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Re: Following Osho, Zen Buddhism and Being Rational
@Jeroen said:
@person said:
I think people here are wise and experienced enough to avoid the cults. But I'll say for any lurkers or potential Googlers, that in addition to good teachers there are a lot of toxic, harmful teachers and groups one can uncritically give their love and trust to that will lead to misery.In my early spiritual years I knew someone who claimed a guru she followed harmed her psychically and she was now in a physically drained and disabled state. Sogyal Rinpoche, Sasaki Roshi, Asaram Bapu, Jim Jones, etc, etc.
It’s very arguable whether the Osho movement is a cult. It is said that the characteristics of a cult include that they make it difficult to leave and with Osho that’s totally not true, people are free to come and go as they please.
Something for your reflection. I said you were lucky to have been raised in Osho's commune rather than David Koresh's and none of the abusive guru's I listed were Osho. So any imputation of that sentiment in my words solely comes from your own psyche. I imagine the cult label has been thrown at you at times through your life. I'm just saying its probably a place in need of healing and growth.
person
Re: Following Osho, Zen Buddhism and Being Rational
@person said:
Something for your reflection. I said you were lucky to have been raised in Osho's commune rather than David Koresh's and none of the abusive guru's I listed were Osho. So any imputation of that sentiment in my words solely comes from your own psyche. I imagine the cult label has been thrown at you at times through your life. I'm just saying it’s probably a place in need of healing and growth.
Absolutely true. A site I hang out on has quite a few ex-sannyasins, and one of the first things they advised me to do was read The Guru Papers, a well-known book that is all about cults. Cult awareness has been growing a lot in American circles recently especially.
But I refuse to let my memories of events past be coloured by a modern way of looking at things which tries to make things fit neatly into a certain box. Osho’s following could certainly be called a worldwide movement, but it lacks a number of key characteristics typical of cults.
Jeroen
Re: What Aristotle Knew About Oligarchy That We Forgot
@person said:
I suppose I really don't know, but from my perspective its a too conspiratorial and fixed pie view. I doubt the secret society of oligarchs and their 4 dimensional psyops. And its too zero-sum a view of the economy, the pie can grow. It isn't a fixed amount only to be distributed fairly or not.
I think you may have miss the point. It’s not about shadowy figures behind the scenes, but about the visible, institutionalised ways that elites protect their wealth and power. And while the economy can grow, growth alone doesn’t solve the problem of inequality, which often deepens unless there’s conscious intervention to ensure that growth benefits society as a whole.
The current system is structured to favour profit over people's well-being. Economic growth can still occur, but the focus should shift toward ensuring that 'everyone' benefits, especially in sectors that are as critical as healthcare.
Shoshin1