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@Jeroen said:

@person said:
What you're describing sounds like what Tibetan Buddhists consider guru devotion. They generally think of it as the swiftest and easiest path. There are great stories like Tilopa and Naropa or Milarepa and Marpa. They do say to carefully examine a teacher before entering a relationship like this, as a bad teacher can lead you astray and do harm. Which I suppose is a sort of rationality as a gateway to letting that go.

You can’t say that I carefully examined him, by any means. If I had, my natural caution might have turned me away. But by just jumping in the deep end and saying “yes” age 6 and following my parents I did not do too badly.

I'd say you were lucky. What if your parents joined David Koresh instead?

I do wonder how many great zen stories start with the student carefully and rationally examining the prospective master, not many I’m guessing. I think it’s simpeler than “carefully examining” with rational means. Osho said “any master in whose presence you can fly high will be good”, and while Osho was definitely that, there was love too.

In the TB examples I gave there really wasn't much of an examination either. I think people here are wise and experienced enough to avoid the cults. But I'll say for any lurkers or potential Googlers, that in addition to good teachers there are a lot of toxic, harmful teachers and groups one can uncritically give their love and trust to that will lead to misery.

In my early spiritual years I knew someone who claimed a guru she followed harmed her psychically and she was now in a physically drained and disabled state. Sogyal Rinpoche, Sasaki Roshi, Asaram Bapu, Jim Jones, etc, etc.

What you're describing sounds like what Tibetan Buddhists consider guru devotion. They generally think of it as the swiftest and easiest path. There are great stories like Tilopa and Naropa or Milarepa and Marpa. They do say to carefully examine a teacher before entering a relationship like this, as a bad teacher can lead you astray and do harm. Which I suppose is a sort of rationality as a gateway to letting that go.

Recently I have been reading a book called The Life of Osho by a disciple by the name of Sam (self published, freely downloadable here), and it has actually stirred up a whole bunch of thoughts. It made me examine my process in listening to Osho. In the book, Sam tries to examine Osho’s life from a rational standpoint. Osho was well-known for using devices, something he picked up from George Gurdjieff, and Sam extends this to things like Osho’s change in image on going to America, the Rolls Royces, his period of silence, his asking his sannyasins to drop the red clothes, and so on.

I struggled for a bit with this looking for reasons behind Osho doing these things. In the end to me it felt like approaching a relationship which was “of the heart” with reason, and that somehow got in the way. It got the mind involved in the connection with Osho. For me, the relationship with Osho was one of love. It is like looking at a foto of Ramana Maharshi and instantly liking him because of his smile and his eyes, Osho in person was like that. It is a relationship one cherishes, despite the devices.

Buddhism is in many ways simpler. In many streams of Buddhism you can rationally approach the teachings and the path, in most cases they will even be explained to you. Except if you’re following a Zen teacher — a lot of Zen is quite irrational. Which is perhaps why it is no longer as popular as say the Pure Land schools. A short story about Zen…

When Rinzai lay dying, his disciples approached him with a last request. “Master,” they said, “your teachings are so many, so deep, that we feel we can’t summarise them. Would you give us a one sentence summary, so that we may treasure it?”
After a moment, Rinzai then let out a great shout, a lion’s roar. The disciples were shocked that the old man could produce such a noise. Silence descended.
Then Rinzai said, “This is it!” And he closed his eyes and died.

So whether you’re following a Zen teacher or Osho, it’s much the same affair. There is an edge of irrationality, of shock, of devices being deployed. In this age of reason it’s a rare path. Which may explain why Osho spoke almost exclusively on Zen in the last years of his life.

For a disciple it’s about love and trust. A love for the master and trust that he means well, whichever direction he chooses to guide you in.