The false dilemma of free will or no
David
A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
Hello Sangha;
I was just on another thread and was thinking of how free will and no-free will could be seen as another example of a false dilemma or two more of Nagarjunas Negations.
The reasoning being that we are not exactly and absolutely separate processes or beings and are not even absolutely separate from the environment we find ourselves in. Also in conjunction with constant change, we are conditional beings that depend on everything else working in unison (Dependant Origination). How could our decision making ability be any less so? We have neither free will nor no-free will... We have conditional will. The Wright Brothers did not just sprout wings.
Human vs nature? There is no vs. Humans either work with nature or not at all.
So many false dichotomies at play when we examine the nature of Interbeing.
Comments
Well said. Also it's a very circular argument.
One man says "I believe in free will. All my choices are mine." Another may say, "I believe that God's plan is already in place and is simply unfolding in space and time."
But where did these beliefs come from? Unlikely that we get to pick our beliefs out from a soul menu before we are born.
The different perceptions must have arisen through the conditions experienced by each person.
And how did those conditions come about? And around and around it goes.
I tend to see these theory's as the misdirection's of a mind not wanting anyone questioning its role in their storyline. It's like watching a murder mystery whose endless twists & turns were created solely to extend a simple story away from the real perpetrator...the story teller. Stimulating...yes, an advancement along the path towards suffering's cessation...no.
To the degree that all the participants (the 6 sense gates) are allowed an unhindered existence on life's stage is the degree to which the mind is no longer taxed beyond its capacity with unenviable task of empire building or the cheerleading of its story telling.
Why do you believe that this is unlikely?
Good point. As Voltaire once said, "It is not more surprising to be born twice than once; everything in nature is resurrection.”
Why should we not also be influenced conditionally thus-wise?
Hmm well my attempt was to be comically literal, as in standing in line at McSoul's and saying "I'll take a belief in free will with a side of cynicism, please."
But my sincere inkling is that, being that we are cells in our father and mother, who were cells in their father and mother, etc., that beliefs come through (generally) direct experience. Now, if beliefs are stored in our ancestors' cells as a kind of karmic DNA, I don't know. That's another thread.
Who is in prison? Tsk, tsk!
Where is the warder?
Nobody escapes a sufficiently open prison
Well it seems that neuroscience has already proved that most decisions are made in the brain before we are consciously aware of it, by about 150 milliseconds. So it seems there is no such thing as an I where the I is ‘in control’.
It can't be in control because of all the environmental variants that it is not really seperate from which include other sentient beings trying to be in control. It can only do what it can with what it has to work with at the time.
Conditional will.
An article in Quanta from 2019 has this to say:
Those few milliseconds is where our Buddhist or Mindfulness training comes in. This is where we break habits and notice the conditioned responses. The more we notice, the quicker we notice. The quicker we notice, the less we react from conditioned response. The article goes on to say:
https://qz.com/1569158/neuroscientists-read-unconscious-brain-activity-to-predict-decisions/
This finding doesn't negate free will, it negates the sense of seperation. That's pretty cool.
What I find funny is both these jokers could be right. Everything could have all been predetermined and boring so we came along as part of the scheme to mix it up a bit. Our decision making ability maybe makes things a bit more exciting.
Free will could really be the predetermined plan, hahaha.
We do love our stories.
It does seem like there is a gap there. Even if hard determinism still rules the day though, it seems to me like the occurrence of conscious awareness of a mental states would also be a conditional factor in the workings of will. So at the very least conscious awareness frees us from being total slaves to unconscious factors.
This is kind of where I am in my opinions at the moment. Just because a thought or emotion is formed in ways that are unconscious to us doesn't mean that they aren't still us. Or the way external factors influence and direct us, they still influence one individual differently than another when the external world interacts with a individual mind.
There's an important difference between deciding to jump into a lake and being pushed into a lake in terms of external influences.
Predetermined: The direction we are headed predetermined by genes and circumstance of birth coupled with every vector we have taken to this point. Free will - let's change the flight path, now.
It has always been a mix and always will be a mix. We as a species are predetermined to frequently alter course. We are predetermined to free will.
Peace to all
So free will is something we can develope through intent and practice. At that rate it would seem inevitable.
@Person;
I agree. And the gap isn't really that small. In the world of quanta, a few milliseconds can be a lifetime.
@David
Ah, the inevitability of free will.
Well, I can't fly yet without some kind of extension but don't worry, I test by jumping up, not off.
We are a mix of free will and the limitations of genetic and culture. the "Dilemma" is merely a mental game. We are, as human beings, unable to naturally fly. Yet, with machines, we fly. We can not, naturallly, run as fast as a horse. So, we ride the horse. We are an amalgum. Elements of us are fixed, and elemints are limitless.
It is a just mind game.
We go where the mind dictates. In Buddhism that is a broad extension. It includes: