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Re: The real in the here-and-now
Neither trying to think nor trying not to think.
Just sitting with no deliberate thought is the most important aspect of zazen.
What I see as a mind no longer getting to ride roughshod over my other sense gates.
Here, experiencing the body & mind as one, beyond the limitations of the human condition, or our identities storyline, or a self versus others viewpoint, freedom options arise from what might otherwise have been an ego-hobbled existence.
how
Re: The real in the here-and-now
@pegembara said:
the experience of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, and thinking.
Indeed. I have read, I cannot recall exactly where, that the attention should go equally to those six areas, but I have found that thinking absorbs disproportionately large amounts of attention.
When you get close to the body through its kinaesthetic and touch senses, you find it is actually very peaceful and a bit lazy.
Jeroen
Re: The real in the here-and-now
Don't think. Just watch the thinking.
There is no past and no future, only thoughts of the past and thoughts of the future.
What is here and now is the experience of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, and thinking.
The real in the here-and-now
In the past week or so I have been thinking a lot on what is real. So, two things:
- Don’t think, just be. Even the things you think are real in your thoughts, the most real among them, are abstractions and simplifications. So there is no point in looking for real things in your thoughts or memories.
- Find the real in the here-and-now. What is most real is this moment. Don’t pay attention to the mind, be in the moment, as totally as you can. Rest in open awareness.
There was this Zen story. A master and a young monk were walking along a mountain path together. The young monk asked, Master, what is Zen? The master said, do you hear the mountain stream. At first the young monk couldn’t hear it, but as time went by he heard more and more. At last he could say, master, I hear it! The master replied, enter Zen from there.
Jeroen
Re: The don’t know mind
@Jeroen said:
@pegembara said:
“at the core it (the ego) is this compulsion to make everything into a problem to be solved.”I think there is a lot of truth in that. Games are a good answer to that, it’s an endless sequence of little non-stressful conundrums to be solved and acted out. But even if you go beyond that the mind has a certain restlessness, which means that you cannot just do nothing. For me the answer has been to read, which provides just enough busy-ness for the mind to not go crazy.
No wonder it is said that restlessness is one of the last fetters that one removes before full enlightenment or arahantship.
The Pali canon's Sutta Pitaka identifies ten "fetters of becoming":[3]
belief in a self (Pali: sakkāya-diṭṭhi)[4]
doubt or uncertainty, especially about the Buddha's awakeness (vicikicchā)[5]
attachment to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa)[6]
sensual desire (kāmacchando)[7]
ill will (vyāpādo or byāpādo)[8]
lust for material existence, lust for material rebirth (rūparāgo)[9]
lust for immaterial existence, lust for rebirth in a formless realm (arūparāgo)[10]
conceit (māna)[11][12]
restlessness (uddhacca)[13]
ignorance (avijjā)[14]
The don’t know mind
A friend suggested I take a look at this after I posted the Socrates quote “the only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing”. There is a certain irony in attempting to fill up the nothing with more knowledge, but the Zen approach to the don’t-know mind means that after you reach that state of mind, you might see something.
The don’t know mind is actually a state of stopping, because you have reached a point where the mind has given up. It can happen that you acknowledge that you have done everything possible to get a glimpse of enlightenment and your mind and knowledge have failed you. Then for a moment the mind ‘does not know’ how to proceed.
Of course there are things that can stand in the way, pride for one, or an unwillingness to be honest with oneself. The moment can be lost, like so many. But any moment can be an entry point to Zen.
Jeroen
Re: Letting go of games
Hey Jeroen
A sincere Meditation practice can be an odd task for any mind, especially if our developed mentality has been the focal point of our identity.
We are, in a meditation practice, challenging the validity of the storyline of our own conditioning, and thereby threatening the very structure of our ego.
No wonder the twists and turns of our imaginary ego structure, which has provided a facade of stability against the background of life's underlying chaos, is slow to allow its own unraveling towards an impending uncertainty.
Often the greatest obstacle to finding a roots true source was always us, maintaining a greater value on our own mentality, than whatever process might challenge its fiefdom.
how
Re: Ways to spend time
Perhaps that’s true @how… you think you’re busy with spiritual things, talking to spiritual friends and reading spiritual books, but look at it another way, and you’re interacting within a forum - on a screen - and you’re using an ebook reader - on a screen.
It put me in mind of a post I put on Medium, about the kinds of spiritual lives people can lead. For some people the best they can do is sing devotional songs, while other people learn the most from being in a forest listening to the silence. It is a question of knowing yourself and what suits you.
Jeroen