Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
What is the best form of employment for a lay Buddhist?
Mutley
Somerset UK Explorer
Lay Buddhists all need an income and almost invariably (unless you have private income) this will be derived from employment. What sort of employment appeals to most Buddhists?
0
Comments
If i had my druthers I'd be in the arts, teaching, mediating conflict, service, shakespeare.... something with lots of human interaction. (with benefits! lol)
It would be easier to tell you what the Buddha advised we should NOT do.
Also, read here.
I've met a few Buddhists in different walks of life. One was a web designer, one a housewife, one a therapist, one a teacher. Personally I've been a graphic designer and a software developer.
Anything to do with computers and coding is a mixed blessing, in my experience. You spend a lot of time with your thoughts and in the logical mind, which is not so conducive to meditation. But it is light work and doesn't violate any part of right livelihood.
The caring professions might be a good choice - nursing or physiotherapy or even coaching. They connect well with compassion, impermanence, and so on.
I always thought it would be nice to be a light-house keeper, lots of time to meditate, in the elements and stuff. Not that I'm an anti-social git or anything.
'ere ya go ...
I think being a veterinarian or some other kind of doctor would be acceptable.
My first real job was as a phototypesetter for my home town newspaper. Working for some sort of publication would be okay, I think.
Being a veterinarian will place moral dilemmas in front of the OP. There will undoubtedly be times when the job will demand some pretty hard decisions. I think for one embarking on a Buddhist path, that might be a tall order....
Then you can't be a Buddhist and a butcher? But the Buddha ate meat all his life! Sounds like double standards to me.
I asked this question because I have now spent ~50 years working as a pharmacist. In the community setting dealing with the public en mass can be very challenging. It is only of late that I have felt as though I am succeeding with the very mixed feelings generated. One wants to give compassion to all but the very drive to "get the job done" and to deal with dozens or hundreds precludes that. One thing that I have learnt (via a hypnotherapy course) is to read people quickly. And I am beginning to understand the roots of my own anger. And I understand Jung's comment that nowadays we are all possessed by Der Geist Mercurius an irrational and largely unaccountable haste at a time when we live longer and more comfortably than ever before (at least in the NW quadrant of the Globe).
So do I deal in intoxicants or poisons. Paracelsus would say that "the danger is in the dose", also the purpose is to relieve suffering rather than produce euphoria.
I often wonder whether prolonging "life" just prolongs misery. (But I am not involved with patients at that level). In losing its sacerdotal role medicine (apart from a few exceptions such as Ian Stevenson) has forfeited to a large extent its ability to ask the question"What is death?"
So: overall any work that permits the expression of compassion and allows us to learn about life and death I would think suitable for a Buddhist.
That sounds very worthwhile to me, and dealing with the public requires great patience.
Yes, very true, and public service generally.
Why don't you provide accurate reference to where it says the Buddha ate meat all his life, before making claims of that kind?
That's expected here.
Make a direct claim about the Buddha, you have to back it up.
Thanks.
Your current dealing with prescribing medicine, is somewhat different to having to actually kill an animal.
But you decide....
A politician...they are honest as the day is long, wise as the barn owl, and as trustworthy as the Titanic
wow so much food for thought here
I think the Buddha probably did eat meat all his life - because I recall it being said in his biography that when they would go beg (?) for food they would accept whatever was given to them and eat it and appreciate whatever it was.
I think a doctor for animals or humans etc. is a great line of work for a lay Buddhist because it's not so much that they 'kill' animals that are sick and dying but isn't that the point, to waylay deepening suffering of animal or human? If it has to be done, in the best decision that has to be made...let me put it this way: If you or I had a pet or human that was near and dear to us and had no where to turn (no doctors of any kind), what would WE do in that absence? Would we just sit on our cushions and contemplate our navels or what? We might just do nothing but decisions to go one way or the other will be made by you or I. fwiw
On a more serious note: any work that involves helping those in need...and there are many opportunities for one to choose from..
I think the ideal form of employment for a lay Buddhist would be to become a Buddhist monk or nun ... ie, a Buddhahood apprenticeship so to speak....where one is paid in merits, which can be used anywhere and any life time ....
The Buddha would eat whatever Ananda brought him, and it is doubtful he ate meat, particularly as he stated that no monks should kill an animal, nor have anyone do it for him...
Hopefully this passage supports the notion that the Buddha himself was a vegetarian rather than not one, although he recommended that monks make up their own minds, albeit being more skilful to not partake of it.
I really like what that link said - aces!
seriously
Direct answer: As long as it is not illegal and/or immoral (your measure there) and
assuming you are qualified, whatever work you want to do would be just fine.
Peace to all
PS: That ice cream shop looks delicious! >
The very best? That would be something that helps alleviate the suffering of sentient beings, without causing any harm or doing anything unethical. The 2nd best would be generally anything that doesn't cause harm or involve anything unethical. The worst is doing something that makes you break the precepts.
I've worked as a machinist most of my adult life, with the exception of a 10 yr stint as an assistant maintenance supervisor at a private prison. I came to loath the idea of corporations incarcerating people for profit, so returning to that occupation is definitely out. There doesn't seem to be much harm in being a machinist unless you're making instruments of war, so I won't be applying for work over at Raytheon making parts for missiles. Ideally I'd like to have a job helping people, but I have no saleable skills in that area. I don't think right livelihood means that we should all have jobs doing something wonderful for mankind. I think it means that we shouldn't have occupations that cause harm to other sentient beings, or jobs that are bad for society. I'm hoping that when I retire, when money is not my primary consideration, I'll be able to find a job or volunteer doing something that helps people or animals.
Is the Dalai Lama a Buddhist? Perhaps only on alternate days. Due to pressure from his Western followers he eats meat one day, vegetarian the next. Many Tibetans, rinpoches and lamas eat a high meat diet. As the Muslims in Tibet are butchers, the hypocrites Buddhists are blameless. Mmm ...
http://opcoa.st/0blDb
As most sangha and the dharma police are intoxicated on Dharma and mind states, sobriety is not so clear.
'Welcome to the real world'
Morpheus - The Matrix
... and now back to the ideal occupation ...
at the end analysis, gardening food (vegetable, grain and fruits) is the best
because
we all (lay people and monks) need food to survive
whether we can go to this stage or not is another thing
if we have to choose a living within where we are at the moment, then the motto should be:
'as long as the work i am involved with doesn't harm me or others or both then that would be the best employment for me'
Being a farmer yeah, unless it's gmo crops.
I have a hunch that there is no profession that does not cross the good/bad barrier at some point. Blamelessness may be a wonderful wish, but human activities don't work out very well where wishes are ascendant. I think the best anyone can do is to face and shoulder responsibility for the line(s) s/he chooses to cross. No picnic, perhaps, but it carries with it the benefit of being honest.
First, figure out where your skills are. What you enjoy what you are good at. Then try to use it to find the way to make the world (even your small corner of it) a better place. Do the best you can. You won't be perfect. There will still be difficult decisions you won't always get right. Work is no more than life.
^^^ Exactly.
Anyone gardening or farming knows how much is a battle with insects and others that conflict with our goals. Ahimsa is barely possible for Jain monks wearing face monks to protect the inhalation of insects. I worked for a year on a market garden. We avoided killing crop munchers whenever practical.
However let us be mature lay Buddhists not child/niave monks. We often can choose an attitude or direction of working with others, including 'pests' that quite naturally want to share our flowers and crops.
Idiot compassion is not real kindness/friendliness/compassion. It has not addressed the First Noble Truth of Dukkha.
Expect Dukkha. Just don't indulge and pander to it. Do the best you can. Gently. Kindly to yourself first. Patiently.
Iz plan!
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/2_29lbud.htm
It is acknowledged in the south Asian Buddhist traditions that the Buddha's last meal was a pork dish.
If you have any evidence that the Buddha never ate meat I humbly request you to provide the evidence.
Even the Therevadins are only prohibited by the Buddha from eating human, elephant, snake, horse, dog, cat, lion, tiger, bear, leopard, and hyena flesh.
http://opcoa.st/0bz4Q
So clearly McDonalds is out ...
... and now back to cherry picking for fruitarians ...
Driving an ice-cream van would be a nice job, bringing such joy!
Swaroop asked whether one could be both a Buddhist and a butcher. I think this is a perfectly reasonable question. And it's a question for today. Could one be a butcher TODAY and still be a Buddhist? I'd think it could be answered, or at least pondered and discussed, without necessarily knowing with definitive certainty what meals were eaten or not eaten by someone who lived ~2500 years ago.
Would this kind of work contribute to or undermine the qualities we are trying to develop?
Good question. My perspective on this has changed much over the years. Decades ago I was a paramedic. I married a nurse. I considered Right Livelihood important and I loved my job. Later, I took a promotion that brought me away from the bedside, but gave me opportunities to make creative contributions. I found my way into energy management and progressed in that field. Energy efficiency at industrial scale has very important environmental implications, and I loved my job. Today I lead a team of 66 people providing Integrated Facilities Management (IFM) services under contract to a pharmaceutical manufacturing company. Is this Right Livelihood? Surely pharmaceutical manufacturing is a force for good in the world, isn't it? Is this work better than providing IFM services at an industrial manufacturer? A brewery? A prison? A meat packing plant?
When I arrived at the site last summer I was surprised to find that the core team of my direct reports were all under 30. I was used to managers and supervisors in their 50s. Working with people in their 20s is quite different. These are smart, intense, amazing people. A major part of my job is developing them for more advanced roles. Some of them will have career trajectories much much higher than mine. It turns out to be incredibly exhilarating work. It definitely feels like Right Livelihood. Would it still be Right Livelihood if we worked in a weapons manufacturing plant? Could I still be a positive influence in people's lives?
Theoretically - anything that doesn't break the Precepts. In practicality it's not that easy.
I'm quite opposed to eating meat. But. A lot of people living in poverty can't afford vegetarianism or are under too much stress to consider it. So, as a butcher, you're still providing food for the needy. Oh, also people with vitamin deficiencies. Is being a butcher something that NEEDS to be done? Maybe... but perhaps it is done too much. The meat industry is thriving. People are hardly hard-up for butchers. Isn't it kind of like saying Nestlé is providing a service by bottling water (from a draught area, mind)? I think it isnt the job, per se, but the industry that needs to be evaluated ethically.
A pharmacist doesn't deal in intoxicants and poison. A pharmacist deals in medicine.
Just because something can be poisonous in a larger dose doesn't mean it's "a poison". Even just water can be poisonous in a large dose. That doesn't mean water is "a poison".
It's safer to drink it in tea though.
I guess honestly, the same types of employment appeal to Buddhists that appeal to anyone. Something that provides a good income and leaves us with time to meditate and have a life outside the job. Beyond that, a job that doesn't require us to break the precepts, although there's exceptions.
I hope you really don't believe as a pharmacist you deal in poisons. You might as well say if you sell cars you deal in weapons because someone can kill themselves in one. Water is a poison if you drink enough too fast, after all. But even being a vet can be a huge problem for some people because you're expected to experiment on and kill and cut up lab rats in college.
Some Buddhists take literally and seriously that little list of proscribed jobs buried in the sutras. The problem is, the world our Buddha lived in was far different from ours when it came to jobs, and the jobs available were different. It puzzles me that he had to tell people not to make a living selling poisons. Were there poison shops? Did people lurk on street corners saying "Psst! I have some good arsenic today if you want your mother in law taken care of."
A lay Buddhist isn't expected to take a bowl and go beg for his or her meal, and I don't think we can go by a very short list of jobs from thousands of years ago for rules. But we can see the patterns. As for poison, I suppose today we'd say don't make a living selling illegal drugs that are going to ruin people's lives, like heroin or meth, but you wouldn't think we'd need to say that. Buddha couldn't say anything about many jobs we have today that take advantage of people's suffering because they didn't have them back then. Can a Buddhist be a prison guard or work for the prison industry? They didn't have prisons back then. The rulers punished or killed the offender and that was it. How about the man who evicts a family from their home because the bank foreclosed on the mortgage and you bought it at auction? Buddha's world didn't have banks and hedge funds and hostile takeovers or even a job market like we have.
So I don't think we can go by a list. Make a list today and in a few generations it will also be outdated. But the guiding principles always remain. Don't take advantage of other being's suffering. It's not that hard to know what a Buddhist should and should not do.
Off topic from the employment issue, but I have found my shopping to be considerably cheaper since going veggie, there are lots of really good websites giving recipe ideas and a lot of dishes can be cooked in batches then frozen if one is cooking alone
On employment, I have worked for many years in financial services which I found disheartening and soulless. I'm just beginning to retrain as a reflexologist, it's going to take a while but I think will be a rewarding change of path, to help/heal rather than worry about profits
My Mother is a qualified reflexologist, so hats off to you. And yes, meat is more expensive than vegetables. People living in poverty can't afford vegetarianism, but they sure as heck can't afford meat too much either.
It's the poorer strata of society that also has a high prevalence of overweight/obese people. Why? because cheap, fast food is mainly carbohydrate. Crisps, chips, beans, bread, eggs, soda drinks and sweets.
And cheap burgers and sausages (containing anything but a decent amount of meat!) are also on the menu....
Many modern day medicines are for the most part poisons as their design is to kill off whatever ails one be it germs bacteria etc etc...
I think also that there just are very few blanket "if you are Buddhist you shouldn't do this" types of things. Some of it is the environment you create by bringing the precepts into your job, and some of it is inherent in the environment of the job you take.
When I chose my major in college, I was in a different phase of life than I was by the time I finished. By the time I got to my last year and did my internship, I realized it was not a job or even a field I could work in and still feel emotionally stable to return to my family every day, particularly my son. Now that I am older and can see other opportunities, it is possible I will return to that roll when I go back to work one day. So while in 2002, working in a juvenile correctional facility was something I decided was not compatible with my values (I wasn't Buddhist then but my morals were much the same) now I possibly could find opportunities that would allow me to use the same knowledge and skills in a more positive manner. So, I couldn't say "A Buddhist shouldn't work in a correctional facility" because the right facility with the right type of options and teachers and overseers could work. Another kind would not. The key is to finding the just right fit. You could find yourself in a horrible environment in almost any job even if your motives and intentions for going into that field were good.
A renowned zen master once said, "The best form of employment is unemployment."
I haven't worked outside the home for 7 years. Not that being a stay at home mom is unemployed, but I have a whole lot more control over my day for sure. Honestly, now that my kids are a bit older and less needy, I find having all the free time much harder. I actually get LESS done on a regular basis than I did when i worked because being highly structured and having my day planned out is how I work best. When I'm on my own for a schedule, I often don't do much. I waste a lot of time and am in the process of evaluating that by tracking how I spend my time.
I think that you should do whatever you are drawn to; and then pay very close attention to what arises. Repeat as necessary.
You were drawn to pharmacology and subsequently became a pharmacist. Since you were paying attention, you noticed that you were growing increasingly uncomfortable and unsure of your choice for the you that you are today. Continue to pay attention.
Here's what I expect shall happen: The discomfort will increase and continue to do so until you either abandon the scapegoat (Buddhism) or change professions to salvage what's left of your peace and serenity. I think the following is an analogous story.
William Penn, the fellow after whom the American state of Pennsylvania was named, converted to Quakerism. Quakerism espouses, amongst other things, nonviolence. During that time period, gentlemen wore a sword by their side as a fashion statement. William Penn was eventually bothered by the idea that fashion statement or not, he was carrying around a weapon while espousing nonviolence. He went to his mentor, the fellow who had converted him, and asked for advice.
After listening to William's concerns his friend said, "Wear it as long as you can."
People tend to change at the speed of pain. William wore it for just a few more days.
I guess the best form of employment for a lay Buddhist, would be something that's 'challenging' ....how else is one going to progress along the path without a 'testing ground' for one's practice.......
The biggest problem I've had with employment over the years is bosses. I've had a couple of good ones, natural leaders, but also several promoted beyond their ability, they were more of a hindrance than a help.
I was self-employed as an electrician for a while which was nice, though there are downsides to self-employment too of course.
That's a really interesting point of view. You could say that working for say an NGO as a clerk is a worthy but unchallenging line of work for a Buddhist, while working for the soup kitchens in a large city puts you in a lot more contact with the suffering and those in need of the dharma.
Agreed! I do design/dev too, and I definitely have to take a step back and regain awareness. I was able to do free work for a nonprofit animal sanctuary, so it's possible to steer the work toward causes that relieve suffering. The most enjoyable jobs seem to be unpaid.
I think the lucky people get paid for their hobby.