Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Life death and rebirth

sciencebuffsciencebuff San Francisco, California New

For the longest time I had the interpretation of reality that life was half pleasure/life and half pain/death and that rebirth was at best neutral or the background in which this happened. It really disturbed me to live in a world of half pain. Is this really the nature of things or is rebirth good too and things are at least 2/3 good and 1/3 bad?

Shoshin1

Comments

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    If you're in the context of rebirth, karma is in the mix. In that sense the ratio of pleasure/pain is related to your karma.

    More than a metaphysical worldview Buddhism offers practices to swing that ratio in your favor over time and ultimately free yourself fully from the game.

    Shoshin1Vastmindlobster
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran

    @sciencebuff said:
    For the longest time I had the interpretation of reality that life was half pleasure/life and half pain/death and that rebirth was at best neutral or the background in which this happened. It really disturbed me to live in a world of half pain. Is this really the nature of things or is rebirth good too and things are at least 2/3 good and 1/3 bad?

    If you care about your happiness and actively work to gain happiness and shed unhappiness, you can create a life that during your productive adult years is at least 80% happy. During the later years of your life it depends a lot on how your health develops, a long-term illness can present major challenges.

    lobster
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    Another thought. There are different sorts of suffering, there's the actual event and then there is what we make of it in our mind, what sort of context the painful event exists in.

    For example, if we go to the gym and wake up sore the next morning. That pain doesn't cause much mental suffering because we understand its cause and the bigger picture benefit it will bring. If we woke up one morning and just felt like that we'd probably start freaking out and go to the doctor.

    When we accept that life contains some level of dissatisfaction and unpleasantness, when difficulties happen we can meet them with a greater degree of equanimity. If we feel that things should generally be good and easy, inevitable difficulties will generate more mental suffering.

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    I had the interpretation of reality

    It is the other way around. The interpretation had you. It is only 'correct' for you and the time you have it. Same for everyone.

    person
  • sciencebuffsciencebuff San Francisco, California New

    @lobster said:

    I had the interpretation of reality

    It is the other way around. The interpretation had you. It is only 'correct' for you and the time you have it. Same for everyone.

    I guess what has concerned me often is that that interpretation is not under my control. I was concerned for a very long time about the possibility that there is no free will but I'll address that in another post for other people like me who think too much.

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    Through practice, mainly meditation, we learn that:
    1. Our mind and other factors such as the body control us
    2. Thinking too much is not the only option
    3. We have a lot less will power (concentration) than we think...

  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited September 4

    @sciencebuff said:
    For the longest time I had the interpretation of reality that life was half pleasure/life and half pain/death and that rebirth was at best neutral or the background in which this happened. It really disturbed me to live in a world of half pain. Is this really the nature of things or is rebirth good too and things are at least 2/3 good and 1/3 bad?

    Why not good all the time?
    Because that is simply not possible for everything that arises comes to an end.
    You sit for too long and your butt hurts, you walk and sooner or later your leg hurts.
    Sitting, standing, walking or lying... you can get no satisfaction.
    Unrealistic expectations leads to stress.

    https://home.csulb.edu/~wweinste/HsinHsinMing.html

    The Great Way* is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for, or against, anything. To set up what you like against what you dislike is the disease of the mind. When the deep meaning of things is not understood, the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.

    lobsterpersonFosdick
  • Just a thought:
    Buddhism is not about suffering.
    Yes, we recognize suffering as manifest in our lives.
    Famously, there are the Four Great Sufferings of birth, sickness, old age, and death.
    However, we come to see these sufferings as manifest from our fundamental darkness (ignorance).
    Through our Buddhist practice, we begin to awaken to the reality that, while suffering may be a part of life, it is our ignorance or fundamental darkness which is the root of our suffering.
    We,through our practice and study change the sufferings, though they may indeed be painful in the moment, into great joy. Loss becomes the source of gain.
    We overcome the suffering to bring forth the great joy, treasure of life and our oneness with all life and our environment.
    When we face hardship, suffering, we find it is not suffering, but opportunity to grow, to "change our karma", to "Change poison to medicine". We come to value life with all it's imperfections. We emerge from the Fundamental Darkness into the Wondrous Light of the life of a Bodhisattva, of a Buddha.
    Each moment is a moment to embrace, to nourish our lives, to celebrate life, regardless of outward appearances, as we are.
    Buddhism is about opening up to, embracing and celebrating the wonder, the beauty, the splendor which is life, and sharing, celebrating life with others.

    Peace to all

    lobsterpaulysotooperson
  • Shoshin1Shoshin1 Sentient Being Oceania Veteran
    edited September 4

    @sciencebuff said:
    like me who think too much.

    It's not that you actually think too much—thoughts are constantly arising, one after the other. The issue is the lack of space, in the form of awareness, between these thoughts. The "sense of self," or the "I," becomes fused with the thoughts. There's no breathing room between the sense of self and the thoughts themselves.

    This continuous fusion means that the sense of self becomes the thought, and the thought then assumes it is the thinker. In reality, the only 'thinker' behind the thought is the thought itself, which has hijacked the sense of self, taking it on a ride.

    At first, this might not make much sense, but after a while, when this food for thought has been thoroughly chewed over, the penny will drop.

    Or to put it in a way which is easier on the thoughts...

    It’s not that you think far too much,
    thoughts keep flowing, they’re always in touch.

    But the space in between, where awareness should be,
    is missing, and that’s where the problem we see.

    The "I" that you feel, this sense of your self,
    gets fused with each thought, placed high on the shelf.

    No breathing room there, between thought and the self,
    and so, thoughts take over, claiming their wealth.

    This fusion means "I" becomes just the thought,
    and that thought thinks it’s thinking, but really, it’s caught.

    For the thought is the "thinker," hijacking your mind,
    taking "you" on a journey, a ride that’s unkind.

    At first, it may seem that it’s hard to make sense,
    but chew on this thought, and with time, recompense.

    When the penny drops, and the truth’s in your sight,
    you’ll see through the fusion, and step into the light.

    lobsterpersonpaulysotoosciencebuff
  • @sciencebuff said:
    I guess what has concerned me often is that that interpretation is not under my control.

    Whose control is it under?

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    @Lionduck said:
    Just a thought:
    Buddhism is not about suffering.
    Yes, we recognize suffering as manifest in our lives.
    Famously, there are the Four Great Sufferings of birth, sickness, old age, and death.
    However, we come to see these sufferings as manifest from our fundamental darkness (ignorance).
    Through our Buddhist practice, we begin to awaken to the reality that, while suffering may be a part of life, it is our ignorance or fundamental darkness which is the root of our suffering.
    We,through our practice and study change the sufferings, though they may indeed be painful in the moment, into great joy. Loss becomes the source of gain.
    We overcome the suffering to bring forth the great joy, treasure of life and our oneness with all life and our environment.
    When we face hardship, suffering, we find it is not suffering, but opportunity to grow, to "change our karma", to "Change poison to medicine". We come to value life with all it's imperfections. We emerge from the Fundamental Darkness into the Wondrous Light of the life of a Bodhisattva, of a Buddha.
    Each moment is a moment to embrace, to nourish our lives, to celebrate life, regardless of outward appearances, as we are.
    Buddhism is about opening up to, embracing and celebrating the wonder, the beauty, the splendor which is life, and sharing, celebrating life with others.

    Peace to all

    lionduck you are marvel. love your poet bodhi. change pain to gain is like save your pennys for a rainy day our mom would say.our buddhism message invest in your self....what you find is Love, like the 5th Buddha,Love sent, wink at sam-sara africa....grains of time. What a beautiful day the lion roar in our bodhi.life on, so on...walking to what DaoZen is, karma interplace on earth light of day.

    Lionduck
  • sciencebuffsciencebuff San Francisco, California New
    edited September 5

    @Steve_B said:

    @sciencebuff said:
    I guess what has concerned me often is that that interpretation is not under my control.

    Whose control is it under?

    My understanding is: no one's, ever. Otherwise we could all just control ourselves into infinite happiness, all the time. That obviously isn't the case.

    On the other hand "resigning" your self to infinite happiness isn't an instant cure either, nor even a long term one, for most people.

    Yet both of these can yield some fruit.

    As far as I can tell, it seems consciousness is ruled by a set of laws outside itself, that it is completely at the mercy of, yet the laws are consciousness itself.

    lobsterShoshin1
  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    Law of consciousness is already address by Buddha.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    framework: change, imperminence, and ultimately non intrinsinct,nonself.In example the brain is non intrinsinct, here and there, imperment interperminent occurence no locality to be found. at the end the day,nothing new under the sun, Buddha knows in his samstate

    other way, e-go in brain has a dual interface, 6 senses recombinate it self to frame a sense of reality that e-go can coopwerate with, but deeper in seeing is empty.

    in the end, Buddha wins. Sam NOU Earth chose him to find the keys of recycling circle square conumdrum, fun stuff.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    playing with my brain. circle is brain, the square is body, both obey the natural law of science. as a buddhist main point, appreciate the natural law of change, the blessing of impermenance, and nonself relax into it all.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    the summary of buddhism:change is inevitiable, suffering is optional

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    @paulysotoo said:
    playing with my brain. circle is brain, the square is body, both obey the natural law of science. as a buddhist main point, appreciate the natural law of change, the blessing of impermenance, and nonself relax into it all.

    putting earthly terms

    law of change: no two days is the same. Each day is rebirth day in and out for all. How you set the day, is your business. volition--free choice numerous--is change your mind interplay.

    law of imperminance: growth and change in us all is life. and knowing things change and inmerminance allow us play 6 sense organ. allow seeing everything has a begining and end makes life managable. play of change and end is fun, like eat icecream in an moment and exercise the next makes life colorful.

    Law of nonself: when we dont take our ego seriosly life is wonderful.middle way--aware key--self and nonself.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    the law of nonself is applicable to the christian,or like to say,christzen-- coined by shoshin1--view. die to self, in buddhist term, lessen the three poison of ego:hatred/aversion,delusion/ignorance,greed/grasping,cling.

    so the spirit of the law is in christian and buddhist practices. personaly,my aim is ok ego, in christian humility, not puff up but useful to let holy spirit/breath teach me the good way of the lotuscross bread,

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    my last take on Jesus Diety,Dao,Dharma teaching. He was the epitamy of the great bodhisattva--setting aside his sambodhi buddha status-- show surrender the self is like and was crucified. But Justice Earth God destroyed the roman empire. Karma is a Bitch if you tick off Earth chosen one be it Sidhartha or jesus her wrath is called justice

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    last thought on the matter, tantra technique to be one with your teacher, be it jesus or siddhatha, what would they do. tantra cycle: be and do, hence christlike and buddhalike happens.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    the 5th buddha:
    [

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    Hope to be his diciple in Sunyata. may-tay-awe serve our heart,

  • Shoshin1Shoshin1 Sentient Being Oceania Veteran

    @sciencebuff said:
    For the longest time I had the interpretation of reality that life was half pleasure/life and half pain/death and that rebirth was at best neutral or the background in which this happened. It really disturbed me to live in a world of half pain. **Is this really the nature of things or is rebirth good too and things are at least 2/3 good and 1/3 bad?

    A wise Bodhisattva once said: (Roshi Willy Shakespeare )

    "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so”

    Allow awareness to choose your thoughts wisely...

    personlobster
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited September 7

    Why suffer endlessly around the mentality of life, death and rebirth, when some acceptance of each bare moment freely offers up the answers to what we'd usually prefer not to face.

    lobster
  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran
    edited September 8

    sunyata:

    for us in bodhi--heart sutra
    object of samsara, hourglass full and empty

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    ...emptyness is the kiss of nirvana,our bodhi gets an upgrade. the student live in sambodhi where the six paramitas is fine tune, what dao called effertless effort. you become an intuitive wise empath.

    your six senses is one with dao or dharma. and with this samstate luck and fate interwine in your daily life. in zen, with empty mind, potential and results in our action as so be it or is that so attitude. look i found a penny. how so, keepin on, keepin on. its a mind that meet conditions as is, o well to i care in accordence to train the bodhi to be wise compassionate person to pick your to choose to act/respond or stay in bodhi rest in sunyata. thats the human bedhisatva and wakehistatva balance state.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    about determinism and volition is been addressed by buddha, in sun-day-yata you arrive at chan/zen knowing Sam-who is Sara reining cosmos laws of dao/dharma in S.A.M N.O.U . dependent origination to the dynamic play of the triple jewel of reality: change, imperminance and non substantial self.

    to know the all is to be all.when you samstate into samestate you are one with it all

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    as i said, im of the 4th set, buddha shaki. even dao / dharma is address by christian view,in the gospel of thomas. the dao/dharma is rest and motion lotus cross, is passerby in mind and flow with life

    the buddha nature or christ nature is rich in bodhi sunyata. jesus said if you dont know-ignorance, whats in you cant save you, your in poverty. but if you know yourself enjoy you buddha/christ nature prepare by earth.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    heart sutra, sung by plum village:
    [

    how to rest mind : breathe. breath awareness lead to cessation of brain production of thought content. aspect of focus awareness. with training you reach natural awareness of thought, dependent on all 6 condition senses, reach a zen mind aware rest and flow.

    in my zen meditation, i just sit, and let all the senses be. of course took years of cultivation. then i do stuff like work with regulating breath awareness. when brain is stress, breathe intently and observe the law of imperminence, a breginning,middle and end. when stress subside continue the day.

    so my zen is be/sit and do. daozen is to exercise your whole being. the body is the vehicle of awakening to life on our Buddha Sam Earth

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    the dao/dharma is a dynamic expression in emptyness. once we realise our body brain is dharma our buddha nature begin to shine in sundayyata. we are rest--peace of mind--and have our being--do--with the earth.

    yes, eventualy, some will a..rive my dao zen humor, samstate=samestate. we are the same, no one higher or lower, but = that S.a.m N.o.u want us to be, yourself bodhi.

  • paulysotoopaulysotoo usa Veteran

    final thoughts, when we see each others as same, from the dharma law, we can play my higher game sam-e^3. that game we enlighten together in our buddha nature.

    i will be frank this dao/dharma u-niverse will only serve those who serve the law of one or equality. may all be one--together share each others brain bodhi for the collective good.

    as we develop our bodhi, awareness with help with discernment who is for equalty plus equality and who wants to lord over others in the human game of fuck you its about my needs and no one else. in emptyness the law of karma is seen. the selfish is not one of us and leave that person to his own devise knowing he operated on a narcistice ego hord game. the dharma reality of bad karma will fuck him up. hense lost in samsara dukkha states.read people, and action speaks louder than words to decide who is friend and who we let go

    when im of old age my dharma will be dao. dao is actually the hardest religion to embody. all in all. it ask Mu=Um. in Dao=emptiness of the nature of Supreame M.O.M(mother of means) in this modern era i called S.A.M. N.O.U which was called in buddhist the dharmakaya Sambodhi. her game is the ineffable which we arrive at dao buddhist noble silent. even i can't play that game. its for her children GodBuddhas to play like shiva or tara

Sign In or Register to comment.