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@Jeroen said:
Actually, I used to study at a Gelug Temple and made some good friends there. Although the subject of deities, spirits, whatever you choose to call them, did not come up at the time.

And it shouldn't have. Dharmapalas are tantric deities - Vajrayana - and the practices surrounding them are esoteric.

So I gotta ask, and with all due respect, why are you discussing something you seem to know little or nothing about except for what you got from Wikipedia?

And it's not what you, or I choose to call them. They are Deities.

We need to call and end to it. Once and for all. Let it be said, that the USA will protect Palestine as well as Israel. Let them live together, in peace, or Israel will stand alone.

Yes I couldn't agree more...

This present Israeli government and successive Israeli governments (the present one seems to be the most extreme), with the help of their Western allies, are doing more harm to Jewish people around the world and to their own Israeli citizens...

Anti-Semitism is on the rise. People who are not anti-Semites are increasingly becoming anti-Israeli, where they see Israelis and the Israeli government as one entity, making no distinction between the two, especially after witnessing the appalling behavior of 'some" Israeli troops...

Israeli Jews living abroad and non-Israeli Jews are feeling unsafe and no doubt some fear for their lives, all thanks to the actions of Netanyahu's government...

Not only is anti-Semitism on the rise, but Islamophobia is as well. Some Western governments are passing laws that not only impact citizen's rights (for example, the right of pro-Palestinian groups to peacefully protest), but also affect local Muslim communities...

A timely reminder of the Middle Way...

I remember way back when an American Baseball team with nothing but Triple A payers was upgraded to the Major League. They were grossly outclassed by the the entire league. But the were fun to watch as they were somewhat unpredictable. One time, the center fielder snagged the ball way back (deep) in Center Field. He knew the runner was going fot home and the run. Normally, because of the distance, a fielder would throw the ball to the second baseman or the short stop (both infielders) who would the rifle it to the catcher. However, as he knew that would give the runner time to beat the throw, he instead, in a remarkable play, threw the ball straight to the catcher just in time for the catcher to tag the runner out. They still lost the game, but play had everybody on their feet. For many of the fans, that one play was worth the admission.
Of course, eventually, through experience and acquisitions, the Angels became a championship team. But that single play remains one for the books.

The Great Way is not difficult
for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent
everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however,
and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

If you wish to see the truth
then hold no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike
is the disease of the mind.
When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.

The Way is perfect like vast space
where nothing is lacking and nothing in excess.
Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject
that we do not see the true nature of things.

Live neither in the entanglements of outer things,
nor in inner feelings of emptiness.
Be serene in the oneness of things and such
erroneous views will disappear by themselves.

When you try to stop activity by passivity
your very effort fills you with activity.
As long as you remain in one extreme or the other
you will never know Oneness.

Those who do not live in the single Way
fail in both activity and passivity,
assertion and denial.
To deny the reality of things
is to miss their reality;
To assert the emptiness of things
is to miss their reality.

The more you talk and think about it,
the further astray you wander from the truth.
Stop talking and thinking,
and there is nothing you will not be able to know.

To return to the root is to find meaning,
but to pursue appearances is to miss the source.
At the moment of inner enlightenment
there is a going beyond appearance and emptiness.
The changes that appear to occur in the empty world
we call real only because of our ignorance.

Do not search for the truth;
only cease to cherish opinions.
do not remain in the dualistic state.
Avoid such pursuits carefully.
If there is even a trace of this and that,
of right and wrong,
the mind-essence will be lost in confusion.

Although all dualities come from the One,
do not be attached even to this One.
When the mind exists undisturbed in the Way,
nothing in the world can offend.
And when a thing can no longer offend,
it ceases to exist in the old way.

When no discriminating thoughts arise,
the old mind ceases to exist.
When thought objects vanish,
the thinking-subject vanishes:
As when the mind vanishes, objects vanish.

Things are objects because of the subject (mind):
the mind (subject) is such because of things (object).
Understand the relativity of these two
and the basic reality: the unity of emptiness.
In this Emptiness the two are indistinguishable
and each contains in itself the whole world.
If you do not discriminate between coarse and fine
you will not be tempted to prejudice and opinion.

To live in the Great Way is neither easy nor difficult.
But those with limited views are fearful and irresolute:
the faster they hurry, the slower they go.
And clinging (attachment) cannot be limited:
Even to be attached to the idea of enlightenment
is to go astray.
Just let things be in their own way
and there will be neither coming not going.
Obey the nature of things (your own nature)
and you will walk freely and undisturbed.

When the thought is in bondage the truth is hidden
for everything is murky and unclear.
And the burdensome practice of judging
brings annoyance and weariness.
What benefit can be derived
from distinctions and separations?

If you wish to move in the One Way
do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas.
Indeed, to accept them fully
is identical with enlightenment.

The wise man strives to no goals
but the foolish man fetters himself.

There is one Dharma, not many.
Distinctions arise
from the clinging needs of the ignorant.
To seek Mind with the (discriminating) mind
is the greatest of all mistakes.

Rest and unrest derive from illusion;
with enlightenment
there is no liking and disliking.
All dualities come from ignorant inference.
They are like dreams or flowers in air -
foolish to try to grasp them.
Gain and loss, right and wrong,
such thoughts must
finally be abolished at once.

If the eye never sleeps,
all dreams will naturally cease.
If the mind makes no discriminations,
the ten thousand things are as they are,
of single essence.
To understand the mystery of this One-essence
is to be released from all entanglements.
When all things are seen equally
the timeless Self-essence is reached,
No comparisons or analogies are possible
in this causeless, relationless state.
Consider movement stationary
and the stationary in motion,
both movement and rest disappear.
When such dualities cease to exist
Oneness itself cannot exist.
To this ultimate finality
no law or description applies.

For the unified mind in accord with the way
all self-centered striving ceases.
Doubts and irresolutions vanish
and life in true faith is possible.
With a single stroke we are freed from bondage:
Nothing clings to us and we hold to nothing.

All is empty, clear, self-illuminating,
with no exertion of the mind's power.
Here thought, feeling,
knowledge and imagination are of no value.

In this world of suchness
there is neither self nor other-than-self.
To come directly into harmony with this reality
just say when doubt rises "not two".
In this "not two" nothing is separate,
nothing is excluded.

No matter when or where,
enlightenment means entering this truth.
And this truth is beyond extension
or diminution in time and space:
In it a single thought is ten thousand years.

Emptiness here, emptiness there,
but the infinite universe
stands always before your eyes.
Infinitely large and infinitely small;
no difference, for definitions have vanished
and no boundaries are seen.

So too with Being and non-Being.
Don't waste time in doubts and arguments
That have nothing to do with this.

One thing, all things,
move among and intermingle without distinction.
To live in this realization
is to be without anxiety about non-perfection.
To live in this faith is the road to non-duality,
because the non-dual is one with the trusting mind.

Words!
The Way is beyond language,
for in it there is
no yesterday
no tomorrow
no today.

~Seng-T'san

@IdleChater said:

@person said:
I mean, the history of tobacco is pretty clear. This teaching on tobacco is presented as a revealed teaching, (a terma) and taught as if its real.

Termas are generally like that, and they sometimes run contrary to mundane knowledge. That does not mean they're untrue. It means you lack understanding of what's being taught. How many termas have you read? If there's a Shambhala center near you, go there and see if you can get a look at Trungpa's terma, the Sadhana of Mahamudra.

I'm pretty sure that PR didn't care about the history of tobacco. Nor does the terma he discovered.

I care. From my perspective its fine and good to have metaphoric teachings that teach an important lesson. I'm a big fan of fantasy and fiction that tell deeper truths. I care, because not being able to distinguish reality from fantasy in a relatively harmless situation as the tobacco teaching creates a state of mind that is more vulnerable to harmful fantasy. Think of how objectionable some modern Christian beliefs are and how gullible its followers are in believing them.

I think its an example of why the Buddha himself taught to test the teachings rather than take them in as a matter of trust or respect in the teacher.

You refer to the Kalama Sutra, right? The teaching of the KS presents specific guidelines how to test a teaching. He did not leave that to our whim.

I'd also add that there is an important distinction between being skeptical and cynical. Skeptical has a test to be passed

I've always felt that what passes for skepticism is more of an excuse to not commit yourself.

One last, when you were in high school, they taught the Speed of Light. 186,000 miles per second. You believe that, right? Did you test that? It's right up there with Pi as important numbers go. Deserves testing, right? With the right equations, you could probably figure it out with the calculator on your cell phone. Have you done that?

There is a certain amount of trust one has to put in knowledge others have come to. I do have faith in the scientific process. I have come to be much more skeptical these days of scientific reporting and individual studies. A rough rubric that I think makes sense is that 90% of what appears in science textbooks is right and 90% of what appears in science journals is wrong or incomplete.

I did spend the formative part of my Buddhist life in Tibetan Buddhism. I've sat at the feet for many hours of Geshes, Rinpoches and college professors. I've come to believe that their words are in fact not the words of a perfect teacher. That in spite of often considerable knowledge and realization they are still human and subject to flaws and misunderstandings. There is a lot I have to learn from them, but taking it in unquestioningly I think is a mistake.

@IdleChater said:

@Jeroen said:
So, @IdleChater, do you believe that tobacco originated from a demon?

No. But I'm not dismissing Rinpoche's teaching because of that, either. But it's not a question of belief.

Can you explain what you mean here. It reads to me like you're saying you do reject the teaching on the origin of tobacco, but then you say you don't dismiss it.

Do you mean you don't take the origin of tobacco literally, but still value the metaphorical or moral message of the teaching? Or something else?

Buddhism isn't defined by anyone's belief. Truth is not defined by anyone's belief.

But what is true? Is something true simply because its Buddhist? What about all the other religion's claims to truth?

If someone takes umbrage over a literal statement without going to the source for clarification, they have a much bigger problem than a lack of understanding.

That's a pretty high bar not to reject or question a teaching unless you can talk directly to the person who said it.

Peace, love and Self Peacing ...