Experiences of enlightenment -share
ZendoLord84
Veteran
I'm in the midst of a 'divorce', that's workterm, we were never married. 3 kids.
Being alone now in some hostel somewere and still i feel....joy.
I've tested my own cognitive functions and emotional states, next to joy there are other more 'negative' emotions, but they don't stick. Joy has an almost constant upperhand.
- anxiety (how the hell I am going to rearrange my life financially, kids visits, etc.)
- I miss my kids and dog
- fear, am I going crazy?
The negatives go away very quickly in meditation 5-10 minutes, my focus has gone up and I am meditating longer than ever before. Several session of 10-15 min a day.
Ive made an 20 page inductive and deductive research in a day. Needed it to drive out my fear of going mad. It all comes down to this.
(thank you wikipedia)
Seven Factors of Awakening
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
**Mindfulness **
Im fully aware of all my internal processes, and what goes around me ofcourse, i haven't lost track of reality (I manage the practical side of my divorce like a business, I maintain an balanced work-out and meditation regime, see my kids, talk kind-neutral to my ex. Etc, I KNOW what i'm doing and what is happening.
To maintain awareness of reality (dharma). ·
I've crossed checked my mental state across several diagnoses like bi-polar, ADHD, manic, schizofrenia, borderline, brain damage etc. etc. etc. none make it. The joy factor comes closest to ADHD, i'm so enthousiastic sometimes I want to share my worldly view, but people around me (ofcourse) can't seem to see a bigger connected picture. This makes me start to speedtalk, trying to get the image across. Im aware of this and working to internalize my joy's and communication a bit more.
**Investigation of the nature of reality **
Im constantly checking my own natural states, connection states, world states, etc. Im kinda doing this on autopilot, my mind keeps doing it, no effort.
**Energy also determination, effort · **
I sleep 5-7 hours a day and fully function, full-time job, personal life, it all goes like train. I used to feel shitty sometimes even after 8 hrs of sleep. Im also very effectively prioritising life discisions, and everything seems to synchronicitizing.
Joy or rapture (pīti, Skt. prīti) ·
I HAVE to mask it sometimes, otherwise I get the fruitcake label, but when i'm alone i'm singing, whistling, and have a grin of my face. I have loud deep true laughs, by myself and perfectly comfortable with it. The joy never goes into euforic xtc like experiences, it's fire doesnt consume me.
**Relaxation or tranquility of both body and mind · **
Despite my normal feelings and thoughts and the ever changing human experience sorta speak, some part of my mindstate is SOLID like, it doesnt move along, but its on the other hand not blocking or hindering the other processes.
**Concentration, a calm, one-pointed state of mind, or clear awareness · **
I can sit a lot easier, I can multitask several processes for more then two hours (and i'm a dude)
**Equanimity . **
The last month or so , before this list (looked it up and processed it yesterday, i've been telling to reallife people i am pondering a new tattoo that says c'est la vie. Not everything is fixable, life is too big. And that's ok. I've been keeping my circle of influence small automatically, and work from there trying to create situations with a good as it gets outcome for everybody.
This evaluation of seven awakening factors is one of the "Seven Sets" of "Awakening-related states" (bodhipakkhiyadhamma). The Pali word bojjhanga is a compound of bodhi ("awakening," "enlightenment")
I know, after enlightenment I need to keep on chopping wood and carrying water.
But u know, I would like some imput from you guys on this forum.
Last addition: my sense of time is.......completely gone, when I dont actively manage it (without being compulsive).
Last month could have been years or a minute I don't know lol.
Im curieus. Let's hear it. What's next, what should or can I do with this? All is open, all I know is, i need to share this, not with a shrink he will give me pills that spiritually kill me. I'm not a monk I am a lay-practisioner, 37 years old, started when I was 18.
Comments
Interesting post.
I felt more relief than joy when my marriage ended. A sense of freedom for sure after so many years of being controlled by another person.
I’m glad you’re feeling good.
This too shall pass...
its not about the marriage bro.
Or divorce.
Lol.
Ty for your reply
Its funny, I never thought of divorce as a spiritual experience, but in essence anything that provides the right amount of change and stress can start it.
I’ve never married myself, so I don’t know what it’s like, but I’ll raise a glass to your happiness.
I have heard though that nurturing an enlightened state (if that is what you think it is) and making it permanent is much trickier than advertised. So there’s that.
You could try doing some original writing on life subjects, see how your creativity is?
LOL, i figured the stress part, catalysator out allrdy.
Prior to my divorce, for a period of six years we had three sons, none of them slept through the night, needed to get several times every single night, meanwhile I was working irregular shifts full time, whilst maintaining a fitness and meditation regime. We bought and fixed up two house. With any real effort changing help from family/friends.
The last two years ive been sleeping in the living room on a small mat (1 inch).
Sounds like six full years of monastery-grinding to me....at least.
Me breaking free has been a process. This is not some overnight rush thing. Only at the end I made fast descisions and acted upon them.
First I had a vasectomy without talking about it with my ex. Then I made some adjustments at my job cause some parts didn't make me happy. Then after an event I realised how unhappy I was in my 'marriage'.
Poof now i'm here.
sidenote: the events were just events sorta. it just all happened im now im showing a lot of signs of spiritual awakening and it's 'on' for last 4-7ish weeks.
I have heard though that nurturing an enlightened state (if that is what you think it is) and making it permanent is much trickier than advertised. So there’s that.
Solitude seems enabling lol. structured meditation practise too.
I dont 'fight' it either, but i do ''fight' certain imbalances in my life and imbalanced people. Too much or too less clinging in interactions. This happens automatically on a more subconsious level.
Ive been writing journals and forums starting around 18, same time as my practise.
Most of my journal writings I delete after some weeks, always been doing this. It doesnt feel right to keep them.
Into Koans and poetry too sometimes.
Dunno i'll see how long it lasts, ride it out.
Thanks bro.
It sounds like some changes needed to be made, and that can be very energising and freeing. But if these feelings stay with you for a number of weeks then that’s a pretty strong indicator. Whether it lasts is always a good litmus test.
Honestly? I haven’t any enlightenment to share. I am just a plodder in the Buddhas footsteps.🙂
@ZendoLord84
I don't think anybody gets through life without coming up against some experience of enlightenment. How strong or deep or profound or weak or shallow or transitory those experiences are, they are never ultimately about us.
A human being is largely just a habituated momentum of karma that primarily defends itself against the illusions of it's own construction. Such an existence results in almost all of our activities taking on the flavor of an underlying state of dis satisfaction & suffering that is so universal that we call it "normal".
When life presents opportunities to transcend our own karmic inclinations, the degree to which we manifest such a transcendence is usually the same degree to which a lessoning of our life's suffering results.
There is nobody that acquired anything. There is just an alleviation of suffering's cause.
While such experiences can arise for a nano second or the rest of your life, it will only remains to the degree that you don't make it about you.
First of all your experience is genuine. Real. There is a lot of next.
You can do good, bad or middle way. You can serve and benefit others. BUT you have to do this without becoming a guru. The more ordinary you appear the better. Do not expect advisement from seekers/sangha or celebrity spirituals.
You are in the condition of effusion. The need to express, share and engender the joy in others. You can not. When conditions are right or primed others have such experiences as @how mentions. You can move or unfold others towards qualities or beneficial karma in subtle ways.
—————
Thank you bro.
Ive been pouring too much its been driving me crazy cause somehow.....i am nothing. Kinda hard to describe. I just become/melt the ones I interact with somehow. No mirror.
This is the second im in this mindstate. Last time it took me several weeks to come out of it. Went to shrinks who wanted to give me lithium lol. I ran like hell cause all my cognitive abilities are ok.
My kids need a father cant go off save the world lol or humankind for that matter.
That was a joke.
Doing evil is very easy too i see the danger there.
I will practise middle way and practise shifting my point of view more outward.
I really dont want to become a guru! Im just a simple joe with a simple blue collar job.
Any advice? Loving kindness meditation? I prefer simple excersises nothing theoretical.
Once again ty bro
It does sound a bit like a manic episode, come to think of it, I can understand the shrinks wanting to prescribe lithium. Probably the best thing to do is not to spend too much time alone in your head, and try some grounding practices. No meditation but basic exercise, limited amounts of tv, walks in nature, calming things, simple and solid food, not too much coffee or alcohol. Maybe some just sitting.
I think perhaps difference between psychosis is how in tune with reality you can be and remain. Like you said your job and other life is easily managed like a train. If you had a severe psychotic break that would not be the case. I have schizoaffective and I also believe I've had experiences as part of the dharma. But the difference is that in some of my breaks I had delusional thinking to the point that upon talking to a (trusted) psychiatrist I was asked to go to a hospital to recover.
Did you go? What happened?
Yes I did go. And on another occasion my therapist recommend I go and I drove to the same place I had been before and told them that my therapist recommend to talk to them and had another stay in the hospital. There they talk to you and assess your diagnosis and medicines. You get some blood tests and eat lunch spend time with the others there with you. I was overnight each time several days. You do group activities and eat together. When I came out each time I was much better off than when I went in. It's been 15 years since my last time in the hospital though I have had medicine changes both due to relapses (not severe enough for hospital stay) and due to deciding to try for a medicine that handles my symptoms better.
Grounding that @Kerome mentions.
The constrained thinking has been shaken up BUT not all directions of being are safe/skilful or useful to you, others or society.
Loving kindness meditation is fine. Writing down your thoughts is helpful and possible. People who are asleep/constrained/walking the middle way can provide alternatives and advice as @Jeffrey has done. One of the most skilful traits is to listen rather than effervesce.
https://oneminddharma.com/how-to-ground-yourself/
There is so much I can relate to in this snippet. Yesterday was three months since I experienced a pronounced and sudden change. One moment I was in the midst of a nine year freefall into a depressive abyss the depths of which I did not know existed, and the next moment I was wasn't. In fact, I was much more than simply someone who no longer suffering from a treatment resistant major depressive episode. I was experiencing my existence in fuller way than ever before. The doctor who had been treating me for depression immediately pathologized it and wanted to medicate it.
For my part, I just asked him questions to which I already knew the answers such as, "Well, that would certainly explain the sudden changes. Is it common for someone to have his first manic episode at my age (55)?" and "Another curious aspect of this change is that while I am excited for life again, I am wearing myself out from the marked increase in activity, and as a result, am finding myself taking naps throughout the day.
Is this typical during a manic episode?" The answer to those questions, of course, is an emphatic 'no', and so, with this and similar questions, I guided him away from his conclusion. The two members of my health care team who have been with me longest, suspected it was something more - something extraordinarily positive and powerful and they backed me and were not shy about sharing their perspectives with him.
I have found that what you refer to as the 'mindstate' to be a slippery sort. That said, when I find that it is slipping away, releasing my grip on it allows it to return. It is as if I have slime or silly putty in the palm of my hand. When I try to close my hand and make a fist, the slime seeps through unforeseen crevasses between my clenched fingers. The instinct to tighten my fist only makes things worse, but opening my hand again - refusing to grasp it, allows it to stay...at least for three months and a day.
Great story @yagr
It just goes to show that there are many more states of mind than those that are listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The vast majority of psychiatrists don’t do much more than prescribing pills, and will reach for the prescription pad with very little provocation.
Its always seemed to me the less pills the better, from personal experience it is not always easy to stop taking medication that a doctor has prescribed to you. And if your cognitive ability is not impaired then you might as well wait a while longer and see what develops, the clarity of a spiritual experience or something else.
Just beware of three things, delusions (thinking things are true which are not), hallucinations (perceiving things which are not there), and imbalance (mood swings, extreme emotional volatility). Those can develop out of a euphoric state and generally spell big trouble.
Yes yes yes this.
On the spot.
Im living in solitude atm with regular kid visits and my job but thats about it.
This kinda naturally allows me to not grasp and it not goes away.
‘The bird of paradise only lands on the hand that does not grasp’
Heck, i dont even really know how to cling to some mental stuff anymore lol.
I discussed the whole story with my social worker (‘divorce’) and when I started talking about several mental illnesses and prior similar mindstates in my life (i was younger and not skillfull or prepared) her attitude changed and she started to ask the mental health questions u know.
I could talk her out of it pretty easily by telling her a dozen situations about sane human responses to difficult or complex situations i had the last month. Non complient with manic episodes or other illnesses , I suggested her she should talk to some elderly co-worker who’s into meditation and spirituality (often the the case in that line of work, stereotyping works often, thats why they exist in the first place lol) about my ‘case’ and she’s gonna do that. Nice girl but she’s young and not into dharma etc.
Her main concerns are my mental speed, im thinking fast like a rocket but its all sane and logical. Kinda explains my loss of time sense (sometimes, like when im not working on laptop or phone).
And; my negative mindstates are gone very rapidly. She seen me cry out of pain, but shortly after i was just fine and neutral/happy again. All the ‘negatives’ arise just don’t linger very long.
I told her; thats a damm fine way to live isnt it?
Bottom line; im fine just as it is. Only have to tread carefully and skillfully cause other people are ‘slow’ and miss the bigger picture, without being arrogant.
And ofcourse I make mistakes, first of all im a human im born defaulted by nature and sometimes I just miss ‘data’ and ‘calculate’ the wrong ‘output’ with my thought patterns.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Spot on.
kenshō from what "I" gather ... comes and goes...it's nothing special however thus have "I" heard, the minute "I" think it's special and want to hold onto it, it's not kenshō...
The Mind (and its manifestations such as the ego-self) is complex ...It would seem, the ego-self is not a bad thing, it's just that it can't always be trusted to do the right thing ...
When a major personal crises strikes, the ego-self will go into action seeking a way out and it has many tricks up its sleeve...
At times it may completely deny the situation at hand and pretend all is well, leaving things to fester just under the surface, biding their time to make their presence felt...a case of a cause=denial of the situation and when the conditions are right...the effect/result...this approach it would seem, is a common one...
However then there are the more elaborate ones where it really pulls out all the stops, it will [e]go the whole nine yards with this denial so to speak, by creating an extraordinary experience often taking snippets that appeals to it from books or what's been heard at Dharma talks and then produce it's own temporary version/illusion...
It does all this to try and protect you (aka itself,) but more often than not does more harm than good...
The experience maybe fun/blissful while it lasts...However the higher the bliss, the longer the drop... and the long drop is where more shit happens....
The ego can make any illusion quite convincing.. the more the desire to escape the situation the more believable it will make it...but only time will tell the truth...
May what you are experiencing be the real thing aka Satori @ZendoLord84
Ive been contemplating on this for a while allready shosho1.
Very insightful post.
Certain elements of my behaviour are pointing out at this direction.
I had a small car accident today.
It was not my car and there was snow everywere.
First of all i had lightning reflexes in a second trying to avoid relatively slow collision.
Secondly.
Within a few seconds I was out of my car.
Could only think of the dude i hit, if he was allright.
There was NO damage. Impossible.
Dude was shook up so was comforting him.
Give all my contact details.
In case he would find damage after all.
I just drove off smiling no stress whatsoever of the accident or fear of the snow.
Later that this night he send me a text message thanking me for my kindness and honesty.
Dunno.
Doesnt matter.
Besides from the labels.
This was a good life experience.
Gratefull.
ah ha ... that is why we practice stillness/meditation ...
Iz plan
Fast but overall stable thoughts and the thoughtprotocols dont overtake me , just like in meditation, friend lobster.
Ive adepted a new communication trick to transfer a thought or feeling in the right way without having to ramble.
The noble art of metaphores
.
I know now , it truely is impossible to directly communicate about internal dharma states. How to describe that what you cannot describe?
That’s why the Buddha has been such a cryptic mofo all the time lol.
Zen & tao poetry, koans too, and metaphores about farmfields and shores and stuff come closest.
Koans can induce the actual feeling cause they are dualistic loopholing mindbrakers. They make no freakin’ sense gotta push through em.
Status update: dharma vibe still going. Sleep 4-7 hours per day now, in 2-3 sessions. Havent meditated in a couple of days, no change yet. Quit smoking sigs, switched to nicotine pills , no change yet. Excersise almost everyday now, no change yet.
Working nightshifts with same amount of sleep incl. patterns, no change yet.
Its like having a giant crush on the universe without the nausea and butterflies. Taking XTC without the physical MDMA responses.
Keep y’all posted
Fascinating @ZendoLord84 - please keep us posted!
Less words, less thoughts .. more awareness. That is the Buddhist path.
Its very encouraging that it seems to be stable. How is your connection with the dharma while you are feeling like this? Is there any change to how you felt or what you thought you knew?
Jim Carrey put it nicely, he said "I used to be a guy experiencing the universe and now I feel like the universe experiencing a guy, so there's been a shift there."
It is hard to put into words, the feeling that comes from seeing through labels, borders and concepts because any description is conceptual, needs to be labeled and is rooted in duality.
It sounds like you're being super mindful of what is going on and that's great. Personally, I would chaulk it up to the practice and try to remember to be as kind as possible and not to let it get to my head. Remember, we are still experiencing duality and samsara whether we see through it or not and these rolls do not always last. If you find that you still screw up from time to time, that's ok.
Walking one foot in the absolute and objective knowing we inter-are, while the other is experiencing subjectivity, developing the insight of Interbeing, compassion and using duality as a tool of exploration is the path I see going to the Buddha, Sangha and the teachings as refuge.
I've decided the best thing for me to do with these kinds of events/states is to just keep looking deeper and helping. Keeping our wisdom and compassion ratio at 1:1 should help us keep our advancements from getting to our heads while working for the betterment of the community/society rather than selfish goals.
I really just wanted to post the Jim Carrey quote but came here right after a very good sit.
Thanks.
The Dharma is everything lol...there is dharma everywere, all the time.
Dharma is the like the riverbed in which the tao stream flows.
Both can exist seperately but when combined the magic starts lol.
Yes, im starting to lessen my rationalisation of this stuff.
Its all about balanced duality and kindness. I am duality.
Been dating/connecting a bit but I confuse woman hahahaha.
.
Men in general arent attributed duality.
It's all good.
No attachment.
Yang needs a Yin
Human nature.
Been attracting damaged goods, un-attended suffering, need stable instability in a woman.
I'm going deeper yeah and its nice.
Still sleeping 4-6 hrs max a go.
Dharma state flowing.
Hmmm, my father, who is generally a very spiritual guy, also has this need to have a woman in his life. He can’t just live by himself, when his last relationship ended he went searching and he found a new one. So you’re not alone when you say “yang needs a yin”, even in advanced spiritual circles.
Yeah its gut/core feeling, not gonna supress it.
Urge for poring out is diminishing rapidly.
That part was ego lol.
Mind was trying to grasp wtf was happening.
Dharma state unchanged, synchronicity in full effect.
Confidence solidified, joy almost constant despite the sufferings of life.
This is a good way to live and I feel like a good man.
Dharma is form, tao/flow is emptyness.
Dharma is the academic knowledge to gain insight in reality etc. This knowledge needs to sink in opening up space to experience tao flow (structured intuition).
Dharma first, tao second. It wouldnt work the other way around it seems.
When dharma and tao are balanced a limitless energy is created. Like with the god particle.
That particle is the scientific proof yin / yang , tao, dharma etc exists. Harmonieus duality.
Like a deja-vu sensation, without pulling you out of the present moment focus. This kinda subdues after a while into the background. Becoming ‘normal’
Fin
Do you keep a journal? These kinds of writings are always interesting to read back a few months later, then you can see if you still think the same things or in the same way.
ive been posting bout this stuff several years back on this forum as I can recall...hasn't changed much...
State unchanged. Sleeping improved 7 solid hrs per night. Experience all sorts of normal life problems like any other person, but the positive/joy keeps being dominant.
One of the greatest challenges that I've had since having the experience that I alluded to in this post and explained elsewhere, is that the samsaric world had gotten larger for me. Not long ago, if I was not vigilant, I could be lured away from mindfulness by any one of a million pleasant distractions. Now there are a million and one pleasant distractions - and this one is a whole new level of pleasure. The desire to embrace, experience and cling to this latest experience feels stronger than the desire I had to embrace, experience and cling to that cute girl in my science class back in 7th grade while I was drowning in the Sea of Puberty.
Have you experienced something similar?
@yagr
This is one of the reasons why a credible teacher will try to instill an understanding in their students, that any sizeable spiritual awakening is actually as much an experience of some transcendence of sufferings cause as it is a gauntlet thrown down in front of any of ones ripening or trailing karma.
I know you're asking @ZendoLord84 and I look forward to hearing their response but I felt like sharing as well.
I have, but the desire to cling is the desire to cling and I have to ask myself - Can we be of service to others while clinging to our own experience of non-duality?
There is a time and place for everything and many people are still suffering.
Rivers and mountains must once again be as rivers and mountains and the wheel could still use turning.
Even if we have to get out and push.
Friend Yagr,
I do not have a similar experience.
I cant be bothered with Netflix anymore, games etc.
Just want to connect with people.
I just do my housekeeping, workout, admin, and some meditation, work, kid visits, thats about it.
Doing the above is fine and good and nice enough.
I do have a connection with a fine female specimen, but we just send txt messages and call. Havent even met.
I got the most life fullment atm connection with all sorts of people in all sorts of situations.
Im actually curieus when this state gonna end. Its not particulary nice or bad. Doesnt feel like clinging atm.
Helping people....pfff im just nice and confident in my being. Often thats enough to create some freedom in their rigid ways. However when i notice they start to cling on me i gotta shake em loose...gently
Heya friends.
I've been diagnosed with a (mild) form of autism.
Hilarious.
Sure as hell explains why i suck a metta meditation hahaha.
But also why I find the cryptic poem like style of the buddha's teachings......not cryptic.
They are really easy to understand.
Well at least I think they are easy to understand, apart from truely feeling some sort of empathy outside of myself.
Under pressure I can start showing signs of unstability while internally remaining pretty stable in my thinking processes. Just like I described in previous posts.
Anyways.
I can go on now and live my life as a happy little lay-buddhist weirdo.
After some partially effective (social) rehabilition.
Im kinda like Data from Star Trek, with a bit more facial expressions,
Aha, they suspected I had something similar, which is why I underwent a huge battery of tests, but in the end they said it was all inconclusive.
We all have these little quirks. I recall seeing in the documentary Crazywise that the DSM, the book they use to diagnose people with all kinds of mental disorders, has expanded from 106 conditions in 1985 to 365 in 2006, and that if all of those criteria were applied that hardly anyone would not have a diagnosis of some sort.
Be happy with your uniqueness!
Tee Hee!
Good advice.
An experience may be central but its expression is unique. This is why it is better to listen to those who are ethical and virtuous, even if asleep. Doing the right thing is good. Bad behaviour is bad. You should be able to perceive an awakened state in others. Where and how this happens varies. Some are in a temporary condition and go back to sleep.
Always do good. Always be kind. Be open.
Yeah basically i dont have to change a great deal about myself or my spirituality or…whatever. Apart from some meltdown-tools when im under a lot of pressure lol.
It makes me even more epic. I always liked my weirdness but teachers and managers and friends and gf’s did not all too often. A label helps.
I did not conclude this autism stuff by myself. I deduced some weird patterns in interrelational communication leading to tantrums making me look and act partly like my 2-yr old.
When a clinical psychologist pointed out its proberbly autism and not adhd per se, suddenly i found a disorder traits list the fitted.
Whatever
I hope i can forget all this one day
Yes. But let's not add dementia to the mix. Welcome to the crazy world. I often find it's the most sane place to be. And the Normal world truly stinks at times. I celebrate peculiarities, being fairly replete with them, myself. High Five, at a safe social distance, @ZendoLord84 ...!