wanting this pain to go away is the reason the pain bothers me... it's also true that wanting the pain to go away, or not wanting the pain to go away, ain't gonna make it not hurt. amirite? That resulting pain is still "bad" imo.
My wife was a nurse and I was a performing musician. We are semi-retired now and she teaches Yoga while I teach music - mostly to children. We started teaching as a way to give back but now we both find it so rewarding it almost feels selfish.
The connection between Yoga and Meditation is quite obvious and I also find the practice of music to be quite meditative - especially when one reaches inside to find one's own music.
Ain't that always the way.