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@Jeroen said:
The mind is concerned with survival, it assesses threats and that is why it wants to have a clear idea of the strength of mind and body. It’s one reason why the mind likes playing games and likes winning, because that means it can increase its confidence in successfully dealing with threats. I need to be able to say no to things that would harm "me" and yes to things that would help.

That degree of high confidence is what’s commonly called “ego strength” because it determines how likely you are to push ahead with your own ideas in the face of opposition. It’s a sign of people who have either rarely experienced failure or have always dealt successfully with threats.

In computer games, there are often a lot of direct threats to life, other characters with weapons or vicious creatures with sharp claws and teeth. But death is not usually a huge penalty, unlike in the real world where penalties can be more significant. So it’s a learning experience, but you don’t learn the price of failure.

So games can artificially build one’s confidence in some areas, was my thought.

Does that make sense to you?

Yes, but it kind of seems like a necessary thing to living in the world. I have one regular client who would qualify as having an excessive amount of ego strength (she has plenty of good qualities too). If I surrendered all of mine, she would push me around and use me up, ego strength doesn't have a categorically bad connotation to me. I need to be able to say no to things that would harm "me" and yes to things that would help.

I think that leads me to some insight I've had about my own relation to games this latest go around has brought. I've abandoned the sort of monastic ideal of renunciation and retreat for a more engaged life. Inevitably its a samsaric life that will fall, but I do my best to find a healthy balance by accentuating and encouraging positive aspects and diminishing the negative. So with games rather than abandon them on the whole I do my best to engage with the healthier aspects and avoid the negative ones.

Another insight is that there is a game I've largely avoided most of my life that I still have little interest in. That's the social status game, even though I could afford it, I drive my messy work truck everywhere rather than owning a second vehicle because I'd rather have the security and added free time that that money could buy than looking good for other people.

@Jeroen reminds me of my former hobby of painting. Once it became goal driven "getting better" it was no longer fun.

@person said:

@Jeroen said:
That comes pretty close to my current take on computer games. All games are just play with added rules and goals for winning and losing. It is surplus to the spiritual path, but it is also the serious aspect of mind, there is little of laughter or joy to be found in it. The best you can do is play optimally, it is an efficiency problem which makes the mind happy.

However, the mind’s happiness is a small satisfaction, it is the ego’s pleasure at winning. It is not true, lasting happiness, although some might take it for that. Board games, sports, all that is giving mind and body something to do. Perhaps social aspects give them something positive.

I suspect this may have much to do with the way you personally relate to games. The framing you're putting on them have little resemblance to the way I've related to them. With the exception of individualized computer games like World of Warcraft which have been soul sucking for me.

Maybe its a bit like the martial arts thread? Certainly there are lots of ways to practice martial arts that have a negative spiritual effect. Does that mean that's what martial arts are, full stop?

Ah yes, the same thing is "poison to some, medicine to some..." And the same thing manifests differently as poison or medicine in various phases of life... Maybe we just tend to overdo a thing, or get attached, which is when it moves into the poison territory?

@Jeroen said:
That comes pretty close to my current take on computer games. All games are just play with added rules and goals for winning and losing. It is surplus to the spiritual path, but it is also the serious aspect of mind, there is little of laughter or joy to be found in it. The best you can do is play optimally, it is an efficiency problem which makes the mind happy.

However, the mind’s happiness is a small satisfaction, it is the ego’s pleasure at winning. It is not true, lasting happiness, although some might take it for that. Board games, sports, all that is giving mind and body something to do. Perhaps social aspects give them something positive.

I suspect this may have much to do with the way you personally relate to games. The framing you're putting on them have little resemblance to the way I've related to them. With the exception of individualized computer games like World of Warcraft which have been soul sucking for me.

Maybe its a bit like the martial arts thread? Certainly there are lots of ways to practice martial arts that have a negative spiritual effect. Does that mean that's what martial arts are, full stop?

Like I said I think this has much to do with the way you, and perhaps lots of other people, relate to games. Games have taught me much about teamwork, camaraderie, good sportsmanship (the ability to not be so hurt at a loss or smug about a win, which happens all the time in life). In my experience games are fun and light, they teach valuable life skills about interacting with others in fair and just ways.